obama's america. the pursuit of happiness is dead as everyone just wants a handout.Julio_El_Chavo wrote:I'm curious what you think has caused this?quakeroats wrote:I should note, however, that there is one exception. The United States has gotten wealthier over the last 40 years and we haven't gotten any happier on average.
"if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married." Forum
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- fatduck
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."
- SuperCerealBrah
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."
bk187 wrote:I think we can all agree on one thing: no matter who you marry, odds are your marriage will probably either fail or be miserable.
Hey, its kind of similar odds to whether you get a legal job or not (nationally speaking not school specific) lol
- IAFG
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."
We don't have to rely on what I do or don't believe. We can look at the empirical evidence. http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/ ... moms_.htmlJulio_El_Chavo wrote:
I was strictly speaking in terms of dollars and cents. I 100% agree with you on this: if a woman isn't happy because she's not working, she should work. There are definitely women like this.
I know you might have a hard time believing it, but some women actually want to be SAHMs.
- IAFG
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."
Who is doing that?Gettingstarted1928 wrote:The worst is when working women try to denigrate SAHMs. I never understood why women they feel the need to do this.
- fatduck
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."
consider the source. what he really means is that someone at his office took umbrage with his tirades about how a woman's place is in the home.IAFG wrote:Who is doing that?Gettingstarted1928 wrote:The worst is when working women try to denigrate SAHMs. I never understood why women they feel the need to do this.
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- Julio_El_Chavo
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."
Using this logic, lawyers are, on average, more depressed than the rest of society. So why the fuck did you decide to become a lawyer?IAFG wrote:We don't have to rely on what I do or don't believe. We can look at the empirical evidence. http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/ ... moms_.htmlJulio_El_Chavo wrote:
I was strictly speaking in terms of dollars and cents. I 100% agree with you on this: if a woman isn't happy because she's not working, she should work. There are definitely women like this.
I know you might have a hard time believing it, but some women actually want to be SAHMs.
- nygrrrl
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."
Actually, in NYC the debate is vicious and there are ugly, ugly people on both sides. SAHMs attacking Working moms and vice versa. I've found the former to be much more prevalent, however.IAFG wrote:Who is doing that?Gettingstarted1928 wrote:The worst is when working women try to denigrate SAHMs. I never understood why women they feel the need to do this.
- Bildungsroman
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."
IAFG, is the legal employment forum really the best place for you to continuously try to validate your life choices?
- Gettingstarted1928
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."
Riiiiiiight. Fiscal conservatives = people who hate women and want them to be submissive.fatduck wrote:consider the source. what he really means is that someone at his office took umbrage with his tirades about how a woman's place is in the home.IAFG wrote:Who is doing that?Gettingstarted1928 wrote:The worst is when working women try to denigrate SAHMs. I never understood why women they feel the need to do this.
- quakeroats
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."
I have a few theories, but here are a few from the article:Julio_El_Chavo wrote:I'm curious what you think has caused this?quakeroats wrote:I should note, however, that there is one exception. The United States has gotten wealthier over the last 40 years and we haven't gotten any happier on average.
We have several theories. There may be large-scale social trends that we don't think of as being gendered that might have disproportionately made women less satisfied with their lives. Robert Putnam’s book Bowling Alone talked about the phenomenon of decreasing social cohesion. It is possible a social trend like that could be having an impact.
It also could be women's changed expectations. There are two ways of thinking about this. One is simply that women expect a lot today and their expectations have moved faster than society has been able to deliver, and so we have a bigger gap between expectations and what society is actually delivering. Women may have expected to be sexually harassed in the 1970s, and they got sexually harassed, so there wasn't an expectations gap. Today, women may expect to not be sexually harassed and yet sexual harassment still occurs — at a lower rate than in the 1970s, but it definitely still occurs — and so there might actually be more dissatisfaction today, simply because the expectations moved more sharply than the actual members of society could change their behavior.
Another way to think about it is that women might be expecting themselves to succeed in many different domains, and it is simply harder to have a truly blissful life in many, many domains. An MBA student told me her mother's idea of the perfect life was having children who are thriving and her home and garden well kept. Her mom always considered herself happy. The student added, I still want my children to thrive, and I still want to have a nice home and garden, but I also want to make a broader contribution to society. I want to have a career with work that's meaningful. To be really happy, I need to be thriving in all those dimensions, and that's just harder to achieve.
- fatduck
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- Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:16 pm
Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."
i've never met a fiscal conservative so i couldn't tell you that. it seems to be a commonly-held belief among republican douches, though.Gettingstarted1928 wrote:Riiiiiiight. Fiscal conservatives = people who hate women and want them to be submissive.fatduck wrote:consider the source. what he really means is that someone at his office took umbrage with his tirades about how a woman's place is in the home.IAFG wrote:Who is doing that?Gettingstarted1928 wrote:The worst is when working women try to denigrate SAHMs. I never understood why women they feel the need to do this.
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- AreJay711
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."
The bold is the correct answer. Raising expectations is always the wrong move.quakeroats wrote:I have a few theories, but here are a few from the article:Julio_El_Chavo wrote:I'm curious what you think has caused this?quakeroats wrote:I should note, however, that there is one exception. The United States has gotten wealthier over the last 40 years and we haven't gotten any happier on average.
We have several theories. There may be large-scale social trends that we don't think of as being gendered that might have disproportionately made women less satisfied with their lives. Robert Putnam’s book Bowling Alone talked about the phenomenon of decreasing social cohesion. It is possible a social trend like that could be having an impact.
It also could be women's changed expectations. There are two ways of thinking about this. One is simply that women expect a lot today and their expectations have moved faster than society has been able to deliver, and so we have a bigger gap between expectations and what society is actually delivering. Women may have expected to be sexually harassed in the 1970s, and they got sexually harassed, so there wasn't an expectations gap. Today, women may expect to not be sexually harassed and yet sexual harassment still occurs — at a lower rate than in the 1970s, but it definitely still occurs — and so there might actually be more dissatisfaction today, simply because the expectations moved more sharply than the actual members of society could change their behavior.
Another way to think about it is that women might be expecting themselves to succeed in many different domains, and it is simply harder to have a truly blissful life in many, many domains. An MBA student told me her mother's idea of the perfect life was having children who are thriving and her home and garden well kept. Her mom always considered herself happy. The student added, I still want my children to thrive, and I still want to have a nice home and garden, but I also want to make a broader contribution to society. I want to have a career with work that's meaningful. To be really happy, I need to be thriving in all those dimensions, and that's just harder to achieve.
- nygrrrl
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."
So, "You get what you get and don't be upset?"AreJay711 wrote: The bold is the correct answer. Raising expectations is always the wrong move.
- Gettingstarted1928
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."
Somebody needs to leave their bubble.i've never met a fiscal conservative so i couldn't tell you that. it seems to be a commonly-held belief among republican douches, though.
- AreJay711
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."
Generally that is the correct solution to life. Or to just be happy with what you are able to achieve then let everything else do which would still allow high aspirations, just not exceptions.nygrrrl wrote:So, "You get what you get and don't be upset?"AreJay711 wrote: The bold is the correct answer. Raising expectations is always the wrong move.
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- cantaboot
- Posts: 204
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."
I will never denigrate stay-home moms. my mother is one. I think women contribute to society in many different ways and it takes a lot for a well-educated/reasonably eduated woman to give up on her job/career to dedicate herself to children and housework.
what I have looked down on are those women who do not want to work/ have babies and who just want to marry rich and taken well care of.
what I have looked down on are those women who do not want to work/ have babies and who just want to marry rich and taken well care of.
- nygrrrl
- Posts: 4434
- Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:01 am
Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."
Oh I see. So women should accept what they have traditionally been given and not try to raise expectations.AreJay711 wrote:Generally that is the correct solution to life. Or to just be happy with what you are able to achieve then let everything else do which would still allow high aspirations, just not exceptions.nygrrrl wrote:So, "You get what you get and don't be upset?"AreJay711 wrote: The bold is the correct answer. Raising expectations is always the wrong move.
See, what I don't get is, why don't men lower their expectations? Maybe the answer is for both sides to alter the way they see the issue, not to tell women to quit wanting more. (After all, men have traditionally been able to have the family, the garden and the career - what it sounds like you're really saying is that women should not aspire to what men have long had.)
- Gettingstarted1928
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."
TITCRcantaboot wrote:I will never denigrate stay-home moms. my mother is one. I think women contribute to society in many different ways and it takes a lot for a well-educated/reasonably eduated woman to give up on her job/career to dedicate herself to children and housework.
what I have looked down on are those women who do not want to work/ have babies and who just want to marry rich and taken well care of.
- nygrrrl
- Posts: 4434
- Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:01 am
Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."
I think that the power of Women's Liberation is that women now have CHOICES. I am glad we have opportunities our moms and grandmoms never had and I will never look down on a woman for the choices she makes (though I confess to not understanding the women who want to marry rich and be taken care of - that would be so abhorent, to me.)cantaboot wrote:I will never denigrate stay-home moms. my mother is one. I think women contribute to society in many different ways and it takes a lot for a well-educated/reasonably eduated woman to give up on her job/career to dedicate herself to children and housework.
what I have looked down on are those women who do not want to work/ have babies and who just want to marry rich and taken well care of.
ETA: fwiw? I revere SAHMs. I wish like heck that I could do what they do - but I can't. I try to learn from them and I think I'm a much better mom for doing so... but I've gotta work outside the house. That's just me.
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- IAFG
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."
I said on page one that having children is ill-advised.Bildungsroman wrote:IAFG, is the legal employment forum really the best place for you to continuously try to validate your life choices?
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."
This x10000bk187 wrote:I think we can all agree on one thing: no matter who you marry, odds are your marriage will probably either fail or be miserable.
I'd only add "if you are a working professional" to the beginning.
- AreJay711
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Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."
Yes that is what I'm saying, if they want to be happy. I don't think the article is saying women are upset because they are not allowed to pursue their expectations but because they are harder to achieve. Lots of men do not have rewarding careers. Lots of men hate their job and only do it to support the other things that are important to them. Throw an additional non-certain requirement for fulfillment on and people will be less fulfilled.nygrrrl wrote:Oh I see. So women should accept what they have traditionally been given and not try to raise expectations.AreJay711 wrote:Generally that is the correct solution to life. Or to just be happy with what you are able to achieve then let everything else do which would still allow high aspirations, just not exceptions.nygrrrl wrote:So, "You get what you get and don't be upset?"AreJay711 wrote: The bold is the correct answer. Raising expectations is always the wrong move.
See, what I don't get is, why don't men lower their expectations? Maybe the answer is for both sides to alter the way they see the issue, not to tell women to quit wanting more. (After all, men have traditionally been able to have the family, the garden and the career - what it sounds like you're really saying is that women should aspire to what men have long had.)
- Gettingstarted1928
- Posts: 407
- Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:45 pm
Re: "if you want to be a successful lawyer, don't get married."
Seriously. Makes no sense whatsoever. You have to be a pretty damn greedy person when you would rather have expensive shit instead of a husband you actually love. Who are these people?nygrrrl wrote:I think that the power of Women's Liberation is that women now have CHOICES. I am glad we have opportunities our moms and grandmoms never had and I will never look down on a woman for the choices she makes (though I confess to not understanding the women who want to marry rich and be taken care of - that would be so abhorent, to me.)cantaboot wrote:I will never denigrate stay-home moms. my mother is one. I think women contribute to society in many different ways and it takes a lot for a well-educated/reasonably eduated woman to give up on her job/career to dedicate herself to children and housework.
what I have looked down on are those women who do not want to work/ have babies and who just want to marry rich and taken well care of.
ETA: fwiw? I revere SAHMs. I wish like heck that I could do what they do - but I can't. I try to learn from them and I think I'm a much better mom for doing so... but I've gotta work outside the house. That's just me.
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