Top 20%, lower T1

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risingamerican_2l
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Top 20%, lower T1

Postby risingamerican_2l » Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:41 pm

What firms should I be applying to? I'm happy with anything that pays market. Which NLJ250 firms do I have a shot at?

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Perseus_I
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Re: Top 20%, lower T1

Postby Perseus_I » Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:57 pm

risingamerican_2l wrote:What firms should I be applying to? I'm happy with anything that pays market. Which NLJ250 firms do I have a shot at?


Journals? Law review? Work experience? Market?

The University of Houston may qualify as "lower T1." As might UC Irvine or one of those other crap UC schools. You would likely get some kind of legal job from the former, but you are unlikely to do so from the latter.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Top 20%, lower T1

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:01 pm

If your name is any indicator of what school you go to, your borderline on whether you will get a full time, long term legal job (I'm not really kidding - 36%).

Nevertheless, we need more information.

risingamerican_2l
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Re: Top 20%, lower T1

Postby risingamerican_2l » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:11 pm

american, secondary journal, targeting east coast (anywhere on east coast is ok with me)

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Perseus_I
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Re: Top 20%, lower T1

Postby Perseus_I » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:13 pm

Doesn't everyone want to go to D.C? I know I do. The unfortunate fact is American U is in a place where everyone else wants to go, including Yale grads.

You are on a journal, though. I'd question your NLJ 250 prospects since your school places way less than 20% of the class in the NLJ 250. Are you diverse?

risingamerican_2l
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Re: Top 20%, lower T1

Postby risingamerican_2l » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:14 pm

Perseus_I wrote:Doesn't everyone want to go to D.C? I know I do. The unfortunate fact is American U is in a place where everyone else wants to go, including Yale grads.

Are you on a journal at least?


Yes, DC is top choice, but I am realistic. I can go to Baltimore, Delaware, Virginia, I will even go up to New England if I have to (I don't care).

On a secondary journal (not law review)

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Perseus_I
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Re: Top 20%, lower T1

Postby Perseus_I » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:15 pm

risingamerican_2l wrote:
Perseus_I wrote:Doesn't everyone want to go to D.C? I know I do. The unfortunate fact is American U is in a place where everyone else wants to go, including Yale grads.

Are you on a journal at least?


Yes, DC is top choice, but I am realistic. I can go to Baltimore, Delaware, Virginia, I will even go up to New England if I have to (I don't care).

On a secondary journal (not law review)


Do you have ties to any of these places?

risingamerican_2l
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Re: Top 20%, lower T1

Postby risingamerican_2l » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:18 pm

lived in DC all my life

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monkey85
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Re: Top 20%, lower T1

Postby monkey85 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:34 pm

risingamerican_2l wrote:Yes, DC is top choice, but I am realistic. I can go to Baltimore, Delaware, Virginia, I will even go up to New England if I have to (I don't care).


Then best to start systematically applying to all those places if those are all possibilities.

With your school and rank, nothing is guaranteed for you in any of the cities.

Good luck.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Top 20%, lower T1

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:37 pm

monkey85 wrote:
risingamerican_2l wrote:Yes, DC is top choice, but I am realistic. I can go to Baltimore, Delaware, Virginia, I will even go up to New England if I have to (I don't care).


Then best to start systematically applying to all those places if those are all possibilities.

With your school and rank, nothing is guaranteed for you in any of the cities.

Good luck.


This. Also, be prepared to target small firms (2-11) attorneys.

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Perseus_I
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Re: Top 20%, lower T1

Postby Perseus_I » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:40 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
monkey85 wrote:
risingamerican_2l wrote:Yes, DC is top choice, but I am realistic. I can go to Baltimore, Delaware, Virginia, I will even go up to New England if I have to (I don't care).


Then best to start systematically applying to all those places if those are all possibilities.

With your school and rank, nothing is guaranteed for you in any of the cities.

Good luck.


This. Also, be prepared to target small firms (2-11) attorneys.


Would OP need ties for Baltimore after growing up in D.C? I remember from my undergrad days that Baltimore and D.C. were more-or-less the same metro area. No idea if Baltimore firms see it that way or not.

Anonymous User
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Re: Top 20%, lower T1

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:59 pm

Under 10% of your classmates end up in NLJ250 firms. They most likely have better grades than you and are on the flagship journal. Your best chance at firm employment is to call in a favor somewhere, e.g., a family member, former coworker, or professor who knows somebody at any kind of law firm and can send your resume along. If you don't have any connections to draw on, start aggressively mass mailing every firm in DC/MD/VA/NYC. Unfortunately mass mailing has a very low success rate, especially with the kinds of small firms most likely to hire someone with your stats. Participate in OCI and focus on DC/NYC firms with large class sizes. Do not count on getting a job from OCI. Start emailing alumni at firms and try to set up informational interviews; maybe they will like you and pass your resume along. Start by looking for alumni with your undergrad/law school combo, then move on to recent American grads in your target markets (you can find these people using Lexis). Go to every happy hour/meet&greet/reception you are eligible for, and talk to as many lawyers as you can while you are there. Get business cards and follow up with a resume. Do not turn down any interview and do not stop aggressively pursuing employment until you have an offer in hand.

Hate to break it to you, but if you do not secure a biglaw job in the next ~2 months, you are not likely to ever work in biglaw. Law is a "winners win" profession, and unfortunately you lost round one by finishing outside the top 10% and missing law review. It is still possible for you to win, but it will require a significant amount of hustle (and probably a lot of luck).

risingamerican_2l
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Re: Top 20%, lower T1

Postby risingamerican_2l » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:18 pm

Are there any firms where I am going to be an auto-ding (with my stats)? Which ones (i'm making a list of firms to apply to now)?

Also, I had to swallow my pride and work in a personal injury firm small law firm this summer. How much will firms hold that against me?

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Perseus_I
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Re: Top 20%, lower T1

Postby Perseus_I » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:42 pm

risingamerican_2l wrote:Are there any firms where I am going to be an auto-ding (with my stats)? Which ones (i'm making a list of firms to apply to now)?

Also, I had to swallow my pride and work in a personal injury firm small law firm this summer. How much will firms hold that against me?


1. No one cares about one's 1L summer, as long as it's legal. But if you come into interviews with such an arrogant attitude, you're unlikely to ever get a legal job.

2. Instead of looking at where you are an auto-ding, I would compile a list of firms that have hired people from your school and, from there, narrow it down to firms that have hired graduates of American U without law review (or honors indicating top 10% or better) and focus exclusively on those firms (knowing that this hiring may or may not have occurred during better economic times. Anything after 2008 or from 1989-1992 would be particularly promising).
Last edited by Perseus_I on Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Perseus_I
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Re: Top 20%, lower T1

Postby Perseus_I » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Under 10% of your classmates end up in NLJ250 firms. They most likely have better grades than you and are on the flagship journal. Your best chance at firm employment is to call in a favor somewhere, e.g., a family member, former coworker, or professor who knows somebody at any kind of law firm and can send your resume along. If you don't have any connections to draw on, start aggressively mass mailing every firm in DC/MD/VA/NYC. Unfortunately mass mailing has a very low success rate, especially with the kinds of small firms most likely to hire someone with your stats. Participate in OCI and focus on DC/NYC firms with large class sizes. Do not count on getting a job from OCI. Start emailing alumni at firms and try to set up informational interviews; maybe they will like you and pass your resume along. Start by looking for alumni with your undergrad/law school combo, then move on to recent American grads in your target markets (you can find these people using Lexis). Go to every happy hour/meet&greet/reception you are eligible for, and talk to as many lawyers as you can while you are there. Get business cards and follow up with a resume. Do not turn down any interview and do not stop aggressively pursuing employment until you have an offer in hand.

Hate to break it to you, but if you do not secure a biglaw job in the next ~2 months, you are not likely to ever work in biglaw. Law is a "winners win" profession, and unfortunately you lost round one by finishing outside the top 10% and missing law review. It is still possible for you to win, but it will require a significant amount of hustle (and probably a lot of luck).


It definitely does happen, though.

I know people who drastically increased their class ranking during 2L and 3L and then landed an Article III clerkship--which led to Big Law. But at least one of those had already written onto law review as a 1L. Another did not have LR but went to school in Delaware and landed one with a chancery court and happened to do some high profile work in a high-demand area. With a secondary journal, getting a clerkship is going to be harder, even with great grades, so this "now or never" advice applies more strongly here.

shock259
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Re: Top 20%, lower T1

Postby shock259 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Under 10% of your classmates end up in NLJ250 firms. They most likely have better grades than you and are on the flagship journal. Your best chance at firm employment is to call in a favor somewhere, e.g., a family member, former coworker, or professor who knows somebody at any kind of law firm and can send your resume along. If you don't have any connections to draw on, start aggressively mass mailing every firm in DC/MD/VA/NYC. Unfortunately mass mailing has a very low success rate, especially with the kinds of small firms most likely to hire someone with your stats. Participate in OCI and focus on DC/NYC firms with large class sizes. Do not count on getting a job from OCI. Start emailing alumni at firms and try to set up informational interviews; maybe they will like you and pass your resume along. Start by looking for alumni with your undergrad/law school combo, then move on to recent American grads in your target markets (you can find these people using Lexis). Go to every happy hour/meet&greet/reception you are eligible for, and talk to as many lawyers as you can while you are there. Get business cards and follow up with a resume. Do not turn down any interview and do not stop aggressively pursuing employment until you have an offer in hand.

Hate to break it to you, but if you do not secure a biglaw job in the next ~2 months, you are not likely to ever work in biglaw. Law is a "winners win" profession, and unfortunately you lost round one by finishing outside the top 10% and missing law review. It is still possible for you to win, but it will require a significant amount of hustle (and probably a lot of luck).


This x1000.

Hustle, hustle, hustle. But be prepared to settle for any good, long term legal job.

Anonymous User
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Re: Top 20%, lower T1

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:23 pm

risingamerican_2l wrote:Are there any firms where I am going to be an auto-ding (with my stats)? Which ones (i'm making a list of firms to apply to now)?

Also, I had to swallow my pride and work in a personal injury firm small law firm this summer. How much will firms hold that against me?


Very large swaths of the NLJ250 will probably auto-ding you. I second the advice above to focus your search on firms that have hired American grads who weren't on law review. Nobody cares about 1L summer except to kill time during the interview.

Also, I hope you are aggressively pursuing returning to the PI firm for at least part of the summer. They've seen your work product so your resume won't be a barrier. Even if they don't want you back, they may know other PI shops who would be willing to pick up a summer or at least let you work for free and learn the ropes so you can market yourself to similar firms if you graduate jobless.

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rayiner
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Re: Top 20%, lower T1

Postby rayiner » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:27 pm

I'd expand it to the NLJ 350. Lots of good firms in there.




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