No-offered summer associate. FML Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hello TLS,

I write to you because I am very f*cked. I received a no-offer from my firm today after my summer associate-ship ended. I was wondering what I can do to actually practice law again?

Any tips? Should I mass mail mid law firms? Aside from stating that I received a no offer, how should I respond to interviewers who ask this question? Is my career in law over? Anything I can do to alleviate this horrible situation? Have others been in this situation and still landed a decent job?

To answer questions I know are coming...

I was no offered due to work product issues. I summered at a vault firm in a primary market (I will not get more specific/out the firm). I go to a t14 school (MVPB) and have above median grades - top 1/3ish grades. I have a mixture of positive/negative reviews.

It would help if we could keep the "You're fucked for life... kill yourself..." talk to a minimum as I already feel like complete shit.

Thanks TLS.

[Tanicius]

Talk to your CDO. You will be okay. You will have a career and you will not be living on the street.

Would you be willing to tell us what they did not find satisfying about your work product? How much more were they hoping you would do?

[anon168]

Hello TLS,

I write to you because I am very f*cked. I received a no-offer from my firm today after my summer associate-ship ended. I was wondering what I can do to actually practice law again?

Any tips? Should I mass mail mid law firms? Aside from stating that I received a no offer, how should I respond to interviewers who ask this question? Is my career in law over? Anything I can do to alleviate this horrible situation? Have others been in this situation and still landed a decent job?

To answer questions I know are coming...

I was no offered due to work product issues. I summered at a vault firm in a primary market (I will not get more specific/out the firm). I go to a t14 school (MVPB) and have above median grades - top 1/3ish grades. I have a mixture of positive/negative reviews.

It would help if we could keep the "You're fucked for life... kill yourself..." talk to a minimum as I already feel like complete shit.

Thanks TLS.

Do everything you can right now to get a job, incl. mass e-mail, contacting alums, etc.

Then contact your SA firm and ask if they are willing to give you a "cold offer" - i.e., if a firm calls, they will say you got an offer (with the understanding that you did not receive such an offer).

Short of that, if the issue comes up, say something to the effect that during the summer you had expressed an interest in practicing in a different area of law, going to another market, etc., and wanted to allow the firm to use its allotment of available offer spots for those summers that did want to go back.

Trust me on this one, lots and lots of SAs have been no offered and have not only gone on to get jobs, but gone on to great careers in the law.

Good luck. PM me if you want to discuss further.

[Anonymous User]

Hello TLS,

I write to you because I am very f*cked. I received a no-offer from my firm today after my summer associate-ship ended. I was wondering what I can do to actually practice law again?

Any tips? Should I mass mail mid law firms? Aside from stating that I received a no offer, how should I respond to interviewers who ask this question? Is my career in law over? Anything I can do to alleviate this horrible situation? Have others been in this situation and still landed a decent job?

To answer questions I know are coming...

I was no offered due to work product issues. I summered at a vault firm in a primary market (I will not get more specific/out the firm). I go to a t14 school (MVPB) and have above median grades - top 1/3ish grades. I have a mixture of positive/negative reviews.

It would help if we could keep the "You're fucked for life... kill yourself..." talk to a minimum as I already feel like complete shit.

Thanks TLS.

This could be a blessing in disguise. Fuck biglaw. But yeah, it could be rough for while. Just keep it in perspective; your job is not your ultimate identity, and biglaw really does have a lot of negatives regardless of how cool so many ppl think it is.

[anon168]

.

[Anonymous User]

Wow thanks guys. Ya'll are more supportive than I imagined. I already talked to my firm and they said they don't do soft offers.

I have a further question: would a firm I interviewed call my old firm even if I tell them straight up I didn't get an offer? If they do, how much detail do they want?

I will call my career office on Monday and have started mass mailing? Are there any success stories ya'll have heard of?

Thanks once again guys.

[Anonymous User]

Hello TLS,

I write to you because I am very f*cked. I received a no-offer from my firm today after my summer associate-ship ended. I was wondering what I can do to actually practice law again?

Any tips? Should I mass mail mid law firms? Aside from stating that I received a no offer, how should I respond to interviewers who ask this question? Is my career in law over?

Did you build any strong relationships with anybody at the firm? Perhaps a mid-level or senior associate? Anybody you did particularly good work for? If yes, reach out to that individual and ask for advice. Ask if she would be willing to introduce you to people at other firms. Ask if she would be willing to serve as a reference.

I was no offered due to work product issues. I summered at a vault firm in a primary market (I will not get more specific/out the firm). I go to a t14 school (MVPB) and have above median grades - top 1/3ish grades. I have a mixture of positive/negative reviews.

Did you know the no-offer was coming or did it catch you by surprise? Did anybody say anything to you during the summer?

[Perseus_I]

Was this a firm with a massive summer class? Someone at a smaller NYC office told me recently that summer associates in the mega offices often don't even get performance reviews or they get them as just a formality. Was your office one like this? I am afraid of this sort of thing.

I am wondering if this is a reason to choose a satellite office.

Also, without outing the firm, was this a firm that typically gives out 100% offers, or some sketchy Baker Botts type firm that regularly no-offers half the class?

[ajaxconstructions]

Lathamed?

[Anonymous User]

Not one of the mega firms so can't speak to it. Work at a v firm in NY though. Basically f'ed up my last 1/3 of assignments due to out of my control personal issues. Firm does not give out 100% offers but is not one of those firms that only offers half.

[flcath]

Sorry, bro. No real advice, but my heart goes out to you. I hope (and think) you'll do fine regardless.

Could you tell us a little bit more about what led to it, for our edification? Like was your work shit pure shit (2-page memos when they should be 8 pages, flagrantly missed deadlines, "WTF" feedback from partner) or just moderately lazy? Was it just about work product, or were there personality issues?

As someone else asked, did you KNOW it was coming? Did you SUSPECT it coming? I assume you weren't blindsided?

[Anonymous User]

While I understand that people are nervous and want advice on what not to do (aka what I did), hopefully the responses will focus on what I can do to improve my situation instead of asking me what I did wrong.

However, since TLS is a give and take place, I'll answer the questions. My mistakes weren't too major but still mistakes: missed a deadline by a few hours, some typos and blue booking, and research accuracy issue for a weird ass assignment.

[Anonymous User]

Not completely blindsided, but somewhat because most of my mistakes came on my last few assignments, which meant I got those reviews very late in the game.

[Anonymous User]

My friend was no offered when his firm only gave offers to about half the SA's. However the firm generally liked him, he just didn't make the cut. He applied to other firms 3L year and when one 3L firm called his 2Lfirm firm, they gave him good reviews and said it was just a situation where they couldn't offer all the SA's. 3L firm hired him the next day. Maybe you can work it out where your 2L firm gives a good excuse for not hiring you other than "his work product sucked".

[Lieut Kaffee]

Hello TLS,

I write to you because I am very f*cked. I received a no-offer from my firm today after my summer associate-ship ended. I was wondering what I can do to actually practice law again?

Any tips? Should I mass mail mid law firms? Aside from stating that I received a no offer, how should I respond to interviewers who ask this question? Is my career in law over? Anything I can do to alleviate this horrible situation? Have others been in this situation and still landed a decent job?

To answer questions I know are coming...

I was no offered due to work product issues. I summered at a vault firm in a primary market (I will not get more specific/out the firm). I go to a t14 school (MVPB) and have above median grades - top 1/3ish grades. I have a mixture of positive/negative reviews.

It would help if we could keep the "You're fucked for life... kill yourself..." talk to a minimum as I already feel like complete shit.

Thanks TLS.

I'm in no position to give knowledgeable advice on this, but I would say don't rule out big law just yet. Do everything you can through 3L oci and with your career office. They will want to help you. With top third grades and big law experience, you may be a more attractive candidate than most 3Ls if you can somehow put the no-offer in a decent light.

Vigorously pursue clerkships at the same time. Sounds like you may have grades for a USDC clerkship somewhere, and coming out of a federal clerkship might be a nice chance for a redo.

[thesealocust]

Just as an FYI: For liability reasons, most employers will white wash your employment history. They'll give factual information (worked from X date until Y date, did not receive a fulltime offer) but will otherwise in almost all circumstances be tight-lipped, or even say positive things about you.

Basically, there's a 99.9% chance you don't have to worry about a prospective employer calling your summer firm and having the summer firm rant about the typos in your memos. The fact that you were no offered will be an obstacle and raise red flags on its own, but you're not going to have all of the dirty laundry around your neck while looking for a new job.

[keg411]

Not one of the mega firms so can't speak to it. Work at a v firm in NY though. Basically f'ed up my last 1/3 of assignments due to out of my control personal issues. Firm does not give out 100% offers but is not one of those firms that only offers half.

If you want to PM me and elaborate about this you can. I've been there with personal issues affecting work/school/life at times (though thankfully not this summer), and I feel really bad for you.

The only suggestion I'd make is to do a mass rush on clerkship stuff. Focus on district court, and state appellate courts (both intermediate and top).

[JusticeHarlan]

Sorry man, that's rough.

As for mass-mailing, someone posted this walk-through about how to use the free features on some website to generate a good list of mid or smaller sized firms that don't appear on NALP for mass-mailing purposes. I'd spam your home market and your school's home market right away.

[legends159]

Speak to your dean and other professors and ask them to make calls for you. Be persistent on this end while at the same time mass mailing and doing 3L OCI. Also apply to clerkship both dct all over the country and state supreme court. Be proactive and cast a huge net - if you think you've applied to enough places, apply to more until you start getting offers.

[Anonymous User]

I went through pretty much the same thing two years ago with the same grades and school rank. The next few months will be rough, but don't give up. It can all still work out. As others have said, you have a decent shot at a clerkship, so hustle and get your apps in ASAP (if you weren't planning on applying before, call your school's clerkship person Monday), then start targeting firms.

FWIW, I ended up landing a DCT clerkship late in the game and didn't have much trouble getting biglaw out of the clerkship. The clerkship was awesome, and my new firm is a much better fit for me than my summer firm for a lot of reasons, so getting no offered was almost a blessing in disguise. I spent most of my 3L year before I got the clerkship being miserable about the no offer and my lack of employment prospects; now I wish I hadn't wasted the energy.

[Anonymous User]

I went through pretty much the same thing two years ago with the same grades and school rank. The next few months will be rough, but don't give up. It can all still work out. As others have said, you have a decent shot at a clerkship, so hustle and get your apps in ASAP (if you weren't planning on applying before, call your school's clerkship person Monday), then start targeting firms.

FWIW, I ended up landing a DCT clerkship late in the game and didn't have much trouble getting biglaw out of the clerkship. The clerkship was awesome, and my new firm is a much better fit for me than my summer firm for a lot of reasons, so getting no offered was almost a blessing in disguise. I spent most of my 3L year before I got the clerkship being miserable about the no offer and my lack of employment prospects; now I wish I hadn't wasted the energy.

Mind sharing which firm no offered and why? Was it obvious that you would be no offered?

[Anonymous User]

I went through pretty much the same thing two years ago with the same grades and school rank. The next few months will be rough, but don't give up. It can all still work out. As others have said, you have a decent shot at a clerkship, so hustle and get your apps in ASAP (if you weren't planning on applying before, call your school's clerkship person Monday), then start targeting firms.

FWIW, I ended up landing a DCT clerkship late in the game and didn't have much trouble getting biglaw out of the clerkship. The clerkship was awesome, and my new firm is a much better fit for me than my summer firm for a lot of reasons, so getting no offered was almost a blessing in disguise. I spent most of my 3L year before I got the clerkship being miserable about the no offer and my lack of employment prospects; now I wish I hadn't wasted the energy.

Mind sharing which firm no offered and why? Was it obvious that you would be no offered?

"Fit." No.

[Anonymous User]

Don't worry, you're not the only one. I got no-offered, too.

[rad lulz]

Don't worry, you're not the only one. I got no-offered, too.

Reasoning?

[Anonymous User]

Another no offer.

I have a screener or two ahead. How to handle this?