T-14 students encroaching on secondary markets

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somewhatwayward
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Re: T-14 students encroaching on secondary markets

Postby somewhatwayward » Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:53 pm

Renne Walker wrote:I have no dog in this fight but there is one factor no one has touched on. Up until now the local mid-sized market hiring pool has been limited to neighboring law student applicants. Law firms that have rarely been approached by the likes of CCNP will finally have the chance to hire from these schools (and the T14 in general). IMO, many of these firms will jump on the opportunity. Due to ITE, the rulebook is changing dramatically.


um, i think multiple people in the thread have mentioned this

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Re: T-14 students encroaching on secondary markets

Postby BruceWayne » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:33 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:I think what Bruce Wayne is trying to say is that, in a secondary market, it is better to be summa cum laude (and maybe magna) at a regional school than non-latin honors from a T14 (that's not HYS). Generally, that makes sense.

Bruce, did you try to target a secondary market from your T14 and strike out? And then tried to target another, larger market but it was too late?


That's exactly what I'm saying. But a lot of top 14 people really don't seem to understand that there are competing with these people every time they interview with a secondary market firm, and that they are NOT considered equivalent to those people unless they are above the median at a top 14 (and often only when they are top 1/3 at that). Further they also seem to think that the top of the class at the top 14 all target NYC. THAT IS NOT the case. People aren't stupid. There are a lot of people at the top of the class at a top 14 (especially at the non CCN schools) that target secondary markets because they know that the salaries are simply incredible when you look at the COL in those markets, people last a lot longer in those firms so they earn the money for a longer period of time, you have a much greater shot at making partner, and often the respected home town firms in those markets open up essentially every attractive exit option available in that market. Not every top student at a top 14 wants the NYC lifestyle and average pay when factoring COL and loan payments considering the intensity of the job.


I don't want to reveal too much of my business but I struck out in my first choice secondary market where I have insanely strong ties to. I won't say anything beyond that in terms of what happened with me job wise. I will say that I know other people who had ties as strong as me and struck out in that market as well (one of whom was at the median GPA).

Anonymous User wrote:Atlanta certainly knows that T14 kids are ripe for the picking. There are 5 HYS kids at Alston this summer. Makes it a bit trickier for the rest of us plebian masses.


That's insane but honestly I'm not surprised. I think they mainly stay in the top 10-20 percent range at UVA and Duke.

Edit. LMAO check out the below--I hate to join that crowd but law school really is a bad idea right now!

http://www.alston.com/professionals/emi ... -hootkins/

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Re: T-14 students encroaching on secondary markets

Postby McQueen » Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:51 pm

I was told by a recruiter that “local ties” to the community is nowhere as critical as it once was. There was a time when T14ers would eagerly step-stone a firm to move up, but now with hiring in disarray the chances of jumping has greatly diminished.

I also asked about the T14ers competing against non-T14ers with better grades. I thought his analogy was interesting. Would a firm rather hire an Olympian who came in eighth place or someone who came in first place at the local parks and recreation competition? He did not answer his question but I think his implication was clear.

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Re: T-14 students encroaching on secondary markets

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:14 pm

McQueen wrote:I was told by a recruiter that “local ties” to the community is nowhere as critical as it once was. There was a time when T14ers would eagerly step-stone a firm to move up, but now with hiring in disarray the chances of jumping has greatly diminished.

I also asked about the T14ers competing against non-T14ers with better grades. I thought his analogy was interesting. Would a firm rather hire an Olympian who came in eighth place or someone who came in first place at the local parks and recreation competition? He did not answer his question but I think his implication was clear.



Firms prefer to hire winners.

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Re: T-14 students encroaching on secondary markets

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:17 pm

I also asked about the T14ers competing against non-T14ers with better grades. I thought his analogy was interesting. Would a firm rather hire an Olympian who came in eighth place or someone who came in first place at the local parks and recreation competition? He did not answer his question but I think his implication was clear.[/quote]

lol

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Re: T-14 students encroaching on secondary markets

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
McQueen wrote:I was told by a recruiter that “local ties” to the community is nowhere as critical as it once was. There was a time when T14ers would eagerly step-stone a firm to move up, but now with hiring in disarray the chances of jumping has greatly diminished.

I also asked about the T14ers competing against non-T14ers with better grades. I thought his analogy was interesting. Would a firm rather hire an Olympian who came in eighth place or someone who came in first place at the local parks and recreation competition? He did not answer his question but I think his implication was clear.



Firms prefer to hire winners.

+1. Exactly, the winners made it to the T14. I do believe that was the recruiter’s point.

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Re: T-14 students encroaching on secondary markets

Postby SemperLegal » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
McQueen wrote:I was told by a recruiter that “local ties” to the community is nowhere as critical as it once was. There was a time when T14ers would eagerly step-stone a firm to move up, but now with hiring in disarray the chances of jumping has greatly diminished.

I also asked about the T14ers competing against non-T14ers with better grades. I thought his analogy was interesting. Would a firm rather hire an Olympian who came in eighth place or someone who came in first place at the local parks and recreation competition? He did not answer his question but I think his implication was clear.



Firms prefer to hire winners.

+1. Exactly, the winners made it to the T14. I do believe that was the recruiter’s point.


No winner's are the ones who give our employers business. We are just people who post anonymously on the internet to protect anonymous internet personas from retribution when we beg for the table scraps from the winner's lap dogs.

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Re: T-14 students encroaching on secondary markets

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:53 pm

Idk about the smaller secondary markets (Indy, Pittsburgh, etc.) but I think there is growing awareness at my HYS of how much better life could be in the major secondary markets and less people are dead set on NYC and DC. Im a mediocre student at one of HS with a solid resume and my interviews in a major secondary market have been shockingly easy. Basically, we do a 5 minute walk-through of my resume and the rest of the interview is some variation of "If we offered you would you seriously come here?" and "Why aren't you going to NYC." All this to say, expect more HYS/T14 people to be coming to a secondary market near you.

Also.. what is with this "encroach" thing?? Like do you think certain schools have rights to certain markets?

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Re: T-14 students encroaching on secondary markets

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Idk about the smaller secondary markets (Indy, Pittsburgh, etc.) but I think there is growing awareness at my HYS of how much better life could be in the major secondary markets and less people are dead set on NYC and DC. Im a mediocre student at one of HS with a solid resume and my interviews in a major secondary market have been shockingly easy. Basically, we do a 5 minute walk-through of my resume and the rest of the interview is some variation of "If we offered you would you seriously come here?" and "Why aren't you going to NYC." All this to say, expect more HYS/T14 people to be coming to a secondary market near you.

Also.. what is with this "encroach" thing?? Like do you think certain schools have rights to certain markets?



OP here. What I mean by encroaching is upsetting the natural order of firm recruitment. Get your prestigious smarts out of MY market.

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Re: T-14 students encroaching on secondary markets

Postby sunynp » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Idk about the smaller secondary markets (Indy, Pittsburgh, etc.) but I think there is growing awareness at my HYS of how much better life could be in the major secondary markets and less people are dead set on NYC and DC. Im a mediocre student at one of HS with a solid resume and my interviews in a major secondary market have been shockingly easy. Basically, we do a 5 minute walk-through of my resume and the rest of the interview is some variation of "If we offered you would you seriously come here?" and "Why aren't you going to NYC." All this to say, expect more HYS/T14 people to be coming to a secondary market near you.

Also.. what is with this "encroach" thing?? Like do you think certain schools have rights to certain markets?



OP here. What I mean by encroaching is upsetting the natural order of firm recruitment. Get your prestigious smarts out of MY market.


ITE ended the "natural order" but I am not sure that really existed. T14 grads have always been going home, though maybe not out of necessity.

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Re: T-14 students encroaching on secondary markets

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:16 pm

McQueen wrote:I was told by a recruiter that “local ties” to the community is nowhere as critical as it once was. There was a time when T14ers would eagerly step-stone a firm to move up, but now with hiring in disarray the chances of jumping has greatly diminished.

I also asked about the T14ers competing against non-T14ers with better grades. I thought his analogy was interesting. Would a firm rather hire an Olympian who came in eighth place or someone who came in first place at the local parks and recreation competition? He did not answer his question but I think his implication was clear.


This is an insanely douchey and totally untrue thing to say. If the candidates are someone who is middle of pack at lower T14 versus top 5% at a T1 within the given region, the latter person gets the job almost every time. A better analogy would be would a racing company rather hire a driver who purchased a ferrari and was median at driving it or another person who purchased a honda accord and was the best at driving it, and the answer is the latter.

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Re: T-14 students encroaching on secondary markets

Postby wjs98 » Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
McQueen wrote:I was told by a recruiter that “local ties” to the community is nowhere as critical as it once was. There was a time when T14ers would eagerly step-stone a firm to move up, but now with hiring in disarray the chances of jumping has greatly diminished.

I also asked about the T14ers competing against non-T14ers with better grades. I thought his analogy was interesting. Would a firm rather hire an Olympian who came in eighth place or someone who came in first place at the local parks and recreation competition? He did not answer his question but I think his implication was clear.


This is an insanely douchey and totally untrue thing to say. If the candidates are someone who is middle of pack at lower T14 versus top 5% at a T1 within the given region, the latter person gets the job almost every time. A better analogy would be would a racing company rather hire a driver who purchased a ferrari and was median at driving it or another person who purchased a honda accord and was the best at driving it, and the answer is the latter.


Terrible analogy. The point of the olympic/local park analogy is that you have to qualify among the best just to be at the olympics. You don't have to do that to buy a ferrari.

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Re: T-14 students encroaching on secondary markets

Postby BruceWayne » Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:28 pm

wjs98 wrote:Terrible analogy. The point of the olympic/local park analogy is that you have to qualify among the best just to be at the olympics. You don't have to do that to buy a ferrari.


Bottom line, regardless of the analogies, is that you're wrong. Secondary markets, by and large, prefer top of the class regional/local students over median and below top 14 excluding HYS. The hiring charts reflect that.

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Re: T-14 students encroaching on secondary markets

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:41 pm

wjs98 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
McQueen wrote:I was told by a recruiter that “local ties” to the community is nowhere as critical as it once was. There was a time when T14ers would eagerly step-stone a firm to move up, but now with hiring in disarray the chances of jumping has greatly diminished.

I also asked about the T14ers competing against non-T14ers with better grades. I thought his analogy was interesting. Would a firm rather hire an Olympian who came in eighth place or someone who came in first place at the local parks and recreation competition? He did not answer his question but I think his implication was clear.


This is an insanely douchey and totally untrue thing to say. If the candidates are someone who is middle of pack at lower T14 versus top 5% at a T1 within the given region, the latter person gets the job almost every time. A better analogy would be would a racing company rather hire a driver who purchased a ferrari and was median at driving it or another person who purchased a honda accord and was the best at driving it, and the answer is the latter.


Terrible analogy. The point of the olympic/local park analogy is that you have to qualify among the best just to be at the olympics. You don't have to do that to buy a ferrari.


LOL it is much better than olympic/local park. The point is that no one with the ability to be in the olympics would compete in a local park competition, but many people who could attend T14 (i.e. buy a ferrari) might choose to attend a T1 for free or next to nothing (buy an accord), since at the end of the day the issue is how good you are at driving (how well you perform in law school). No one disputes that there are more people at a T1 than a T14 with bad outcomes, but many TLSers fail to realize that being top of a T1 with no debt is way better than T14 with the debt, since both have a very good chance at big law (assuming the T1 is not in a hugely over saturated legal market like NYC, chicago, L.A., SF).

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Re: T-14 students encroaching on secondary markets

Postby MVPBDCNG_Anon » Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:57 pm

T14 KIDS, COMIN' 2 UR MARKET, STEALING UR JERBS, WATZ A TTT50 KID TO DO?!?

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Re: T-14 students encroaching on secondary markets

Postby BruceWayne » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:LOL it is much better than olympic/local park. The point is that no one with the ability to be in the olympics would compete in a local park competition, but many people who could attend T14 (i.e. buy a ferrari) might choose to attend a T1 for free or next to nothing (buy an accord), since at the end of the day the issue is how good you are at driving (how well you perform in law school). No one disputes that there are more people at a T1 than a T14 with bad outcomes, but many TLSers fail to realize that being top of a T1 with no debt is way better than T14 with the debt, since both have a very good chance at big law (assuming the T1 is not in a hugely over saturated legal market like NYC, chicago, L.A., SF).


Exactly. Top 10 percent and law review at UGA, Emory, UNC, SMU, Houston, Fordham, Miami, Hastings, Bama, etc. with no debt are in an awesome position. Being in that position is WAY better than being median or below at a non HYS top 14 with sticker debt (hell even without sticker debt in a lot of ways).

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Re: T-14 students encroaching on secondary markets

Postby sunynp » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:30 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:LOL it is much better than olympic/local park. The point is that no one with the ability to be in the olympics would compete in a local park competition, but many people who could attend T14 (i.e. buy a ferrari) might choose to attend a T1 for free or next to nothing (buy an accord), since at the end of the day the issue is how good you are at driving (how well you perform in law school). No one disputes that there are more people at a T1 than a T14 with bad outcomes, but many TLSers fail to realize that being top of a T1 with no debt is way better than T14 with the debt, since both have a very good chance at big law (assuming the T1 is not in a hugely over saturated legal market like NYC, chicago, L.A., SF).


Exactly. Top 10 percent and law review at UGA, Emory, UNC, SMU, Houston, Fordham, Miami, Hastings, Bama, etc. with no debt are in an awesome position. Being in that position is WAY better than being median or below at a non HYS top 14 with sticker debt (hell even without sticker debt in a lot of ways).


See the problem with law school is that you can't really know how well you are going to do until you take exams. The curve is such a bitch. If people could know they would be top 10% just from brains and hard work, they would feel better about going to the local T1. Because almost no one can really know where they will end up in the class, people hedge by going to the T14. The idea is that median at T14 will probably get you a job somewhere, whereas median at T1 may get you unemployed.

Law school is so screwed up in so many different ways.

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Re: T-14 students encroaching on secondary markets

Postby BruceWayne » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:41 pm

sunynp wrote:
See the problem with law school is that you can't really know how well you are going to do until you take exams. The curve is such a bitch. If people could know they would be top 10% just from brains and hard work, they would feel better about going to the local T1. Because almost no one can really know where they will end up in the class, people hedge by going to the T14. The idea is that median at T14 will probably get you a job somewhere, whereas median at T1 may get you unemployed.

Law school is so screwed up in so many different ways.



Realistically the truth is that law school, because of the crazy hiring system that practically penalizes you for your entire career based on a set of 3-4 hour typing exams is NOT a good idea right now.

BUT what I think people need to realize is that really, what you are saying in the bolded is true, but what it means is that going sticker top 14 over free or close to it at the respectable local/regional school is NOT a hands down better decision. I personally think that going to the local regional for close to free or free is the better idea because these firms simply aren't gong that deep into the class even at the top 14. Your chances of getting the sort of GPA at a top 14 that many of these secondary market firms want really aren't significantly different than getting top 10 percent at a top 14. I'm sorry I just don't view having to land top 1/3 or even above median at Michigan as being any better than having to land top 10 percent at Ohio State. They both sound like pretty crappy odds. I might as well take the choice that won't cost me anything if I miss out.

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Re: T-14 students encroaching on secondary markets

Postby homestyle28 » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:43 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:LOL it is much better than olympic/local park. The point is that no one with the ability to be in the olympics would compete in a local park competition, but many people who could attend T14 (i.e. buy a ferrari) might choose to attend a T1 for free or next to nothing (buy an accord), since at the end of the day the issue is how good you are at driving (how well you perform in law school). No one disputes that there are more people at a T1 than a T14 with bad outcomes, but many TLSers fail to realize that being top of a T1 with no debt is way better than T14 with the debt, since both have a very good chance at big law (assuming the T1 is not in a hugely over saturated legal market like NYC, chicago, L.A., SF).


Exactly. Top 10 percent and law review at UGA, Emory, UNC, SMU, Houston, Fordham, Miami, Hastings, Bama, etc. with no debt are in an awesome position. Being in that position is WAY better than being median or below at a non HYS top 14 with sticker debt (hell even without sticker debt in a lot of ways).


Meh. Maybe (but only maybe) for secondary markets. Being median at a t-14 means you can interview with firms across the country and be taken seriously. Choosing the regional tier 1 means rolling the dice on your chances of being top 10% and LR. While in all likelihood the kid who gets the full ride at a regional has better than 10% chances of being in the top of the class, it's still a huge gamble.

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Re: T-14 students encroaching on secondary markets

Postby BruceWayne » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:47 pm

homestyle28 wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:LOL it is much better than olympic/local park. The point is that no one with the ability to be in the olympics would compete in a local park competition, but many people who could attend T14 (i.e. buy a ferrari) might choose to attend a T1 for free or next to nothing (buy an accord), since at the end of the day the issue is how good you are at driving (how well you perform in law school). No one disputes that there are more people at a T1 than a T14 with bad outcomes, but many TLSers fail to realize that being top of a T1 with no debt is way better than T14 with the debt, since both have a very good chance at big law (assuming the T1 is not in a hugely over saturated legal market like NYC, chicago, L.A., SF).


Exactly. Top 10 percent and law review at UGA, Emory, UNC, SMU, Houston, Fordham, Miami, Hastings, Bama, etc. with no debt are in an awesome position. Being in that position is WAY better than being median or below at a non HYS top 14 with sticker debt (hell even without sticker debt in a lot of ways).


Meh. Maybe (but only maybe) for secondary markets. Being median at a t-14 means you can interview with firms across the country and be taken seriously. Choosing the regional tier 1 means rolling the dice on your chances of being top 10% and LR. While in all likelihood the kid who gets the full ride at a regional has better than 10% chances of being in the top of the class, it's still a huge gamble.


LOL yeah sure, if by "across the country" you mean from Sugar Hill to the Financial District. I hate to break this to you, but unless you have really high grades (and now I am talking top 10 percent) at a top 14 (excluding HYS) you can't "apply to jobs all across the country" and expect to get a job offer. Outside of HYS the top 14 are regional for people at the median and below other than where they have ties and NYC. Someone from DC with a 3.3 at Penn is dreaming if they think they have a good shot at a firm job in Dallas, San Francisco, Atlanta, Boston, or Chicago.

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Re: T-14 students encroaching on secondary markets

Postby homestyle28 » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:53 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:LOL it is much better than olympic/local park. The point is that no one with the ability to be in the olympics would compete in a local park competition, but many people who could attend T14 (i.e. buy a ferrari) might choose to attend a T1 for free or next to nothing (buy an accord), since at the end of the day the issue is how good you are at driving (how well you perform in law school). No one disputes that there are more people at a T1 than a T14 with bad outcomes, but many TLSers fail to realize that being top of a T1 with no debt is way better than T14 with the debt, since both have a very good chance at big law (assuming the T1 is not in a hugely over saturated legal market like NYC, chicago, L.A., SF).


Exactly. Top 10 percent and law review at UGA, Emory, UNC, SMU, Houston, Fordham, Miami, Hastings, Bama, etc. with no debt are in an awesome position. Being in that position is WAY better than being median or below at a non HYS top 14 with sticker debt (hell even without sticker debt in a lot of ways).


Meh. Maybe (but only maybe) for secondary markets. Being median at a t-14 means you can interview with firms across the country and be taken seriously. Choosing the regional tier 1 means rolling the dice on your chances of being top 10% and LR. While in all likelihood the kid who gets the full ride at a regional has better than 10% chances of being in the top of the class, it's still a huge gamble.


LOL yeah sure, if by "across the country" you mean from Sugar Hill to the Financial District. I hate to break this to you, but unless you have really high grades (and now I am talking top 10 percent) at a top 14 (excluding HYS) you can't "apply to jobs all across the country" and expect to get a job offer. Outside of HYS the top 14 are regional for people at the median and below other than where they have ties and NYC. Someone from DC with a 3.3 at Penn is dreaming if they think they have a good shot at a firm job in Dallas, San Francisco, Atlanta, Boston, or Chicago.


Now that I think about you're right, nobody at median at NU gets a job anywhere but Chicago. my mistake.

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Re: T-14 students encroaching on secondary markets

Postby McQueen » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:01 pm

sunynp wrote:See the problem with law school is that you can't really know how well you are going to do until you take exams. The curve is such a bitch. If people could know they would be top 10% just from brains and hard work, they would feel better about going to the local T1. Because almost no one can really know where they will end up in the class, people hedge by going to the T14. The idea is that median at T14 will probably get you a job somewhere, whereas median at T1 may get you unemployed.

Law school is so screwed up in so many different ways.

+1. Finally, one of the few people on TLS not gulping kool aid from the keg.

To an earlier poster suggesting no debt at schools like Emory, Fordham, Miami, etc., Ask those no-debt students to raise their hand. . . then enjoy gawking at a blank screen. Those schools are T14 expen$ive.

As far as the analogy, the one I noted was from a recruiter. I took it to mean that firms think more highly of T14 median against 4.0/175 classmates versus top 10 against 3.4/160 classmates. Simple enough?

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Re: T-14 students encroaching on secondary markets

Postby homestyle28 » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:09 pm

To inject a few facts: from NU's 2011 OCI here's some GPA's that got callbacks in secondary markets (Median at NU is 3.3ish). The lesson (I think) is that it varies by firm, but it looks to me that a below median bottom t-14er can get CBs in secondary markets. They will, of course, not dominate the secondary market, nor will they displace all the top 10% are regional schools, but they also won't get owned either.

Ohio:
Dinsmore - 3.26 got a CB

MN
Dorsey - 3.31 got a CB

Boston
Edwards Wildman 3.2 got a CB

Indiana
Faegre - 3.26 got a CB

Wisconsin
Reinhart Boerner - 3.21 got a CB

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Re: T-14 students encroaching on secondary markets

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:54 pm

McQueen wrote:To an earlier poster suggesting no debt at schools like Emory, Fordham, Miami, etc., Ask those no-debt students to raise their hand. . . then enjoy gawking at a blank screen. Those schools are T14 expen$ive.




Sup [*hand raised*]? I attend one of the schools BW listed, top 10% and LR; and I am debt-free. I just wrapped up a SA position at what is widely considered one of the top two firms in my market. Informally, I was told to expect an offer within the next two weeks. If the offer comes through I think I'll be in really good shape.

As far as the analogy, the one I noted was from a recruiter. I took it to mean that firms think more highly of T14 median against 4.0/175 classmates versus top 10 against 3.4/160 classmates. Simple enough?


First and foremost, you have to understand that recruiters are there to make you feel good. The recruiter made an open-ended statement and you've drawn a conclusion from that statement that reinforces your bias. Perhaps you are drawing the right conclusion, but I think you are overconfident about this point. Your understanding is based on a combination of what was suggested to you and what you want to believe. BW's understanding is based on his experience.

Generally speaking, I tend to agree with BW. The SA's at my firm were a mix of every T14 & UT/Vandy + ~8-10 regional schools. My firm had no shortage of applicants and easily could have filled its entire class with T14/UT/Vandy students if it so desired.

homestyle28 wrote:To inject a few facts: from NU's 2011 OCI here's some GPA's that got callbacks in secondary markets (Median at NU is 3.3ish). The lesson (I think) is that it varies by firm, but it looks to me that a below median bottom t-14er can get CBs in secondary markets. They will, of course, not dominate the secondary market, nor will they displace all the top 10% are regional schools, but they also won't get owned either.


There's a difference between a CB and an Offer. Doing a quick search of the attorney profiles at those firms and looking for NU SOL JDs who are associates:

Ohio:
Dinsmore - 0 NU SOL Associates

MN
Dorsey - 2 NU SOL Associates; c/o 2008 graduated with latin honors, c/o 2002 does not list honors.

Boston
Edwards Wildman - 0 NU SOL Associates in Boston office, 1 firm-wide--in Chicago

Indiana
Faegre - 1 NU SOL Associate firm-wide located in Indiana, c/o 2004. No academic honors from NU SOL listed other than "Dean's List." This firm is kind of surprising b/c they have 10+ partners/counsel from NU SOL.

Wisconsin
Reinhart Boerner - 2 Associates from NU SOL. Unfortunately, their bios don't list graduation years, neither graduated with latin honors.

Obviously, this doesn't prove anything other than NU SOL grads are not ending up at these firms. Perhaps NU students don't want to work at these firms and they are declining offers?

This thread from last year about the NU/UVA/GULC/Duke Texas Interview Program seems to support BW's theory.

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homestyle28
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Re: T-14 students encroaching on secondary markets

Postby homestyle28 » Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:04 pm

There's a difference between a CB and an Offer.

Obviously, this doesn't prove anything other than NU SOL grads are not ending up at these firms. Perhaps NU students don't want to work at these firms and they are declining offers?

This thread from last year about the NU/UVA/GULC/Duke Texas Interview Program seems to support BW's theory.


Mostly I agree with this. Hard to know if the CBs in secondarys were fallback positions and discarded, or failures. A (very quick search) of some of the firms coming this year to NU turns up one NU associate, he had no honors listed.

Not sure TX compares to other secondary markets as its famously insular, but I wouldn't argue that some below median NUer w/no ties is going to fare well in any non-NYC market.

I think BW was overstating things a bit in almost every post he made ITT. But, as I have Ohio as a Secondary market on my bidlist I might know better in a few weeks.




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