UVA Transfer Critique my Bidlist Please

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PlessFightsFire
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UVA Transfer Critique my Bidlist Please

Postby PlessFightsFire » Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:46 am

1
Last edited by PlessFightsFire on Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UVA Transfer Critique my Bidlist Please

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:50 am

Did you get the firm charts from OCS? Anyway I'm a rising 2L at UVa so take it fwiw, but your list doesn't look too aggressive. From what I've heard Cleary, A&P, and Ropes NY are pretty substantial reaches with a 3.4, but it might be worth a shot to you since I'm guessing transfers are a little less predictable.

PlessFightsFire
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Re: UVA Transfer Critique my Bidlist Please

Postby PlessFightsFire » Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:00 am

Yeah I thought it made sense to have about 10 reaches and then load up the rest with firms that were within the range they gave me but obviously who knows.

Does splitting NYC and DC make sense or should I just be pouring all my bids into NYC? I want a job, like both markets but I want a job.

Anybody have any idea about my order? At my old school bidlist really didn't matter so the concept of ninja bidding / al other strategies kind of escapes me. Currently I'm just most competitive to least competitive, does that not make sense? I've seen people say they do theres in groups of ten mixing ultra competitive, competitive, and safes within each group.

Thanks sorry, I'm lost with 36 hours to go

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Re: UVA Transfer Critique my Bidlist Please

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:58 am

No offense but there are way too many reaches on there.

DC is a tough market to crack into, and you are bidding on a lot of very competitive NY firms.

I would suggest bidding more VA firms and other secondary markets.

PlessFightsFire
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Re: UVA Transfer Critique my Bidlist Please

Postby PlessFightsFire » Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:25 am

No offense taken, I'm really swimming more than a bit blind here. I totally get what your saying about both DC and the high NYC firms. Are there any firms not on here that you would suggest make sense?

Btw three years of pretty solid WE that would translate to transactional work or at least can be sold as such.

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Gecko of Doom
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Re: UVA Transfer Critique my Bidlist Please

Postby Gecko of Doom » Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:53 am

Just a rising 2L here, so others may know better than I do, but based on collective TLS wisdom plus conversations with Career Services:

I think some of your reaches (like Arnold & Porter, Cleary, probably Ropes) aren't worth bidding on. More realistic reaches (and this is assuming the "bid like a 3.4" advice is correct) would be Skadden, DPW, and Simpson.

The problem with bidding in the order you currently have them (roughly "hardest" to "easiest") is that the "easy" firms are all very heavily bid, so you're not going to get lottery interviews with them ranked that low. This means there's a realistic chance that all of your lottery interviews will be with reaches, which is dangerous. The strategy Career Services recommended is to break up your bidlist into sets of five (at least for the first fifteen or twenty bids, where order actually matters). In each set of five, put one or two large reaches, one or two small reaches, and one or two safeties (proportions depending on risk tolerance, soft factors, etc.). This gives you a better chance of getting lottery interviews with both reaches and safeties.

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rayiner
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Re: UVA Transfer Critique my Bidlist Please

Postby rayiner » Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:21 pm

What is a 3.4 at UVA? Top 1/4?

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pertristis
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Re: UVA Transfer Critique my Bidlist Please

Postby pertristis » Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:25 pm

rayiner wrote:What is a 3.4 at UVA? Top 1/4?


Probably around top 1/3. Top 1/4 is 3.48.

PlessFightsFire
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Re: UVA Transfer Critique my Bidlist Please

Postby PlessFightsFire » Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:39 pm

Thanks Gecko that makes a good deal of sense (both switching the reaches and reording my bids into sets)

In answer to the cutoff question I believe 3.48 is top 25% cutoff.

Are there hospitality suites at UVA? Ability to show up morning of and sign up for inexplicably open slots (I've heard this happens at UChicago)?

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Re: UVA Transfer Critique my Bidlist Please

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:12 pm

One suggestion - I would move this question to the UVA OGI thread - you might get more responses.

One thought - I think that career services might be underselling you. I would think that top 10% at UIUC ~ top 25% at UVA?

Couple critiques:

- you should bid Wiley Rein DC. Over the past several years, they have hired at least 1 UVA transfer per year. They pay a touch below market (~145k I think), but otherwise they are a well respected DC firm.

- you should bid GDC NYC. Over the past several years, they have also hired UVA transfer students.

- I would probably consider bidding on Steptoe DC and Hunton DC.

- I would get rid of all the double city bids. In other words, for example, I would not bid both Cleary NYC and Cleary DC. Unless you really want to do antitrust work, there's no point in going to Cleary DC. Likewise, I doubt if a firm like Chapman & Cutler has more than a handful of SA's in DC - not worth wasting a bid on. Most of your DC offices of NYC firms that you have bid on I would probably switch to NYC. Usually bigger SA classes and less grade/transfer snobby.

- if there's any possibility that you would have an interest in tax, if might be worth bidding on Caplin & Drysdale, though they might be a little grade snobby. Likewise, if you have any interest in ERISA, you should bid on The Groom Law Group (well respected ERISA boutique in DC).

- unless you have ties to Boston, the Boston bids are probably a waste. I could be completely off, but the only people I have seen get Boston are either: (a) very high GPA or (b) pretty good GPA + from Boston. For example, you'd probably be a better sell at Goodwin Proctor DC than Goodwin Boston.

- on a couple of the Chicago firms, you might have better luck with the Chicago office since you're coming from UIUC (I'm thinking Katten Muchin in particular).

- if your ties to DC are ties to Virginia, you could, cautiously, consider Richmond firms other than McGuirewoods (perhaps Leclair Ryan or Williams Mullen). I would want real Virginia ties before I did that, however.

-'12 Grad (from UVA OGI thread)

PlessFightsFire
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Re: UVA Transfer Critique my Bidlist Please

Postby PlessFightsFire » Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:13 pm

In terms of Skadden does it make more sense to bid NYC or DC, they are above 3.5* for NYC but have a larger class and gave out 15+ callbacks on average. Does that mean chances are higher or is that a self selection thing of people going for the brass ring of prestige?

PlessFightsFire
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Re: UVA Transfer Critique my Bidlist Please

Postby PlessFightsFire » Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:29 pm

Thank you a ton 12 grad from OGI thread I'm moving some things around per your recommendations and those of some other helpfult TLSers and I'll repost in the OGI thread.

I went to undergrad in Boston (not H) and have a lot of friends up there I'm not sure if that counts but I could probably spin it as such.

thanks!

Anyone else with thoughts or suggestions I would love to hear them I will likely post a revised bidlist split into groups of 5...

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rayiner
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Re: UVA Transfer Critique my Bidlist Please

Postby rayiner » Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:32 pm

I don't think top 10% at UIUC = top 1/3 at UVA is underselling at all. Last year UIUC only sent 11% to any NLJ250 firm. Top 1/4 at UVA has a solid shot at several of the V10.

Also, Wiley pays $160 but they also have a $125k track for 1800 hours.

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Re: UVA Transfer Critique my Bidlist Please

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:37 pm

PlessFightsFire wrote:In terms of Skadden does it make more sense to bid NYC or DC, they are above 3.5* for NYC but have a larger class and gave out 15+ callbacks on average. Does that mean chances are higher or is that a self selection thing of people going for the brass ring of prestige?


You could bid both because they have separate recruiting. If you are only going to bid one, I would bid NYC. I think they give a lot of callbacks and a lot of offers. Honestly, based on callbacks, I liked their NYC office more than their DC office. I know a lot of people my year who got offers (at least 4-5) from Skadden NYC and everyone I know turned down the offer from Skadden. That said, they had a small class size my summer and were probably trying too hard to get the people who would normally go to S&C (which is where several of my classmates ended up instead).

-'12 Grad

PlessFightsFire
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Re: UVA Transfer Critique my Bidlist Please

Postby PlessFightsFire » Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:07 pm

rayiner wrote:I don't think top 10% at UIUC = top 1/3 at UVA is underselling at all. Last year UIUC only sent 11% to any NLJ250 firm. Top 1/4 at UVA has a solid shot at several of the V10.

Also, Wiley pays $160 but they also have a $125k track for 1800 hours.


And I felt pretty sexy for a moment, what firms would you be saying rayiner?

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rayiner
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Re: UVA Transfer Critique my Bidlist Please

Postby rayiner » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:59 pm

PlessFightsFire wrote:
rayiner wrote:I don't think top 10% at UIUC = top 1/3 at UVA is underselling at all. Last year UIUC only sent 11% to any NLJ250 firm. Top 1/4 at UVA has a solid shot at several of the V10.

Also, Wiley pays $160 but they also have a $125k track for 1800 hours.


And I felt pretty sexy for a moment, what firms would you be saying rayiner?


Do you want corp or lit? How important is DC versus NYC?

PlessFightsFire
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Re: UVA Transfer Critique my Bidlist Please

Postby PlessFightsFire » Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:17 pm

I'm leaning towards corporate work. I have almost no preference on city. My biggest concern is employment.

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rayiner
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Re: UVA Transfer Critique my Bidlist Please

Postby rayiner » Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:30 pm

PlessFightsFire wrote:I'm leaning towards corporate work. I have almost no preference on city. My biggest concern is employment.


DC doesn't do good corporate work, why all the DC bids?

Bid your targets (Milbank, Fried Frank, White & Case, Jones Day, Shearman, etc) high, along with a couple of top reaches (Weil, K&E). Bid your safeties below that (Proskauer, Greenberg Traurig, etc). Bid selective reaches low (Skadden, DPW, Simpson, Cleary), since they're unlikely to be so popular as to require high bids.

PlessFightsFire
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Re: UVA Transfer Critique my Bidlist Please

Postby PlessFightsFire » Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:32 pm

I think there is increasingly more corporate work being done out of DC offices of large firms and this is shown by NALP. If I'm wrong please explain it to me always open to more knowledge.

Also its my home market and it was either that or my bidding would be even more reach heavy than it already is. Thanks for the firm ideas, hopefully my next iteration makes a little more sense.

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Re: UVA Transfer Critique my Bidlist Please

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:41 pm

PlessFightsFire wrote:I think there is increasingly more corporate work being done out of DC offices of large firms and this is shown by NALP. If I'm wrong please explain it to me always open to more knowledge.

Also its my home market and it was either that or my bidding would be even more reach heavy than it already is. Thanks for the firm ideas, hopefully my next iteration makes a little more sense.


I have to disagree. NALP is also notoriously inaccurate with that stuff. I've asked firms about their practice areas I looked up on NALP and many were like "actually, we don't really do that." As someone who interviewed with DC firms looking for corporate work and from interacting with associates, I can tell you it's limited. There is more "regulation-type corporate work," but this certainly isn't the type of corporate work you probably imagine doing unless you want your future to be working with FINRA/NFA/SEC/CFTC-type stuff.

There are some firms that do corporate work (like Latham for example), but even then, it's not going to be the same top notch work you'd get in NY (in deal size and/or sophistication). Latham DC will do some corporate work (does a lot of Carlyle originated work, but even the Carlyle work doesn't all go to Latham and their lackluster IPO hasn't helped its deal flow). But then, you can even compare it to Latham NY and they are working on the Manchester United IPO which is much more complex, higher stakes, and higher profile.

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Re: UVA Transfer Critique my Bidlist Please

Postby PlessFightsFire » Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:44 pm

Makes sense with regards to dc corporate work, thanks anonymous

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Re: UVA Transfer Critique my Bidlist Please

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:47 pm

I just think that if you have no preference for city, and you want to do corporate work, then obviously go to NY.

The people who I think go to DC to do corporate work are people who have commitments to DC or have an absolute preference for DC over NY. I would imagine there's virtually no one (maybe minor exceptions for obscure regulatory work, but even then the NY firms naturally have strong regulatory practices with regards to corporate issues) who with no preference for anything, besides doing corporate work, would go to DC over NY for corporate work.

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Re: UVA Transfer Critique my Bidlist Please

Postby PlessFightsFire » Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:50 pm

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Re: UVA Transfer Critique my Bidlist Please

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:59 pm

Disclaimer: this advice is based off the top where you said you are "like a 3.4 at UVA." I have no clue whether thats true or not but assuming they do treat you like a 3.4 at UVA, I'd say the following:

Cleary NY is a wasted bid. I don't see that happening at all. They are more grade snobby and also tend to not like/hire many UVA (I'm not even sure if they even have anyone from UVA this year). Does Milbank DC have a big class? I'd probably put some mid-range NY firms that have big classes higher on your list because sometimes those can be a challenge to get in front of; i.e. Latham NY (though some people feel morally opposed to working there), Willkie NY, Milbank NY, Chadbourne NY.

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Re: UVA Transfer Critique my Bidlist Please

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:22 pm

If you don't care where you work, and you want to do corporate work, there's no reason to bid anything other than NYC and the market of your old school (Chicago). Bidding DC not only doesn't make sense, it increases your likelihood of not getting a job. Bid all NYC and Kirkland Chicago.




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