Guess I don't like the law.

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dood
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Re: Guess I don't like the law.

Postby dood » Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:42 am

cinephile wrote:Everyone here mentions working at your current firm to pay off the debt before going in-house, but if you don't like the work -- not just the hours or the atmosphere of where you're working, but the actual work -- then why not start over and look into other careers after you've paid off your debt?


small minds think alike.

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Re: Guess I don't like the law.

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:50 am

This is sad.

Do you think your grandfather enjoyed having to spend two years slogging across Europe in the winter to kill nazis? You think he enjoyed spending the next 30 years working in a shoe lace factory?

SPOILER ALERT.

He didn't.

keg411
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Re: Guess I don't like the law.

Postby keg411 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:58 am

Do you not like the work or do you not like your firm? If it's the former, then you need to start considering non-law careers (if you have good grades at a t14, they probably have consulting interviews on campus if you'd prefer something business-related). If it's the latter, then talk to some of your friends and see how they like their firms or consider applying to your hometown firms if you're uncomfortable at your big-city V10.

Keep in mind, as long as you get an offer, you can always apply to other firms or other legal jobs in general. Worst case scenario, go back but be positive. If you have more than a week left, consider trying other practice groups than what you've been doing (i.e. if you're hating on corporate, try litigation; if you hate litigation try corporate -- or bankruptcy, or real estate or tax, etc.; if there are people that seem happier in a particular practice group, go talk to them!).

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IAFG
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Re: Guess I don't like the law.

Postby IAFG » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:03 am

99.9luft wrote:
Ruxin1 wrote:Your not supposed to post in employment forum as an 0L, that's what he meant


ooooh. Fail on my part, then. Thanks! Ironically, I have quite a few LS friends in the same shoes as the OP, so my comments weren't completely out of my ass. Anyway, I shall leave now. :D

OP, best of luck!

I don't care how many people know know in OP's shoes. What's aggravating about 0Ls posting that sort of advice is it smacks of rationalization for your own possibly bad choices. After all, you won't wring your hands like OP, right? If you hate law, you'll suck it up, pay off your loans and, uh... work in-house? Working... in law? Isn't the whole point OP doesn't like law? That law is boring and nitpicky and demanding? Instead of pat and obvious answers, why don't you turn that focus inward, to consider what it is you really know about the daily grind of working in the legal industry, and if that's actually consistent with your capabilities and interests.

And FWIW, now in the last week of my SA, I really enjoy law.

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IAFG
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Re: Guess I don't like the law.

Postby IAFG » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:05 am

keg411 wrote:Do you not like the work or do you not like your firm? If it's the former, then you need to start considering non-law careers (if you have good grades at a t14, they probably have consulting interviews on campus if you'd prefer something business-related). If it's the latter, then talk to some of your friends and see how they like their firms or consider applying to your hometown firms if you're uncomfortable at your big-city V10.

Keep in mind, as long as you get an offer, you can always apply to other firms or other legal jobs in general. Worst case scenario, go back but be positive. If you have more than a week left, consider trying other practice groups than what you've been doing (i.e. if you're hating on corporate, try litigation; if you hate litigation try corporate -- or bankruptcy, or real estate or tax, etc.; if there are people that seem happier in a particular practice group, go talk to them!).

Good advice. Trying to land a fellowship or clerkship could buy OP a little time to look at alternatives in and out of the legal industry before committing to a firm or practice area (not to mention, to scope out non-law jobs).

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cinephile
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Re: Guess I don't like the law.

Postby cinephile » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:07 am

Anonymous User wrote:This is sad.

Do you think your grandfather enjoyed having to spend two years slogging across Europe in the winter to kill nazis? You think he enjoyed spending the next 30 years working in a shoe lace factory?

SPOILER ALERT.

He didn't.


And this is stupid. Also, it's a terrible abuse of the anonymous feature.

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IAFG
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Re: Guess I don't like the law.

Postby IAFG » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:19 am

Anonymous User wrote:This is sad.

Do you think your grandfather enjoyed having to spend two years slogging across Europe in the winter to kill nazis? You think he enjoyed spending the next 30 years working in a shoe lace factory?

SPOILER ALERT.

He didn't.

My great-grandfather was a lighthouse keeper who spent the bulk of his time hunting and fishing. My grandfather was a truck driver who also spent most of his time on hobbies. My father spends 70+ hours a week at work and so did I before law school and so will I after law school. I guess dad and I are a little more invested in having a job that doesn't make us suicidal.

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Re: Guess I don't like the law.

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:26 am

This doesn't sound like you don't like the law, it sounds like you don't want to live the life of a V10 lawyer. Those are very different things. I'm not sure what my advice would be, but I think the options are live frugally/work this type of job for 3-4 years/ move in house or to a boutique; or, read up on your schools LRAP/look for much lower paying but more rewarding legal jobs/do that, but the danger of the second path is that you may not like them, and then you're doing a job you dislike for a longer period of time.

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Re: Guess I don't like the law.

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:29 am

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:This doesn't sound like you don't like the law, it sounds like you don't want to live the life of a V10 lawyer. Those are very different things. I'm not sure what my advice would be, but I think the options are live frugally/work this type of job for 3-4 years/ move in house or to a boutique; or, read up on your schools LRAP/look for much lower paying but more rewarding legal jobs/do that, but the danger of the second path is that you may not like them, and then you're doing a job you dislike for a longer period of time.


This is also a great choice! A lot of public interest jobs have you working with people more, since you are representing them and not mostly faceless corporations. There is much less just sitting down and typing, and much more discussing and learning about your clients.

Slobberson
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Re: Guess I don't like the law.

Postby Slobberson » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:51 am

cinephile wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:This is sad.

Do you think your grandfather enjoyed having to spend two years slogging across Europe in the winter to kill nazis? You think he enjoyed spending the next 30 years working in a shoe lace factory?

SPOILER ALERT.

He didn't.


And this is stupid. Also, it's a terrible abuse of the anonymous feature.


Oops on anon.

Its not stupid. Most people don't like their first job. If OP doesn't like his, he should do what everyone else does: stick it out until he finds a new one. Until then, he can quit crying on the Internet and put his life in perspective. Our generation is bitchy and annoying.

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IAFG
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Re: Guess I don't like the law.

Postby IAFG » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:04 am

Slobberson wrote:
cinephile wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:This is sad.

Do you think your grandfather enjoyed having to spend two years slogging across Europe in the winter to kill nazis? You think he enjoyed spending the next 30 years working in a shoe lace factory?

SPOILER ALERT.

He didn't.


And this is stupid. Also, it's a terrible abuse of the anonymous feature.


Oops on anon.

Its not stupid. Most people don't like their first job. If OP doesn't like his, he should do what everyone else does: stick it out until he finds a new one. Until then, he can quit crying on the Internet and put his life in perspective. Our generation is bitchy and annoying.

It's incredibly stupid. OP is a glorified summer intern. His fate is not set in stone and he probably has the credentials to make a move now. It's the perfect time to contemplate alternative paths. Do you know anything about legal hiring??

Slobberson
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Re: Guess I don't like the law.

Postby Slobberson » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:07 am

Yea. He should "stick it out until he finds a new one."

AllTheLawz
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Re: Guess I don't like the law.

Postby AllTheLawz » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:10 am

If you hate the sitting in a chair and staring at a screen part then you will hate somewhere around 80% of all professional jobs.

Also, people need to stop recommending consulting as an alternative career to Biglaw. It isn't. Those jobs are looking for people with top undergrad credentials/SAT scores and they are mostly looking for people with a business background or engineers. Random guy from V10 is not getting the gig that BCG recruits for at law schools.

estopped
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Re: Guess I don't like the law.

Postby estopped » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:13 am

AllTheLawz wrote:If you hate the sitting in a chair and staring at a screen part then you will hate somewhere around 80% of all professional jobs.

Also, people need to stop recommending consulting as an alternative career to Biglaw. It isn't. Those jobs are looking for people with top undergrad credentials/SAT scores and they are mostly looking for people with a business background or engineers. Random guy from V10 is not getting the gig that BCG recruits for at law schools.


SAT scores? :|

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IAFG
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Re: Guess I don't like the law.

Postby IAFG » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:15 am

Slobberson wrote:Yea. He should "stick it out until he finds a new one."

So your recommendation is not to quit his SA?

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cinephile
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Re: Guess I don't like the law.

Postby cinephile » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:15 am

Slobberson wrote:
cinephile wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:This is sad.

Do you think your grandfather enjoyed having to spend two years slogging across Europe in the winter to kill nazis? You think he enjoyed spending the next 30 years working in a shoe lace factory?

SPOILER ALERT.

He didn't.


And this is stupid. Also, it's a terrible abuse of the anonymous feature.


Oops on anon.

Its not stupid. Most people don't like their first job. If OP doesn't like his, he should do what everyone else does: stick it out until he finds a new one. Until then, he can quit crying on the Internet and put his life in perspective. Our generation is bitchy and annoying.


Your post seemed to indicate that someone stay in a job they hate for the next thirty years. So yeah, that is dumb. You only live once and there's no point in making yourself miserable for thirty years. The only thing I'd agree with you on is that he should accept the offer if it's made and THEN start looking for something new that can service his debt.

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Re: Guess I don't like the law.

Postby bjsesq » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:17 am

IAFG wrote:
Slobberson wrote:Yea. He should "stick it out until he finds a new one."

So your recommendation is not to quit his SA?


I think he is saying that he should take the Associate job if it is offered. All his holier than thou bullshit aside, I get fuckface's point. An offer in hand is better than a dream you may or may not get.

AllTheLawz
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Re: Guess I don't like the law.

Postby AllTheLawz » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:18 am

estopped wrote:
AllTheLawz wrote:If you hate the sitting in a chair and staring at a screen part then you will hate somewhere around 80% of all professional jobs.

Also, people need to stop recommending consulting as an alternative career to Biglaw. It isn't. Those jobs are looking for people with top undergrad credentials/SAT scores and they are mostly looking for people with a business background or engineers. Random guy from V10 is not getting the gig that BCG recruits for at law schools.


SAT scores? :|


Yep. Most of those "business" jobs that people suggest as an alternative ask for undergrad transcripts, and standardized test scores (SAT/ACT and sometimes LSAT). I cant say with certainty that they use them for consultants/case managers the same way they do for analysts but for analysts they have pretty hard SAT/ACT cut lines

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Re: Guess I don't like the law.

Postby Slobberson » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:26 am

bjsesq wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Slobberson wrote:Yea. He should "stick it out until he finds a new one."

So your recommendation is not to quit his SA?


I think he is saying that he should take the Associate job if it is offered. All his holier than thou bullshit aside, I get fuckface's point. An offer in hand is better than a dream you may or may not get.


Hahahahahah. This accurately sums up my message.

I just dont see how dropping out of school would be a good idea. He doesn't like staring at screens? I can't think I many jobs that don't involve computers and would allow him to pay off his debt. The ones I can think of are not available to him anyway: rock star, heiress, pro athlete. Those ships have sailed.

Quit whining, work at the firm. Try lit if you don't like corporate. If you still don like it then change jobs like everyone else.

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IAFG
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Re: Guess I don't like the law.

Postby IAFG » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:32 am

bjsesq wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Slobberson wrote:Yea. He should "stick it out until he finds a new one."

So your recommendation is not to quit his SA?


I think he is saying that he should take the Associate job if it is offered. All his holier than thou bullshit aside, I get fuckface's point. An offer in hand is better than a dream you may or may not get.

Accepting an offer and resigning yourself to starting are two different things. If you don't like SAing, I seriously doubt being a junior will go well. As grim as the market is, there are ways to buy yourself time to look for alternatives without having to compromise your relationship with your firm. Which is why I don't think "stick it out" is appropriate advice at all.

Slobberson
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Re: Guess I don't like the law.

Postby Slobberson » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:35 am

Describe these alternatives.

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bjsesq
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Re: Guess I don't like the law.

Postby bjsesq » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:37 am

IAFG wrote:
bjsesq wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Slobberson wrote:Yea. He should "stick it out until he finds a new one."

So your recommendation is not to quit his SA?


I think he is saying that he should take the Associate job if it is offered. All his holier than thou bullshit aside, I get fuckface's point. An offer in hand is better than a dream you may or may not get.

Accepting an offer and resigning yourself to starting are two different things. If you don't like SAing, I seriously doubt being a junior will go well. As grim as the market is, there are ways to buy yourself time to look for alternatives without having to compromise your relationship with your firm. Which is why I don't think "stick it out" is appropriate advice at all.


Which ways? I hate my firm, and the thought of being an associate here scares the fuck out of me. But at the end of the day, I have children, debt, and other responsibilities that are waiting once the lawl school vacation ends. My happiness takes a back seat to those things. Maybe once I am on some financial footing that isn't softer softer that 60 year old penis, I can pursue my dreams. Now doesn't seem like the right time.


As an aside, associate offers must be accepted by, what, 21 days after the offer? Or is it 30? I forget the nalp guideline for this one.

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IAFG
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Re: Guess I don't like the law.

Postby IAFG » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:43 am

Just because you accept your offer doesn't mean you can't look for clerkships, fellowships and non-law jobs. And a huge percentage of people who are candidates for V10s are also competitive for those alternatives. From there, you really don't owe your firm anything.

09042014
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Re: Guess I don't like the law.

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:45 am

Anonymous User wrote:My SA at a V10 bores the hell out of me. Yes, the work is "high-level." Sure, it's fun and strange to read about clients in the Times. But, I don't think the kick that either of those things occasionally provides is enough to keep me interested for very long. I hate staring at a screen and sitting in a chair all day, every day, especially when I'm reading about yet another board of directors. This summer has really put me through a mental wringer - I have thought, for my whole life, that the desire to succeed, to be the best at something, would drive me forever, but I feel like that rope has run out. I don't care about being the best at anything anymore. I just want to be happy.

The people I work with are brilliant and engaging, but so many of them are unhappy. Several of the associates that I really clicked with have departed the firm during my time here. The other day, after lunch, an associate cornered me in the elevator and said "this is your last chance to get out" without a shred of humor. I tell myself that it would only be for a few years, and then I'd be able to do anything, but man, those years will be the last of my twenties - and does being able to do "anything" just mean being able to do more law?

Obviously this is a story we are all familiar with. More pie. I feel like a fool, because I agonized over the decision to come to law school in the first place, and felt (mostly) good about my choice until now. I know I am very lucky that I did well enough to be gainfully employed, but here I am, realizing that I might have made an awful mistake. Should I drop out? What do I do?

Oh, yeah, I have a "degree" in political science and a $200k debt load. Cue the derision - I know, I know.

(Anon because some classmates know my username.)



Have you ever had a real job? It sucks bro. Welcome to life.

Slobberson
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Re: Guess I don't like the law.

Postby Slobberson » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:46 am

Try to find a clerkship at that hour? Do you know how that works? Overall that's shit advice.

Guess what happens when you finish a clerkship.

You've also backtracked to say what I've been saying. OP should take the job, if you don't want to do it just stick it out until you find something better.
Last edited by Slobberson on Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:53 am, edited 4 times in total.




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