V50 Offer v. Clerking

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Anonymous User
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V50 Offer v. Clerking

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:33 pm

Thanks for the suggestions!
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: V50 Offer v. Clerking

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:36 pm

biglaw

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thesealocust
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Re: V50 Offer v. Clerking

Postby thesealocust » Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:36 pm

Take the job offer then look for clerkships. If and only if you get a clerkship you can negotiate with your firm, but generally you'll get hired back after the clerkship and possibly with a bonus. If you don't get the clerkship, you've already accepted the job.

There's really no choice to be made right now - the right move is accepting the firm job either way. It's totally fine to clerkship hunt with an accepted law firm offer.

target
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Re: V50 Offer v. Clerking

Postby target » Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:38 pm

Is any of the professors who encourage you clerk willing to make a call for you? In other words, what is the likelihood of you getting a clerkship?

ETA: answer my question if you want to, but thesealocust's post is where I was going with.

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Flips88
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Re: V50 Offer v. Clerking

Postby Flips88 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:40 pm

there's a growing trend of people working a couple years and clerking so that door doesn't close by taking the firm.

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Re: V50 Offer v. Clerking

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:40 pm

@ Target: At least 3 professors would be willing to make calls, along with the current and former clerks for the judges. I would wager that my chances of a clerkship are >75%, though it would only be a lower-level federal clerkship (no Courts of Appeal, etc.).

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Judge Philip Banks
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Re: V50 Offer v. Clerking

Postby Judge Philip Banks » Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:41 pm

thesealocust wrote:Take the job offer then look for clerkships. If and only if you get a clerkship you can negotiate with your firm, but generally you'll get hired back after the clerkship and possibly with a bonus. If you don't get the clerkship, you've already accepted the job.

There's really no choice to be made right now - the right move is accepting the firm job either way. It's totally fine to clerkship hunt with an accepted law firm offer.

Sound advice.

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Re: V50 Offer v. Clerking

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:04 pm

(1) What is your deadline for accepting the firm offer? It should be reasonable for you to ask until after the law clerk hiring plan has run to accept. You should be applying now and on plan for the clerkships -- you should know quickly.

(2) I would only turn down the V50 offer for an A3 judge or a bankruptcy judge in a busy/relevant location. Magistrate judges do important work and give their clerks great experiences, but I'm not sure if the overall cost is worth it.
(3) That said, it will be an uphill battle for you to get an A3 clerkships. Top 10% at a T14 is (probably) guaranteed an A3 clerkship if they apply very, very broadly. At a T75, I'd be surprised if anyone outside the top 5 people in the class (not percent) have anywhere near a decent chance.

(4) I hope you know that federal clerks make better than $40k. Right now, a new grad law clerk (JSP-11) will make between $57,408 (rest of US) and $67,963 (SF/Bay area). Yeah, it's not big law salary, but its not that bad of a hit either.

Final thought, what's the general range of districts are you looking at (e.g., SDNY,EDNY, CDCA, NDCA, EDVA versus DWyo, other rural areas)?

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Re: V50 Offer v. Clerking

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:(1) What is your deadline for accepting the firm offer? It should be reasonable for you to ask until after the law clerk hiring plan has run to accept. You should be applying now and on plan for the clerkships -- you should know quickly.

It's the regular NALP deadline. As I mentioned, I don't intend to even bother applying for a clerkship unless I'm certain that I would accept it if offered. That's why I'm not applying now (thought I have LORs and all that stuff ready to go from profs if I do decide to apply.

(2) I would only turn down the V50 offer for an A3 judge or a bankruptcy judge in a busy/relevant location. Magistrate judges do important work and give their clerks great experiences, but I'm not sure if the overall cost is worth it.

I would do the same. Magistrate is out, but I just listed it to cover it as a possibility.

(3) That said, it will be an uphill battle for you to get an A3 clerkships. Top 10% at a T14 is (probably) guaranteed an A3 clerkship if they apply very, very broadly. At a T75, I'd be surprised if anyone outside the top 5 people in the class (not percent) have anywhere near a decent chance.

(4) I hope you know that federal clerks make better than $40k. Right now, a new grad law clerk (JSP-11) will make between $57,408 (rest of US) and $67,963 (SF/Bay area). Yeah, it's not big law salary, but its not that bad of a hit either.

I'm aware of the salary. I was just exaggerating., but ~$60k still pales in comparison to twice that amount at the V50.

Final thought, what's the general range of districts are you looking at (e.g., SDNY,EDNY, CDCA, NDCA, EDVA versus DWyo, other rural areas)?

Rural area (though not nearly as rural as Wyoming) -- good bankruptcy courts in particular.

target
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Re: V50 Offer v. Clerking

Postby target » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:16 pm

haha, that was a quick edit. :wink:

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Re: V50 Offer v. Clerking

Postby anon168 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:18 pm

If you can get a DCt. clerkship or better, then clerk. NO brainer.

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Re: V50 Offer v. Clerking

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:20 pm

anon168 wrote:If you can get a DCt. clerkship or better, then clerk. NO brainer.


Any particular reason for that?

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Re: V50 Offer v. Clerking

Postby anon168 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
anon168 wrote:If you can get a DCt. clerkship or better, then clerk. NO brainer.


Any particular reason for that?


Assuming your choice comes down to (1) take job or (2) clerk and then look for a new job, your best bet is (2) because you have to think long-term, esp. if OP wants to teach down the line.

A clerkship (again, DCt or better) will open more doors later in life than just working at a firm. It never hurts to know one extra federal judge, and your co-clerk will likely be your contemporary and someone in position of power to help you down the line in your career.

omg clay aiken !
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Re: V50 Offer v. Clerking

Postby omg clay aiken ! » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:26 pm

might be worth clerking if it's a district judge. definitely not if magistrate. bankruptcy only worth it if it's relevant to your interests/career

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Re: V50 Offer v. Clerking

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:(1) What is your deadline for accepting the firm offer? It should be reasonable for you to ask until after the law clerk hiring plan has run to accept. You should be applying now and on plan for the clerkships -- you should know quickly.

It's the regular NALP deadline. As I mentioned, I don't intend to even bother applying for a clerkship unless I'm certain that I would accept it if offered. That's why I'm not applying now (thought I have LORs and all that stuff ready to go from profs if I do decide to apply.

(2) I would only turn down the V50 offer for an A3 judge or a bankruptcy judge in a busy/relevant location. Magistrate judges do important work and give their clerks great experiences, but I'm not sure if the overall cost is worth it.

I would do the same. Magistrate is out, but I just listed it to cover it as a possibility.

(3) That said, it will be an uphill battle for you to get an A3 clerkships. Top 10% at a T14 is (probably) guaranteed an A3 clerkship if they apply very, very broadly. At a T75, I'd be surprised if anyone outside the top 5 people in the class (not percent) have anywhere near a decent chance.

(4) I hope you know that federal clerks make better than $40k. Right now, a new grad law clerk (JSP-11) will make between $57,408 (rest of US) and $67,963 (SF/Bay area). Yeah, it's not big law salary, but its not that bad of a hit either.

I'm aware of the salary. I was just exaggerating., but ~$60k still pales in comparison to twice that amount at the V50.

Final thought, what's the general range of districts are you looking at (e.g., SDNY,EDNY, CDCA, NDCA, EDVA versus DWyo, other rural areas)?

Rural area (though not nearly as rural as Wyoming) -- good bankruptcy courts in particular.


FWIW, the only bankruptcy courts worth clerking for are in the SDNY or the D. Del, neither of which I would describe as "rural."

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Re: V50 Offer v. Clerking

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:28 pm

take the job - see how you like it - you can always clerk after 2 years if you still feel like going that route. In this economy, you take the job if it is in a place you are happy. Not like you are going to lower your clerk odds by getting 2 years of experience.

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Re: V50 Offer v. Clerking

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:44 pm

anon168 wrote:
Assuming your choice comes down to (1) take job or (2) clerk and then look for a new job, your best bet is (2) because you have to think long-term, esp. if OP wants to teach down the line.

A clerkship (again, DCt or better) will open more doors later in life than just working at a firm. It never hurts to know one extra federal judge, and your co-clerk will likely be your contemporary and someone in position of power to help you down the line in your career.


This is not wrong, but emphasizes too much on "down the line." Sure, long term career prospects are important, but so is a year after clerkship.

In this economy, a dist. ct. clerkship, especially in a not-so-competitive district may not open as many doors as you think. Here is an anecdote: the two clerks that work in my chamber are struggling to find jobs. And they both graduated from t20 schools.

That does not mean that a dist. ct. clerkship in SDNY or NDCA are useless, nor is COA clerkship.

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Re: V50 Offer v. Clerking

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:48 pm

what about SDCA or EDCA?

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Re: V50 Offer v. Clerking

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:57 pm

As a summer who has been less than thrilled with his summer ass. firm, does anyone have any insights regarding where at CoA clerkship can land you--US Att. Office, V?--or does even a CoA clerkship no longer guarantee (make it likely) that you can move up in the world? Sorry OP for anon hijacking your thread.

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Re: V50 Offer v. Clerking

Postby Detrox » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:As a summer who has been less than thrilled with his summer ass. firm, does anyone have any insights regarding where at CoA clerkship can land you--US Att. Office, V?--or does even a CoA clerkship no longer guarantee (make it likely) that you can move up in the world? Sorry OP for anon hijacking your thread.


TLS wisdom seems to be that even a CoA clerkship won't get you into US Attorney's office straight out of law school, exceptions may be made if you have amazing credentials and the CoA is some super prestigious feeder, but it's definitely the exception.

As for firms, seems to be the complete opposite and clerking for even the "least prestigious" CoA (an odd concept in and of itself) will open the door to many great firms.

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Re: V50 Offer v. Clerking

Postby anon168 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:23 am

Anonymous User wrote:As a summer who has been less than thrilled with his summer ass. firm, does anyone have any insights regarding where at CoA clerkship can land you--US Att. Office, V?--or does even a CoA clerkship no longer guarantee (make it likely) that you can move up in the world? Sorry OP for anon hijacking your thread.


Depending on the COA clerkship (e.g. judge, circuit, etc.), it will definitely open doors to V10 firms.

USAO is a different animal. Each office is different. Some will want COA or DCt clerks, others could care less and primarily hire from local prosecuting offices (e.g. DA, AG, etc.). And all of that comes with this caveat: "Assuming the hiring freeze is lifted ..."

If you have a chance to clerk -- with any Article III judge -- do it. It's a no brainer.

I know that for law students your primary focus is getting a job, but remember getting a job is no good if you can't keep the job. Clerking will not only make you a better lawyer, but a better person.

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Re: V50 Offer v. Clerking

Postby thesealocust » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:46 am

anon168 wrote:Clerking will not only make you a better lawyer, but a better person.


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rayiner
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Re: V50 Offer v. Clerking

Postby rayiner » Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:54 am

thesealocust wrote:Take the job offer then look for clerkships. If and only if you get a clerkship you can negotiate with your firm, but generally you'll get hired back after the clerkship and possibly with a bonus. If you don't get the clerkship, you've already accepted the job.

There's really no choice to be made right now - the right move is accepting the firm job either way. It's totally fine to clerkship hunt with an accepted law firm offer.


This was the second response and should have ended the thread.

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Re: V50 Offer v. Clerking

Postby Headybrah » Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:45 am

rayiner wrote:This was the second response and should have ended the thread.


Bros go 13k+ posts so you know its the truth




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