Received Small Firm Offer - Taking Questions

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 273158
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Received Small Firm Offer - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:33 am

I know it's not the typical TLS thread, but for those of you like me from T2's or below (in a regional market) landing at a small firm is much more realistic biglaw.

I received an offer for after graduation working at a smallish firm (8-15 attorneys), and will take questions about how I went about doing this if anyone has any.

User avatar
jeeptiger09
Posts: 323
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:15 pm

Re: Received Small Firm Offer - Taking Questions

Postby jeeptiger09 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:35 am

School/stats/region (or market if you're so inclined)/type of firm/what you did during summers.

Thanks

target
Posts: 688
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:40 pm

Re: Received Small Firm Offer - Taking Questions

Postby target » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:36 am

any ties to the region where the firm is?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273158
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Received Small Firm Offer - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:56 am

Pay range, work hours, sophistication of practice, competition to get a job at such a firm.

User avatar
TTH
Posts: 10378
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 1:14 am

Re: Received Small Firm Offer - Taking Questions

Postby TTH » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:55 pm

When did you get the offer? While you were still clerking or after you left? If the latter, how long after?

User avatar
IHeartPhilly
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:19 pm

Re: Received Small Firm Offer - Taking Questions

Postby IHeartPhilly » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:05 pm

Tag

Anonymous User
Posts: 273158
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Received Small Firm Offer - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:31 pm

School is a T2 in the midwest. Stats--top 15%, LR. The firm does a variety of things--mainly business litigation, real estate, tax, and estate planning. Fairly sophisticated, all contextual on that front though.

I grew up in the market where the firm is located, so yes. Substantial ties.

Pay range will be typical for a small firm in a regional market, 50-70k. Hours fairly typical as well, not biglaw crazy but a decent workload.

I got the offer while I was (and am still) clerking.

Edit for questions I didn't see:

(1) competition - it's tough to say. In this economy just about every respectable firm gets hit with a good amount of resumes. Certainly not top-of-the-line competitive, but wasn't easy either.

(2) As a clerk I mainly do research and write memos, sometimes those memos get incorporated into briefs (both appellate and at the trial level). Also have been able to work on a couple of smaller M&A deals. Some motion drafting, but not much.

swimmer11
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:54 pm

Re: Received Small Firm Offer - Taking Questions

Postby swimmer11 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:37 pm

Did you attempt OCI or mass mail large or mid-sized firms? Or you were inclined for small law from the get-go?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273158
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Received Small Firm Offer - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:41 pm

swimmer11 wrote:Did you attempt OCI or mass mail large or mid-sized firms? Or you were inclined for small law from the get-go?


Attempted OCI and mass-mail. Had interviews but got shut out in terms of offers.

OCI was kind of a joke at my school, I can name on one hand the number of kids that got jobs (that I know of at least, but I know most of those on LR).

djoshi
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:58 pm

Re: Received Small Firm Offer - Taking Questions

Postby djoshi » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:42 pm

How much could you be earning at this firm in 3-5 years?

swimmer11
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:54 pm

Re: Received Small Firm Offer - Taking Questions

Postby swimmer11 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:45 pm

Is the small firm located in a large, medium, or small city?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273158
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Received Small Firm Offer - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:46 pm

djoshi wrote:How much could you be earning at this firm in 3-5 years?


Firm is at least partially based on the "eat what you kill" system. Depends in large part on how many clients I can bring in.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273158
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Received Small Firm Offer - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:47 pm

swimmer11 wrote:Is the small firm located in a large, medium, or small city?


Medium sized city. Not Chicago, but one of the bigger cities in the midwest.

User avatar
spleenworship
Posts: 4421
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: Received Small Firm Offer - Taking Questions

Postby spleenworship » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:51 pm

tagging

OP's school/OCI/work situation sound very similar to mine. I'm finding this thread credible and helpful.


OP: what do you think got you the offer from your firm? I know in my market at least half the clerks end up getting no-offered from their small firm.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273158
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Received Small Firm Offer - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:07 pm

spleenworship wrote:tagging

OP's school/OCI/work situation sound very similar to mine. I'm finding this thread credible and helpful.


OP: what do you think got you the offer from your firm? I know in my market at least half the clerks end up getting no-offered from their small firm.


I think most of the standard advice that applies to big firms applies to small firms as well. Be professional, treat people with respect, get along with everyone, etc. This probably applies even more to small offices because they tend to more close-knit. There's no getting away from someone you don't like; it's definitely important to stay on everyone's good side.

Also, this should probably go without saying, but you need to turn in solid work product. If writing a memo, make sure its accurate and crisp. No typos, no mistakes on what the law is. Well-written documents should be norm. I also found it helpful to really go the extra mile. Attorneys in small firms don't have the same kind of support staff as you'd find in a big firm; try as hard as you can to make their life easy. For me this usually meant attaching the cases/statutes/secondary sources I relied on at a minimum. If possible, I'd maybe make a small recommendation about how I thought my work fit in with the larger case (emphasis on maybe here, and be careful. There's a good chance you don't know what you're talking about, myself included, and you don't want to come off as arrogant. Sometimes I thought it was a nice touch though).

You need to convince the attorneys that you're a good fit and deserve a chance. An offer definitely isn't assumed like it is at most biglaw shops.

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: Received Small Firm Offer - Taking Questions

Postby rad lulz » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
djoshi wrote:How much could you be earning at this firm in 3-5 years?


Firm is at least partially based on the "eat what you kill" system. Depends in large part on how many clients I can bring in.

Do you find that this arrangement encourages a hoarding of work or attorneys attempting to protect individual fiefs?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273158
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Received Small Firm Offer - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:42 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
djoshi wrote:How much could you be earning at this firm in 3-5 years?


Firm is at least partially based on the "eat what you kill" system. Depends in large part on how many clients I can bring in.

Do you find that this arrangement encourages a hoarding of work or attorneys attempting to protect individual fiefs?


I haven't noticed that. It could be the case between partners, though I have noticed several times where work has either been split or handed off between them.

I don't think the system affects associates very much, if at all, because there is a fairly well-defined track for the type of responsibility that will be handled. But I can't talk very specifically about how the system affects the firm, and will affect me, because I only have a surface level understanding of it, to be honest.

User avatar
TTH
Posts: 10378
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 1:14 am

Re: Received Small Firm Offer - Taking Questions

Postby TTH » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:58 pm

Did you or are you planning to try to negotiate your salary offer? If so, what approach did you take/are you taking?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273158
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Received Small Firm Offer - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:07 pm

TTH wrote:Did you or are you planning to try to negotiate your salary offer? If so, what approach did you take/are you taking?


Really unsure about this, but something I'm thinking about. I haven't received my formal offer yet, was told it was coming later this week, so I don't have anything to negotiate yet.

I'm pretty hesitant to try to negotiate though, unless I think the offer is way lower than it should be. I just don't think someone in my spot has much leverage, and that's an understatement.

I'm probably going to talk to a couple of the older attorneys I know (outside of my firm) for advice. If anyone here has done this it'd be great to get some advice through this thread as well.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273158
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Received Small Firm Offer - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:51 pm

OP here. There wasn't a ton of interest in this thread when I posted awhile back, but I received my formal offer yesterday and can be a bit more specific about things if anyone has any other questions. Also, this is around the time people start realizing they're going to strike out, so may be more relevant to some this time around.

User avatar
spleenworship
Posts: 4421
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: Received Small Firm Offer - Taking Questions

Postby spleenworship » Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. There wasn't a ton of interest in this thread when I posted awhile back, but I received my formal offer yesterday and can be a bit more specific about things if anyone has any other questions. Also, this is around the time people start realizing they're going to strike out, so may be more relevant to some this time around.


Did you negotiate? If so, how? If not, why not?

User avatar
TTH
Posts: 10378
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 1:14 am

Re: Received Small Firm Offer - Taking Questions

Postby TTH » Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. There wasn't a ton of interest in this thread when I posted awhile back, but I received my formal offer yesterday and can be a bit more specific about things if anyone has any other questions. Also, this is around the time people start realizing they're going to strike out, so may be more relevant to some this time around.


Where was the salary in relation to whatever "market" is for your firm's market?

ETA: Also, congratulations!




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.