"if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

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keg411
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby keg411 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:48 pm

Gettingstarted1928 wrote:
fatduck wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Gettingstarted1928 wrote:The worst is when working women try to denigrate SAHMs. I never understood why women they feel the need to do this.

Who is doing that?

consider the source. what he really means is that someone at his office took umbrage with his tirades about how a woman's place is in the home.


Riiiiiiight. Fiscal conservatives = people who hate women and want them to be submissive. :roll:


Then again, why don't you offer to be a SAHD to your working wife?


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AreJay711
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby AreJay711 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:49 pm

Gettingstarted1928 wrote:
nygrrrl wrote:
cantaboot wrote:I will never denigrate stay-home moms. my mother is one. I think women contribute to society in many different ways and it takes a lot for a well-educated/reasonably eduated woman to give up on her job/career to dedicate herself to children and housework.

what I have looked down on are those women who do not want to work/ have babies and who just want to marry rich and taken well care of.

I think that the power of Women's Liberation is that women now have CHOICES. I am glad we have opportunities our moms and grandmoms never had and I will never look down on a woman for the choices she makes (though I confess to not understanding the women who want to marry rich and be taken care of - that would be so abhorent, to me.)

ETA: fwiw? I revere SAHMs. I wish like heck that I could do what they do - but I can't. I try to learn from them and I think I'm a much better mom for doing so... but I've gotta work outside the house. That's just me.


Seriously. Makes no sense whatsoever. You have to be a pretty damn greedy person when you would rather have expensive shit instead of a husband you actually love. Who are these people?


Love is a lie. The most you can hope for is someone you can be friendly with.

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nygrrrl
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby nygrrrl » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:50 pm

AreJay711 wrote:Yes that is what I'm saying, if they want to be happy. I don't think the article is saying women are upset because they are not allowed to pursue their expectations but because they are harder to achieve. Lots of men do not have rewarding careers. Lots of men hate their job and only do it to support the other things that are important to them. Throw an additional non-certain requirement for fulfillment on and people will be less fulfilled.

Then I think you're underselling yourself and all of women-kind.
I'm sort of yanking your chain here... but also, NOT.
The problem is that women have been told that we can "have it all" - just like men.
Only the men haven't signed on to that proposal.
So the reality is, I can have family, garden, career... but I also have laundry, shopping, cleaning. Which utterly sucks. And I think that the answer is not to have women strive for less, but to have everyone evaluate what they are good at and what they want. The husband in the picture isn't loving his gig and isn't so great at it? Stay at home! Raise the kids and the carrots! Be happy - and let your wife be happy, doing what she loves. I just think that telling women to lower their expectations isn't thinking the thing through. Maybe we would all be better off it we changed our expectations, across the board, KWIM?

keg411
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby keg411 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:51 pm

Gettingstarted1928 wrote:wut


You said that based on money saved, it's cheaper for one spouse to stay at home. So why don't you offer to be that spouse if both you and your potential wife have the same earning potential? Because it's all about being fiscally conservative, after all.

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Gettingstarted1928
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby Gettingstarted1928 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:53 pm

keg411 wrote:
Gettingstarted1928 wrote:wut


You said that based on money saved, it's cheaper for one spouse to stay at home. So why don't you offer to be that spouse if both you and your potential wife have the same earning potential? Because it's all about being fiscally conservative, after all.


I never said that. You have me mistaken for someone else.

Myself
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Postby Myself » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:56 pm

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Last edited by Myself on Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

keg411
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby keg411 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:57 pm

Gettingstarted1928 wrote:
keg411 wrote:
Gettingstarted1928 wrote:wut


You said that based on money saved, it's cheaper for one spouse to stay at home. So why don't you offer to be that spouse if both you and your potential wife have the same earning potential? Because it's all about being fiscally conservative, after all.


I never said that. You have me mistaken for someone else.


Sorry, I thought it had to do with your "fiscal conservative" post since someone else did say that.

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nygrrrl
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby nygrrrl » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:00 pm

ajax adonis wrote:I honestly think that people's (not just women's) unhappiness is due to a lack of creativity and open-mindedness. One need not be the president to have an "impact on society." One need not dominate in all domains to truly be "satisfied." I'm not telling everyone to aim low but to aim wider.

I think there's something here.
Most of my friends who are miserable (or at least, unhappy) are in jobs they hate or lives they have created through aiming for the dollars. I spent nearly 20 years after college doing a low-paying job that I LOVED and I was totally happy, even when stressing for how to pay rent.
I think we get too caught up in society's expectations of us (and this includes society's expectation that the man will be the hunter/gatherer.) Find your happy, pursue it. Ditch the stuff that makes you miserable.
(So easy to say, I know.)

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AreJay711
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby AreJay711 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:01 pm

nygrrrl wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:Yes that is what I'm saying, if they want to be happy. I don't think the article is saying women are upset because they are not allowed to pursue their expectations but because they are harder to achieve. Lots of men do not have rewarding careers. Lots of men hate their job and only do it to support the other things that are important to them. Throw an additional non-certain requirement for fulfillment on and people will be less fulfilled.

Then I think you're underselling yourself and all of women-kind.
I'm sort of yanking your chain here... but also, NOT.
The problem is that women have been told that we can "have it all" - just like men.
Only the men haven't signed on to that proposal.
So the reality is, I can have family, garden, career... but I also have laundry, shopping, cleaning. Which utterly sucks. And I think that the answer is not to have women strive for less, but to have everyone evaluate what they are good at and what they want. The husband in the picture isn't loving his gig and isn't so great at it? Stay at home! Raise the kids and the carrots! Be happy - and let your wife be happy, doing what she loves. I just think that telling women to lower their expectations isn't thinking the thing through. Maybe we would all be better off it we changed our expectations, across the board, KWIM?


I'm just a Buddhist I guess. I agree that we need to balance the expectations of both sides. But doing what we want is always realistic and it is clear that we don't always get what we want. I'm not saying women shouldn't try to get whatever thing they think will fulfill them, just that desiring more things will just leave more desires unfulfilled.

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nygrrrl
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby nygrrrl » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:06 pm

AreJay711 wrote:I'm just a Buddhist I guess. I agree that we need to balance the expectations of both sides. But doing what we want is always realistic and it is clear that we don't always get what we want. I'm not saying women shouldn't try to get whatever thing they think will fulfill them, just that desiring more things will just leave more desires unfulfilled.

unless they have people around them who help to make those desires a reality.
(and believe me, I hear you - there is a huge debate about this going on right now, among women.)
There are many, many people who told me that aiming for what I'm doing now was ridiculous. Some told me I'd be hurting my kids. But I'm doing it. I'm fulfilled. I love it. My kids are proud of me, I have a great support system. I've started dropping things OUT of my life that aren't working: I have my groceries delivered, I don't feel a need to cook dinner every night (hell, 4 nights out of 7 is the new goal), I don't really care if the baby sitter is the one who taught my kid how to add fractions... and let's not even talk about housekeeping LOLOLOL.
I think that women (and everyone who wants to) should always go for their desires - just know that you will probably have to drop other things that you've valued, to get there.

keg411
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby keg411 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:07 pm

nygrrrl wrote:I think that women (and everyone who wants to) should always go for their desires - just know that you will probably have to drop other things that you've valued, to get there.


But isn't this true for everyone and not just women?

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nygrrrl
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby nygrrrl » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:08 pm

keg411 wrote:
nygrrrl wrote:I think that women (and everyone who wants to) should always go for their desires - just know that you will probably have to drop other things that you've valued, to get there.


But isn't this true for everyone and not just women?

Right, yes - that's why I said, "and everyone who wants to."

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IAFG
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby IAFG » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:13 pm

AreJay711 wrote:
Gettingstarted1928 wrote:
Seriously. Makes no sense whatsoever. You have to be a pretty damn greedy person when you would rather have expensive shit instead of a husband you actually love. Who are these people?


Love is a lie. The most you can hope for is someone you can be friendly with.

I don't think love it a lie.

I also have plenty of expensive shit though. Some from my husband. I don't think false dichotomies are very useful.

Myself
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Postby Myself » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:13 pm

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Last edited by Myself on Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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30-Something
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby 30-Something » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:17 pm

Four years ago, at the age of 28, I decided I wanted to go back to school to finish my BA so that I could pursue law school and a legal career. I put myself through four years of undergrad while working 60+ hours a week and graduated with a 4.0.

COULD NOT have done that without my fiance. He and I have been together for 7 years, engaged for 4. We put off the wedding and babies until after school is over and I'm settled in my career. He's the one who did the laundry, fed me, cleaned the house, bought the groceries and basically, kept us from being featured on a very special episode of Hoarders.

The point is that you can be married and successful. You just have to make sure the person you intend to marry is a true partner. Which should be the rule of thumb, anyway, I suppose.

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nygrrrl
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby nygrrrl » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:18 pm

ajax adonis wrote:
keg411 wrote:
nygrrrl wrote:I think that women (and everyone who wants to) should always go for their desires - just know that you will probably have to drop other things that you've valued, to get there.


But isn't this true for everyone and not just women?


Nuff said.

Exactly. :)

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Julio_El_Chavo
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:22 pm

Gettingstarted1928 wrote:
nygrrrl wrote:
cantaboot wrote:I will never denigrate stay-home moms. my mother is one. I think women contribute to society in many different ways and it takes a lot for a well-educated/reasonably eduated woman to give up on her job/career to dedicate herself to children and housework.

what I have looked down on are those women who do not want to work/ have babies and who just want to marry rich and taken well care of.

I think that the power of Women's Liberation is that women now have CHOICES. I am glad we have opportunities our moms and grandmoms never had and I will never look down on a woman for the choices she makes (though I confess to not understanding the women who want to marry rich and be taken care of - that would be so abhorent, to me.)

ETA: fwiw? I revere SAHMs. I wish like heck that I could do what they do - but I can't. I try to learn from them and I think I'm a much better mom for doing so... but I've gotta work outside the house. That's just me.


Seriously. Makes no sense whatsoever. You have to be a pretty damn greedy person when you would rather have expensive shit instead of a husband you actually love. Who are these people?


ZGallery furniture >> husband. HTH

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msblaw89
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby msblaw89 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:28 pm

I think there is a catch 22 no matter what. If a woman decides to be a SAHM, at some point in the marriage I would imagine the husband harboring resentment. If the husband has a high power, high paying, work-a-holic job and sees his wife having a more "leisurely" lifestyle (could be an unwarranted assumption) he will probably become angry and money controlling. He may feel that it is all his money, since it is a one income household which would cause stress on the relationship. On the flip side, if the wife and husband have high power, high paying jobs there could be career wars. For example, if the wife has a great 160k job at XYZ firm in NYC and the husband is another professional who just got transferred to another state or even another country then what? What if this scenario happens multiple times on either side? Eventually sacrifices will have to be made one way or the other. This is my scenario....My fiancee has a great position in a large company who is already moving up the ladder...his hope is to get into his corporate office one day ( he will likely have to transfer multiple times), while I want to work biglaw. This is going to be tough

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Borg
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby Borg » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:28 pm

The anon dickhead from page 1 sounds like every reason that I hate law school. Enjoy being a biglaw "baller" dude, I hope you manage to spend enough time in the office that you never hear the laughter of the people who make just as much or more money free from the constriction of billable hours and mock your obsessive, shitty lifestyle. Also, good luck ever making friends with anybody cool, much less finding someone who isn't totally horrific to marry you. Grades, law review, the school you go to, and Vault are all fucking stupid, and if you can't see that then you really aren't very smart.

tl;dr version: suck it, loser.

09042014
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby 09042014 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:33 pm

Gettingstarted1928 wrote:The worst is when working women try to denigrate SAHMs. I never understood why women they feel the need to do this.


GUILT

Anonymous User
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:34 pm

i tried to explain law review to non-law people. no problem. they got it.

"it are pretty weird, isn't it? students evaluating professors' work ..."
"yeah."

09042014
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby 09042014 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:35 pm

Borg wrote:The anon dickhead from page 1 sounds like every reason that I hate law school. Enjoy being a biglaw "baller" dude, I hope you manage to spend enough time in the office that you never hear the laughter of the people who make just as much or more money free from the constriction of billable hours and mock your obsessive, shitty lifestyle. Also, good luck ever making friends with anybody cool, much less finding someone who isn't totally horrific to marry you. Grades, law review, the school you go to, and Vault are all fucking stupid, and if you can't see that then you really aren't very smart.

tl;dr version: suck it, loser.


Also, this kind of douchebag doesn't really last long in big law anyway. Different kinds of dbags thrive in big law, but the gunner "can't socialize with non-lawyers" kind doesn't last long.

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nygrrrl
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby nygrrrl » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:41 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Gettingstarted1928 wrote:The worst is when working women try to denigrate SAHMs. I never understood why women they feel the need to do this.


GUILT

LOL. hai, Foxy Fox!

09042014
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."

Postby 09042014 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:43 pm

nygrrrl wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Gettingstarted1928 wrote:The worst is when working women try to denigrate SAHMs. I never understood why women they feel the need to do this.


GUILT

LOL. hai, Foxy Fox!


Hey how is it going?




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