How selective is Arnold & Porter's DC office?

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How selective is Arnold & Porter's DC office?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:35 pm

What kind of grades from MVP?

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Re: How selective is Arnold & Porter's DC office?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What kind of grades from MVP?


Also interested. Just outside the T14, Top 20%, Law Review.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: How selective is Arnold & Porter's DC office?

Postby Bildungsroman » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:59 pm

This thread is painfully lazy and useless. "I'm at one of the following schools and, presumably, already have all my grades. Instead of me putting some effort into gauging my chances, I'd prefer you tell me all the grade ranges necessary at a number of schools. Also, I'm working under the mistaken assumption that it's all grades."

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Re: How selective is Arnold & Porter's DC office?

Postby portaprokoss » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:05 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:This thread is painfully lazy and useless. "I'm at one of the following schools and, presumably, already have all my grades. Instead of me putting some effort into gauging my chances, I'd prefer you tell me all the grade ranges necessary at a number of schools. Also, I'm working under the mistaken assumption that it's all grades."


You are an ass.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: How selective is Arnold & Porter's DC office?

Postby Bildungsroman » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:06 pm

portaprokoss wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:This thread is painfully lazy and useless. "I'm at one of the following schools and, presumably, already have all my grades. Instead of me putting some effort into gauging my chances, I'd prefer you tell me all the grade ranges necessary at a number of schools. Also, I'm working under the mistaken assumption that it's all grades."


You are an ass.

Sure, maybe. But they're already posting anonymously. Posting their school and rank or GPA would actually give someone a shot at offering useful advice.

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Re: How selective is Arnold & Porter's DC office?

Postby thesealocust » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:14 pm

Bildungsroman is right.

Having said that: It's very selective. There aren't many big firms in DC (i.e. large firms with large summer classes) and A&P is top-flight amongst them. Williams & Connolly, Covington, A&P, Wilmer and Hogan compete for the best students. There are other (good) firms in DC, but those are the big and selective ones.

Grades wise, you need really good ones (not like top 10% absolutely required, but almost always well above median) even from a T14 - and work experience / reasons for wanting DC or the practice area specialty of the firm are also a big boost.

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Re: How selective is Arnold & Porter's DC office?

Postby portaprokoss » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:18 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
portaprokoss wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:This thread is painfully lazy and useless. "I'm at one of the following schools and, presumably, already have all my grades. Instead of me putting some effort into gauging my chances, I'd prefer you tell me all the grade ranges necessary at a number of schools. Also, I'm working under the mistaken assumption that it's all grades."


You are an ass.

Sure, maybe. But they're already posting anonymously. Posting their school and rank or GPA would actually give someone a shot at offering useful advice.


I'm OP. I don't really value some random law student's worthless opinion on my softs. I'm not going to rely on some stranger's fine-tuned calculation of my chances at a an individual firm. I don't think the type of people who could actually give such specific, worthwhile advice on that firm are cruising TLS on a Saturday afternoon. Rather, I'm looking for a simple answer that won't waste anyone's time. Something like: probably top half, generally top quarter + LR.

Something like this:

"Grades wise, you need really good ones (not like top 10% absolutely required, but almost always well above median) even from a T14 - and work experience / reasons for wanting DC or the practice area specialty of the firm are also a big boost."


thank you, thesealocust.

I can't comprehend that there are people out there who have nothing better to do than cruise the internet calling people stupid.

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Re: How selective is Arnold & Porter's DC office?

Postby chasgoose » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:23 pm

portaprokoss wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
portaprokoss wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:This thread is painfully lazy and useless. "I'm at one of the following schools and, presumably, already have all my grades. Instead of me putting some effort into gauging my chances, I'd prefer you tell me all the grade ranges necessary at a number of schools. Also, I'm working under the mistaken assumption that it's all grades."


You are an ass.

Sure, maybe. But they're already posting anonymously. Posting their school and rank or GPA would actually give someone a shot at offering useful advice.


I'm OP. I don't really value some random law student's worthless opinion on my softs. I'm not going to rely on some stranger's fine-tuned calculation of my chances at a an individual firm. I don't think the type of people who could actually give such specific, worthwhile advice on that firm are cruising TLS on a Saturday afternoon. Rather, I'm looking for a simple answer that won't waste anyone's time. Something like: probably top half, generally top quarter + LR.

Something like this:

"Grades wise, you need really good ones (not like top 10% absolutely required, but almost always well above median) even from a T14 - and work experience / reasons for wanting DC or the practice area specialty of the firm are also a big boost."


thank you, thesealocust.

I never people who have nothing better to do than cruise the internet calling people stupid.


If you aren't above top quarter, even with LR its going to be a rough road unless you have pretty extensive DC connections (think political career before law school) and are a really good interviewer. You certainly can try, but it's very unlikely.

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Re: How selective is Arnold & Porter's DC office?

Postby portaprokoss » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:26 pm

chasgoose wrote:If you aren't above top quarter, even with LR its going to be a rough road unless you have pretty extensive DC connections (think political career before law school) and are a really good interviewer. You certainly can try, but it's very unlikely.


Thank you

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Re: How selective is Arnold & Porter's DC office?

Postby Detrox » Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:47 pm

Anecdotal: A good number of people above top 10% at my T6 did not get callbacks at A&P DC. Seems to require more than just good grades.

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Re: How selective is Arnold & Porter's DC office?

Postby Magnificent » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:20 pm

A&P along with W&C, Cov, and Wilmer are considered the "top" of the DC market if we're talking firm-wide prestige rather than specific practice groups. They are very selective and outside of Harvard/Yale, they only take at most 1-2 students for the rest of the T14. Almost all of their summers have top grades and law review.

They also take folks who don't have top grades but legit DC connections and previous DC related work experience. If you either have top grades from a top school or if you have relevant DC work experience (such as working on the Hill) then you should bid.

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Re: How selective is Arnold & Porter's DC office?

Postby Magnificent » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What kind of grades from MVP?


Also interested. Just outside the T14, Top 20%, Law Review.


no chance unless you have previous DC work experience that would be considered relevant to A&P's practice

for example if you worked for years as an aid to a congressman then you would have a decent shot....otherwise you are wasting your time

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Re: How selective is Arnold & Porter's DC office?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:28 pm

Loads of stupid information here thus far. A&P summer here.

A&P DC has 21 summers, ranging from HLS + LR to below T100 + LR. Almost a majority of the summers are non-T14. Fewer than a handful aren't on LR at their respective schools. Top of the class + LR seems more important than pedigree. The MVP student I know there graded on to LR; it actually seems like nearly everyone at the DC office, regardless of school, graded onto LR. A decent chunk of the summers are K-JD from these schools, which makes the previous comment from Magnificent particularly dumb (shocking, I know).

You're better off Top 5% + LR at W&M, W&L, or WUSTL than you are Top 25% at MVP (though Top 20% + LR has a shot). The office is very, very, very focused on personality and a diversity of practice interests.

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Re: How selective is Arnold & Porter's DC office?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Loads of stupid information here thus far. A&P summer here.

A&P DC has 21 summers, ranging from HLS + LR to below T100 + LR. Almost a majority of the summers are non-T14. Fewer than a handful aren't on LR at their respective schools. Top of the class + LR seems more important than pedigree. The MVP student I know there graded on to LR; it actually seems like nearly everyone at the DC office, regardless of school, graded onto LR. A decent chunk of the summers are K-JD from these schools, which makes the previous comment from Magnificent particularly dumb (shocking, I know).

You're better off Top 5% + LR at W&M, W&L, or WUSTL than you are Top 25% at MVP (though Top 20% + LR has a shot). The office is very, very, very focused on personality and a diversity of practice interests.


This is very helpful. How about top 20% +LR from Vandy?

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Re: How selective is Arnold & Porter's DC office?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Loads of stupid information here thus far. A&P summer here.

A&P DC has 21 summers, ranging from HLS + LR to below T100 + LR. Almost a majority of the summers are non-T14. Fewer than a handful aren't on LR at their respective schools. Top of the class + LR seems more important than pedigree. The MVP student I know there graded on to LR; it actually seems like nearly everyone at the DC office, regardless of school, graded onto LR. A decent chunk of the summers are K-JD from these schools, which makes the previous comment from Magnificent particularly dumb (shocking, I know).

You're better off Top 5% + LR at W&M, W&L, or WUSTL than you are Top 25% at MVP (though Top 20% + LR has a shot). The office is very, very, very focused on personality and a diversity of practice interests.


This is very helpful. How about top 20% +LR from Vandy?


I think it's unlikely, but you wouldn't be laughed out of an interview. You'll probably have a better shot if you're not just interested in litigation. Better if you express some interest in corporate or regulatory work.

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Re: How selective is Arnold & Porter's DC office?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Loads of stupid information here thus far. A&P summer here.

A&P DC has 21 summers, ranging from HLS + LR to below T100 + LR. Almost a majority of the summers are non-T14. Fewer than a handful aren't on LR at their respective schools. Top of the class + LR seems more important than pedigree. The MVP student I know there graded on to LR; it actually seems like nearly everyone at the DC office, regardless of school, graded onto LR. A decent chunk of the summers are K-JD from these schools, which makes the previous comment from Magnificent particularly dumb (shocking, I know).

You're better off Top 5% + LR at W&M, W&L, or WUSTL than you are Top 25% at MVP (though Top 20% + LR has a shot). The office is very, very, very focused on personality and a diversity of practice interests.


This is very helpful. How about top 20% +LR from Vandy?


I think it's unlikely, but you wouldn't be laughed out of an interview. You'll probably have a better shot if you're not just interested in litigation. Better if you express some interest in corporate or regulatory work.

Is this true for most DC firms? What about NYC?

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Re: How selective is Arnold & Porter's DC office?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:58 pm

Magnificent wrote:A&P along with W&C, Cov, and Wilmer are considered the "top" of the DC market if we're talking firm-wide prestige rather than specific practice groups. They are very selective and outside of Harvard/Yale, they only take at most 1-2 students for the rest of the T14. Almost all of their summers have top grades and law review.


lol @ anti-Stanford trolling

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Re: How selective is Arnold & Porter's DC office?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Magnificent wrote:A&P along with W&C, Cov, and Wilmer are considered the "top" of the DC market if we're talking firm-wide prestige rather than specific practice groups. They are very selective and outside of Harvard/Yale, they only take at most 1-2 students for the rest of the T14. Almost all of their summers have top grades and law review.


lol @ anti-Stanford trolling


Particularly since SLS has the most total summers at A&P this year.

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Re: How selective is Arnold & Porter's DC office?

Postby Perseus_I » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Loads of stupid information here thus far. A&P summer here.

A&P DC has 21 summers, ranging from HLS + LR to below T100 + LR. Almost a majority of the summers are non-T14. Fewer than a handful aren't on LR at their respective schools. Top of the class + LR seems more important than pedigree. The MVP student I know there graded on to LR; it actually seems like nearly everyone at the DC office, regardless of school, graded onto LR. A decent chunk of the summers are K-JD from these schools, which makes the previous comment from Magnificent particularly dumb (shocking, I know).

You're better off Top 5% + LR at W&M, W&L, or WUSTL than you are Top 25% at MVP (though Top 20% + LR has a shot). The office is very, very, very focused on personality and a diversity of practice interests.


This is very helpful. How about top 20% +LR from Vandy?


I think it's unlikely, but you wouldn't be laughed out of an interview. You'll probably have a better shot if you're not just interested in litigation. Better if you express some interest in corporate or regulatory work.


How does one reconcile the above comment with this comment:

magnificent wrote:

top 20%, just outside the T14, Law Review [me]
no chance unless you have previous DC work experience that would be considered relevant to A&P's practice

for example if you worked for years as an aid to a congressman then you would have a decent shot....otherwise you are wasting your time


Note, I am not the Vandy person. I am a UT person. But would not the same advice apply?

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Re: How selective is Arnold & Porter's DC office?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:35 pm

Perseus_I wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Loads of stupid information here thus far. A&P summer here.

A&P DC has 21 summers, ranging from HLS + LR to below T100 + LR. Almost a majority of the summers are non-T14. Fewer than a handful aren't on LR at their respective schools. Top of the class + LR seems more important than pedigree. The MVP student I know there graded on to LR; it actually seems like nearly everyone at the DC office, regardless of school, graded onto LR. A decent chunk of the summers are K-JD from these schools, which makes the previous comment from Magnificent particularly dumb (shocking, I know).

You're better off Top 5% + LR at W&M, W&L, or WUSTL than you are Top 25% at MVP (though Top 20% + LR has a shot). The office is very, very, very focused on personality and a diversity of practice interests.


This is very helpful. How about top 20% +LR from Vandy?


I think it's unlikely, but you wouldn't be laughed out of an interview. You'll probably have a better shot if you're not just interested in litigation. Better if you express some interest in corporate or regulatory work.


How does one reconcile the above comment with this comment:

magnificent wrote:

top 20%, just outside the T14, Law Review [me]
no chance unless you have previous DC work experience that would be considered relevant to A&P's practice

for example if you worked for years as an aid to a congressman then you would have a decent shot....otherwise you are wasting your time


Note, I am not the Vandy person. I am a UT person. But would not the same advice apply?


I'm the Vandy anon. One answer was from magnificent and one was from the A&P SA-thats how.

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Re: How selective is Arnold & Porter's DC office?

Postby Magnificent » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Loads of stupid information here thus far. A&P summer here.

A&P DC has 21 summers, ranging from HLS + LR to below T100 + LR. Almost a majority of the summers are non-T14. Fewer than a handful aren't on LR at their respective schools. Top of the class + LR seems more important than pedigree. The MVP student I know there graded on to LR; it actually seems like nearly everyone at the DC office, regardless of school, graded onto LR. A decent chunk of the summers are K-JD from these schools, which makes the previous comment from Magnificent particularly dumb (shocking, I know).

You're better off Top 5% + LR at W&M, W&L, or WUSTL than you are Top 25% at MVP (though Top 20% + LR has a shot). The office is very, very, very focused on personality and a diversity of practice interests.


If this is true then the W&C partner I talked with last year wasn't lying. A&P really has fallen off and is no longer part of the elite in DC. You know your firm has fallen off when it is take in more summers from outside the T14 than in the T14.

Silly me for assuming A&P was on the same level as the rest of the elite firms in DC.

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Re: How selective is Arnold & Porter's DC office?

Postby ajaxconstructions » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:33 pm

Magnificent wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Loads of stupid information here thus far. A&P summer here.

A&P DC has 21 summers, ranging from HLS + LR to below T100 + LR. Almost a majority of the summers are non-T14. Fewer than a handful aren't on LR at their respective schools. Top of the class + LR seems more important than pedigree. The MVP student I know there graded on to LR; it actually seems like nearly everyone at the DC office, regardless of school, graded onto LR. A decent chunk of the summers are K-JD from these schools, which makes the previous comment from Magnificent particularly dumb (shocking, I know).

You're better off Top 5% + LR at W&M, W&L, or WUSTL than you are Top 25% at MVP (though Top 20% + LR has a shot). The office is very, very, very focused on personality and a diversity of practice interests.


If this is true then the W&C partner I talked with last year wasn't lying. A&P really has fallen off and is no longer part of the elite in DC. You know your firm has fallen off when it is take in more summers from outside the T14 than in the T14.

Silly me for assuming A&P was on the same level as the rest of the elite firms in DC.

Cute

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Re: How selective is Arnold & Porter's DC office?

Postby rayiner » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:34 pm

Magnificent wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Loads of stupid information here thus far. A&P summer here.

A&P DC has 21 summers, ranging from HLS + LR to below T100 + LR. Almost a majority of the summers are non-T14. Fewer than a handful aren't on LR at their respective schools. Top of the class + LR seems more important than pedigree. The MVP student I know there graded on to LR; it actually seems like nearly everyone at the DC office, regardless of school, graded onto LR. A decent chunk of the summers are K-JD from these schools, which makes the previous comment from Magnificent particularly dumb (shocking, I know).

You're better off Top 5% + LR at W&M, W&L, or WUSTL than you are Top 25% at MVP (though Top 20% + LR has a shot). The office is very, very, very focused on personality and a diversity of practice interests.


If this is true then the W&C partner I talked with last year wasn't lying. A&P really has fallen off and is no longer part of the elite in DC. You know your firm has fallen off when it is take in more summers from outside the T14 than in the T14.

Silly me for assuming A&P was on the same level as the rest of the elite firms in DC.


:roll:

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Re: How selective is Arnold & Porter's DC office?

Postby Magnificent » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Magnificent wrote:A&P along with W&C, Cov, and Wilmer are considered the "top" of the DC market if we're talking firm-wide prestige rather than specific practice groups. They are very selective and outside of Harvard/Yale, they only take at most 1-2 students for the rest of the T14. Almost all of their summers have top grades and law review.


lol @ anti-Stanford trolling


nothing against Stanford but there just aren't many of them in DC

most of the top DC firms are filled with Harvard and Yale folks......the Stanford kids are smart enough to stay in the West Coast during the summers rather than coming to DC and living in the humid swamp

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Re: How selective is Arnold & Porter's DC office?

Postby rayiner » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:41 pm

Magnificent wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Magnificent wrote:A&P along with W&C, Cov, and Wilmer are considered the "top" of the DC market if we're talking firm-wide prestige rather than specific practice groups. They are very selective and outside of Harvard/Yale, they only take at most 1-2 students for the rest of the T14. Almost all of their summers have top grades and law review.


lol @ anti-Stanford trolling


nothing against Stanford but there just aren't many of them in DC

most of the top DC firms are filled with Harvard and Yale folks......the Stanford kids are smart enough to stay in the West Coast during the summers rather than coming to DC and living in the humid swamp


I remember meeting a ton of Stanford grads in DC when I was working there. E.g. Hogan's SA class that summer had the largest representation from Stanford. They have the same per capita in Hogan's DC office as Harvard, more than Yale.




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