"if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

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fatduck
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby fatduck » Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:51 pm

Julio_El_Chavo wrote:
quakeroats wrote:I should note, however, that there is one exception. The United States has gotten wealthier over the last 40 years and we haven't gotten any happier on average.


I'm curious what you think has caused this?

obama's america. the pursuit of happiness is dead as everyone just wants a handout.

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SuperCerealBrah
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby SuperCerealBrah » Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:53 pm

bk1 wrote:I think we can all agree on one thing: no matter who you marry, odds are your marriage will probably either fail or be miserable.




Hey, its kind of similar odds to whether you get a legal job or not (nationally speaking not school specific) lol

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IAFG
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby IAFG » Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:54 pm

Julio_El_Chavo wrote:
I was strictly speaking in terms of dollars and cents. I 100% agree with you on this: if a woman isn't happy because she's not working, she should work. There are definitely women like this.

I know you might have a hard time believing it, but some women actually want to be SAHMs.

We don't have to rely on what I do or don't believe. We can look at the empirical evidence. http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/ ... moms_.html

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IAFG
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby IAFG » Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:54 pm

Gettingstarted1928 wrote:The worst is when working women try to denigrate SAHMs. I never understood why women they feel the need to do this.

Who is doing that?

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fatduck
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby fatduck » Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:57 pm

IAFG wrote:
Gettingstarted1928 wrote:The worst is when working women try to denigrate SAHMs. I never understood why women they feel the need to do this.

Who is doing that?

consider the source. what he really means is that someone at his office took umbrage with his tirades about how a woman's place is in the home.

Myself
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Postby Myself » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:03 pm

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Postby Myself » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:11 pm

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Julio_El_Chavo
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:12 pm

IAFG wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:
I was strictly speaking in terms of dollars and cents. I 100% agree with you on this: if a woman isn't happy because she's not working, she should work. There are definitely women like this.

I know you might have a hard time believing it, but some women actually want to be SAHMs.

We don't have to rely on what I do or don't believe. We can look at the empirical evidence. http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/ ... moms_.html


Using this logic, lawyers are, on average, more depressed than the rest of society. So why the fuck did you decide to become a lawyer?

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nygrrrl
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby nygrrrl » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:12 pm

IAFG wrote:
Gettingstarted1928 wrote:The worst is when working women try to denigrate SAHMs. I never understood why women they feel the need to do this.

Who is doing that?

Actually, in NYC the debate is vicious and there are ugly, ugly people on both sides. SAHMs attacking Working moms and vice versa. I've found the former to be much more prevalent, however.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby Bildungsroman » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:13 pm

IAFG, is the legal employment forum really the best place for you to continuously try to validate your life choices?

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Gettingstarted1928
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby Gettingstarted1928 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:21 pm

fatduck wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Gettingstarted1928 wrote:The worst is when working women try to denigrate SAHMs. I never understood why women they feel the need to do this.

Who is doing that?

consider the source. what he really means is that someone at his office took umbrage with his tirades about how a woman's place is in the home.


Riiiiiiight. Fiscal conservatives = people who hate women and want them to be submissive. :roll:

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quakeroats
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby quakeroats » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:22 pm

Julio_El_Chavo wrote:
quakeroats wrote:I should note, however, that there is one exception. The United States has gotten wealthier over the last 40 years and we haven't gotten any happier on average.


I'm curious what you think has caused this?


I have a few theories, but here are a few from the article:

We have several theories. There may be large-scale social trends that we don't think of as being gendered that might have disproportionately made women less satisfied with their lives. Robert Putnam’s book Bowling Alone talked about the phenomenon of decreasing social cohesion. It is possible a social trend like that could be having an impact.

It also could be women's changed expectations. There are two ways of thinking about this. One is simply that women expect a lot today and their expectations have moved faster than society has been able to deliver, and so we have a bigger gap between expectations and what society is actually delivering. Women may have expected to be sexually harassed in the 1970s, and they got sexually harassed, so there wasn't an expectations gap. Today, women may expect to not be sexually harassed and yet sexual harassment still occurs — at a lower rate than in the 1970s, but it definitely still occurs — and so there might actually be more dissatisfaction today, simply because the expectations moved more sharply than the actual members of society could change their behavior.

Another way to think about it is that women might be expecting themselves to succeed in many different domains, and it is simply harder to have a truly blissful life in many, many domains. An MBA student told me her mother's idea of the perfect life was having children who are thriving and her home and garden well kept. Her mom always considered herself happy. The student added, I still want my children to thrive, and I still want to have a nice home and garden, but I also want to make a broader contribution to society. I want to have a career with work that's meaningful. To be really happy, I need to be thriving in all those dimensions, and that's just harder to achieve.

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fatduck
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby fatduck » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:24 pm

Gettingstarted1928 wrote:
fatduck wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Gettingstarted1928 wrote:The worst is when working women try to denigrate SAHMs. I never understood why women they feel the need to do this.

Who is doing that?

consider the source. what he really means is that someone at his office took umbrage with his tirades about how a woman's place is in the home.

Riiiiiiight. Fiscal conservatives = people who hate women and want them to be submissive. :roll:

i've never met a fiscal conservative so i couldn't tell you that. it seems to be a commonly-held belief among republican douches, though.

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AreJay711
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby AreJay711 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:25 pm

quakeroats wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:
quakeroats wrote:I should note, however, that there is one exception. The United States has gotten wealthier over the last 40 years and we haven't gotten any happier on average.


I'm curious what you think has caused this?


I have a few theories, but here are a few from the article:

We have several theories. There may be large-scale social trends that we don't think of as being gendered that might have disproportionately made women less satisfied with their lives. Robert Putnam’s book Bowling Alone talked about the phenomenon of decreasing social cohesion. It is possible a social trend like that could be having an impact.

It also could be women's changed expectations. There are two ways of thinking about this. One is simply that women expect a lot today and their expectations have moved faster than society has been able to deliver, and so we have a bigger gap between expectations and what society is actually delivering. Women may have expected to be sexually harassed in the 1970s, and they got sexually harassed, so there wasn't an expectations gap. Today, women may expect to not be sexually harassed and yet sexual harassment still occurs — at a lower rate than in the 1970s, but it definitely still occurs — and so there might actually be more dissatisfaction today, simply because the expectations moved more sharply than the actual members of society could change their behavior.

Another way to think about it is that women might be expecting themselves to succeed in many different domains, and it is simply harder to have a truly blissful life in many, many domains. An MBA student told me her mother's idea of the perfect life was having children who are thriving and her home and garden well kept. Her mom always considered herself happy. The student added, I still want my children to thrive, and I still want to have a nice home and garden, but I also want to make a broader contribution to society. I want to have a career with work that's meaningful. To be really happy, I need to be thriving in all those dimensions, and that's just harder to achieve.


The bold is the correct answer. Raising expectations is always the wrong move.

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nygrrrl
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby nygrrrl » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:27 pm

AreJay711 wrote:The bold is the correct answer. Raising expectations is always the wrong move.

So, "You get what you get and don't be upset?"

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Gettingstarted1928
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby Gettingstarted1928 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:28 pm

i've never met a fiscal conservative so i couldn't tell you that. it seems to be a commonly-held belief among republican douches, though.


Somebody needs to leave their bubble.

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AreJay711
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby AreJay711 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:30 pm

nygrrrl wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:The bold is the correct answer. Raising expectations is always the wrong move.

So, "You get what you get and don't be upset?"


Generally that is the correct solution to life. Or to just be happy with what you are able to achieve then let everything else do which would still allow high aspirations, just not exceptions.

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cantaboot
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby cantaboot » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:32 pm

I will never denigrate stay-home moms. my mother is one. I think women contribute to society in many different ways and it takes a lot for a well-educated/reasonably eduated woman to give up on her job/career to dedicate herself to children and housework.

what I have looked down on are those women who do not want to work/ have babies and who just want to marry rich and taken well care of.

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nygrrrl
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby nygrrrl » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:34 pm

AreJay711 wrote:
nygrrrl wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:The bold is the correct answer. Raising expectations is always the wrong move.

So, "You get what you get and don't be upset?"


Generally that is the correct solution to life. Or to just be happy with what you are able to achieve then let everything else do which would still allow high aspirations, just not exceptions.

Oh I see. So women should accept what they have traditionally been given and not try to raise expectations.
See, what I don't get is, why don't men lower their expectations? Maybe the answer is for both sides to alter the way they see the issue, not to tell women to quit wanting more. (After all, men have traditionally been able to have the family, the garden and the career - what it sounds like you're really saying is that women should not aspire to what men have long had.)

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Gettingstarted1928
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby Gettingstarted1928 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:36 pm

cantaboot wrote:I will never denigrate stay-home moms. my mother is one. I think women contribute to society in many different ways and it takes a lot for a well-educated/reasonably eduated woman to give up on her job/career to dedicate herself to children and housework.

what I have looked down on are those women who do not want to work/ have babies and who just want to marry rich and taken well care of.


TITCR

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nygrrrl
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby nygrrrl » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:36 pm

cantaboot wrote:I will never denigrate stay-home moms. my mother is one. I think women contribute to society in many different ways and it takes a lot for a well-educated/reasonably eduated woman to give up on her job/career to dedicate herself to children and housework.

what I have looked down on are those women who do not want to work/ have babies and who just want to marry rich and taken well care of.

I think that the power of Women's Liberation is that women now have CHOICES. I am glad we have opportunities our moms and grandmoms never had and I will never look down on a woman for the choices she makes (though I confess to not understanding the women who want to marry rich and be taken care of - that would be so abhorent, to me.)

ETA: fwiw? I revere SAHMs. I wish like heck that I could do what they do - but I can't. I try to learn from them and I think I'm a much better mom for doing so... but I've gotta work outside the house. That's just me.

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IAFG
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby IAFG » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:42 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:IAFG, is the legal employment forum really the best place for you to continuously try to validate your life choices?

:?: I said on page one that having children is ill-advised.

shock259
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby shock259 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:42 pm

bk1 wrote:I think we can all agree on one thing: no matter who you marry, odds are your marriage will probably either fail or be miserable.


This x10000

I'd only add "if you are a working professional" to the beginning.

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AreJay711
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby AreJay711 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:43 pm

nygrrrl wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:
nygrrrl wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:The bold is the correct answer. Raising expectations is always the wrong move.

So, "You get what you get and don't be upset?"


Generally that is the correct solution to life. Or to just be happy with what you are able to achieve then let everything else do which would still allow high aspirations, just not exceptions.

Oh I see. So women should accept what they have traditionally been given and not try to raise expectations.
See, what I don't get is, why don't men lower their expectations? Maybe the answer is for both sides to alter the way they see the issue, not to tell women to quit wanting more. (After all, men have traditionally been able to have the family, the garden and the career - what it sounds like you're really saying is that women should aspire to what men have long had.)


Yes that is what I'm saying, if they want to be happy. I don't think the article is saying women are upset because they are not allowed to pursue their expectations but because they are harder to achieve. Lots of men do not have rewarding careers. Lots of men hate their job and only do it to support the other things that are important to them. Throw an additional non-certain requirement for fulfillment on and people will be less fulfilled.

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Gettingstarted1928
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby Gettingstarted1928 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:46 pm

nygrrrl wrote:
cantaboot wrote:I will never denigrate stay-home moms. my mother is one. I think women contribute to society in many different ways and it takes a lot for a well-educated/reasonably eduated woman to give up on her job/career to dedicate herself to children and housework.

what I have looked down on are those women who do not want to work/ have babies and who just want to marry rich and taken well care of.

I think that the power of Women's Liberation is that women now have CHOICES. I am glad we have opportunities our moms and grandmoms never had and I will never look down on a woman for the choices she makes (though I confess to not understanding the women who want to marry rich and be taken care of - that would be so abhorent, to me.)

ETA: fwiw? I revere SAHMs. I wish like heck that I could do what they do - but I can't. I try to learn from them and I think I'm a much better mom for doing so... but I've gotta work outside the house. That's just me.


Seriously. Makes no sense whatsoever. You have to be a pretty damn greedy person when you would rather have expensive shit instead of a husband you actually love. Who are these people?




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