St. Louis Biglaw Summer Associate Taking Questions

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lakerinstl
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Re: St. Louis Biglaw Summer Associate Taking Questions

Postby lakerinstl » Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:06 am

Great thread! I'm going to Mizzou in the fall, and I know you spoke a little about them, but do you still see a good number of Mizzou alum at your firm? I'm pretty sure St. Louis is where I want to practice. Born and raised here, went to undergrad here, all of that.

Also, do you think Mizzou grads/1Ls/2Ls have to get higher grades than those at SLU or Wash U to secure a position at an StL biglaw?

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Re: St. Louis Biglaw Summer Associate Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:10 am

lakerinstl wrote:Great thread! I'm going to Mizzou in the fall, and I know you spoke a little about them, but do you still see a good number of Mizzou alum at your firm? I'm pretty sure St. Louis is where I want to practice. Born and raised here, went to undergrad here, all of that.

Also, do you think Mizzou grads/1Ls/2Ls have to get higher grades than those at SLU or Wash U to secure a position at an StL biglaw?


There are a number of Mizzou grads at the firms but their alums aren't as active as SLU's, I think. Most firms that hire more than a couple summers hold spots for SLU students, but I'm pretty confident that the same cannot be said for Mizzou students. Grades are probably commensurate with what you'd expect to need for biglaw out of a school ranked at around 80: Top 5-10% to have a shot.

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Re: St. Louis Biglaw Summer Associate Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:30 am

For the SLU people, does it seem like those held spots go pretty much entirely to people who are from St. Louis and also went to SLU, or does going to SLU alone enough to open up their alumni network within the city?

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Re: St. Louis Biglaw Summer Associate Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:For the SLU people, does it seem like those held spots go pretty much entirely to people who are from St. Louis and also went to SLU, or does going to SLU alone enough to open up their alumni network within the city?



Hard to say. There might be some self-selection going on, but most people I know from SLU are from St. Louis or the surrounding areas (including Southern Illinois). I doubt the SLU spots are held for St. Louis natives specifically, though. I think going to SLU is enough to get that networking boost, as long as you still have communicable reasons for wanting to stay in the region.

lakerinstl
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Re: St. Louis Biglaw Summer Associate Taking Questions

Postby lakerinstl » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
lakerinstl wrote:Great thread! I'm going to Mizzou in the fall, and I know you spoke a little about them, but do you still see a good number of Mizzou alum at your firm? I'm pretty sure St. Louis is where I want to practice. Born and raised here, went to undergrad here, all of that.

Also, do you think Mizzou grads/1Ls/2Ls have to get higher grades than those at SLU or Wash U to secure a position at an StL biglaw?


There are a number of Mizzou grads at the firms but their alums aren't as active as SLU's, I think. Most firms that hire more than a couple summers hold spots for SLU students, but I'm pretty confident that the same cannot be said for Mizzou students. Grades are probably commensurate with what you'd expect to need for biglaw out of a school ranked at around 80: Top 5-10% to have a shot.

Would you say that Mizzou still gets first options before most non regional schools though?

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Re: St. Louis Biglaw Summer Associate Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:05 pm

If I did my math correctly, you are stating that there are about 40-50 SA total spots with St. Louis Biglaw, of which 15 or so go to 1Ls, primarily HB and LR, which is consistent with my understanding. Normally, these mostly go to those in top 5-10% of the class, about half SLU and WUSTL and some other top tier firms. Does not leave much for Mizzou and my understanding is that it is rare for more than one Mizzou grad to be hired by any particular firm. Mizzou has had its share of controversy lately too which does not help and feeds a lot of attorneys to Jefferson City and surrounding more rural areas and KC.

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Re: St. Louis Biglaw Summer Associate Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:If I did my math correctly, you are stating that there are about 40-50 SA total spots with St. Louis Biglaw, of which 15 or so go to 1Ls, primarily HB and LR, which is consistent with my understanding. Normally, these mostly go to those in top 5-10% of the class, about half SLU and WUSTL and some other top tier firms. Does not leave much for Mizzou and my understanding is that it is rare for more than one Mizzou grad to be hired by any particular firm. Mizzou has had its share of controversy lately too which does not help and feeds a lot of attorneys to Jefferson City and surrounding more rural areas and KC.


Op here.

Yep, that sounds right. I think there are very few SAs in the market who don't go to WashU/SLU/T14. The ones that do are top of their class at their respective schools and probably interviewed really well. I don't get the impression that any spots are saved for Mizzou students: They're just lumped in with the "other regional school applicants."

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Re: St. Louis Biglaw Summer Associate Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:17 pm

Thanks OP. Very helpful thread for those interested in the market.

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Re: St. Louis Biglaw Summer Associate Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks OP. Very helpful thread for those interested in the market.


No problem. I'm curious to hear what this year's class of OCI-ers is thinking/hearing about various firms in the market....

How are you ranking them? What news/rumors are affecting your decisions?

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Re: St. Louis Biglaw Summer Associate Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:12 pm

I just tried to bid highly on the firms with larger classes (i.e. BC, Husch, TC) and not so much on firms like Greensfelder and Lewis Rice who either have small classes or are notorious for having a bunch of 1L SAs and just offering them. I'm getting a little paranoid about not getting any interviews in STL because I'm from the Midwest but not STL, but my grades are solid and I ran my cover letter past my LRW professor and he said it was convincing as to my desire to stay.

OP, I know this is pure conjecture, but what type of grades do you think are necessary from WUSTL to get some interviews at the big firms (BC, Husch, TC, AT, Polsinelli, SNR Denton, Lewis Rice etc.)? Assuming that the firm is somewhat satisfied with the applicant's ties/desire to stay in the area.

Also I'd heard some news about Sandberg Phoenix losing a pretty large case recently, but they weren't on the first list of firms for early interview week.

And thanks a lot. This is very helpful.

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beachbum
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Re: St. Louis Biglaw Summer Associate Taking Questions

Postby beachbum » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:47 pm

Any word on SNR Denton? I know their STL office is small, but I've heard next to nothing about it.

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Re: St. Louis Biglaw Summer Associate Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:43 pm

I thought you might know something about the firm Brown & James. http://www.bjpc.com/content/140/st-louis-missouri.aspx

Heard stories about them? How respected are they? How do their associates like it? Any information really would be welcome.

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Re: St. Louis Biglaw Summer Associate Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I just tried to bid highly on the firms with larger classes (i.e. BC, Husch, TC) and not so much on firms like Greensfelder and Lewis Rice who either have small classes or are notorious for having a bunch of 1L SAs and just offering them. I'm getting a little paranoid about not getting any interviews in STL because I'm from the Midwest but not STL, but my grades are solid and I ran my cover letter past my LRW professor and he said it was convincing as to my desire to stay.

OP, I know this is pure conjecture, but what type of grades do you think are necessary from WUSTL to get some interviews at the big firms (BC, Husch, TC, AT, Polsinelli, SNR Denton, Lewis Rice etc.)? Assuming that the firm is somewhat satisfied with the applicant's ties/desire to stay in the area.

Also I'd heard some news about Sandberg Phoenix losing a pretty large case recently, but they weren't on the first list of firms for early interview week.

And thanks a lot. This is very helpful.


Yeah, but which are your dream firms? For the grades: I think you'd probably want to be in the top 10ish percent to get a look.

As for Sandberg; I have to admit I don't know a ton about them, just that they're a step or two below the big firms in the market. They may have lost a big case but they're a big enough shop that losing one case shouldn't hurt them too badly: If it does, you don't want to work there anyway.

beachbum wrote:Any word on SNR Denton? I know their STL office is small, but I've heard next to nothing about it.


Tiny, tiny office. Pretty sure they've got no summer program in St. Louis this year. Doesn't really count as STL biglaw at all. They're on one floor in the Metropolitan Square building (just below BC's 7 floor suite at the top, in fact) and they don't make much of an impact in the market. They maintain an office and get some work that they spread to their other midwestern offices in KC and Chicago. Of course, they've got good resources and talented people, but they're not considered a market heavyweight by any stretch.

Anonymous User wrote:I thought you might know something about the firm Brown & James. http://www.bjpc.com/content/140/st-louis-missouri.aspx

Heard stories about them? How respected are they? How do their associates like it? Any information really would be welcome.


They're okay. I've never once heard them mentioned with the other firms in this thread, and probably for good reason: they're just far, far too small to handle the matters that the other firms do at the rates the other firms can do it. I've also heard, anecdotally, that the pay is pretty low compared to the other firms (again, this makes sense!). All in all: I think people around the middle of the class at WashU could have a shot at it. In my own, personal tiers of firms in the city, I'd put them in the third of four tiers, which is "middle-market firms."

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Re: St. Louis Biglaw Summer Associate Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:12 pm

Brown and James starting salary in 2010 was $ 52,500 per a former associate.

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Re: St. Louis Biglaw Summer Associate Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Yeah, but which are your dream firms? For the grades: I think you'd probably want to be in the top 10ish percent to get a look.



Man, that's as strong an indictment of Wash U. as I've ever read on this site, and I've read plenty. Top 10ish % to even get a look in your home market assuming decent ties? I guess the old joke about having to show them the mortgage papers and be married to the mayor's niece is true.

And I guess, based on what I know, that my dream firms would be Thompson Coburn, Husch, or maybe Polsinelli (but they're tiny in STL). Heard anything specific about them?

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Re: St. Louis Biglaw Summer Associate Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:20 pm

I have friends doing SAs at smaller business firms in town with pretty sophisticated practices. They say top 5-10% for biglaw and down to perhaps top 25% for their firms and ties being almost a prerequisite. Pretty competitive and tough to break in all around.

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Re: St. Louis Biglaw Summer Associate Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I have friends doing SAs at smaller business firms in town with pretty sophisticated practices. They say top 5-10% for biglaw and down to perhaps top 25% for their firms and ties being almost a prerequisite. Pretty competitive and tough to break in all around.


What are examples of these "smaller business firms?" You mean like Carmody MacDonald? Also, what do these type of firms pay?

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Re: St. Louis Biglaw Summer Associate Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Yeah, but which are your dream firms? For the grades: I think you'd probably want to be in the top 10ish percent to get a look.



Man, that's as strong an indictment of Wash U. as I've ever read on this site, and I've read plenty. Top 10ish % to even get a look in your home market assuming decent ties? I guess the old joke about having to show them the mortgage papers and be married to the mayor's niece is true.

And I guess, based on what I know, that my dream firms would be Thompson Coburn, Husch, or maybe Polsinelli (but they're tiny in STL). Heard anything specific about them?


Yeah, biglaw here isn't less selective than biglaw elsewhere. ITE, it takes top grades.

Those are all good firms. Thompson Coburn is a good regional firm that handles a lot of local issues; Husch does the same, but they've been (rumor alert) struggling a little post-merger to find an identity and make their associates happy; and Polsinelli is growing but is not a huge player, yet, in the market. All good places, though. Why do you have them ranked higher than some of the other firms in town?

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Re: St. Louis Biglaw Summer Associate Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:42 pm

Carmody is probably at the higher end of that grouping since many are former BCers. Rosenblum Goldenhursh, Dana McKitrick, Stolar, Jenkins Kling, etc with the more sophisticated practices I would guess would be in that group. Likely others too I have not heard about.

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Re: St. Louis Biglaw Summer Associate Taking Questions

Postby Gecko of Doom » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Yeah, but which are your dream firms? For the grades: I think you'd probably want to be in the top 10ish percent to get a look.



Man, that's as strong an indictment of Wash U. as I've ever read on this site, and I've read plenty. Top 10ish % to even get a look in your home market assuming decent ties? I guess the old joke about having to show them the mortgage papers and be married to the mayor's niece is true.

And I guess, based on what I know, that my dream firms would be Thompson Coburn, Husch, or maybe Polsinelli (but they're tiny in STL). Heard anything specific about them?


Yeah, biglaw here isn't less selective than biglaw elsewhere. ITE, it takes top grades.

Any idea about what kind of grades you need from a T14 with ties?

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Re: St. Louis Biglaw Summer Associate Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Wow, that is a small class for Greensfelder. I wonder if they had any stealth layoffs as some of the others did.

Doesn't Stinson have a sizeable office in St. Louis and Lathrop too?



Greensfelder has 4 summers this year. No lay-offs, stealth or otherwise.

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Re: St. Louis Biglaw Summer Associate Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Carmody is probably at the higher end of that grouping since many are former BCers. Rosenblum Goldenhursh, Dana McKitrick, Stolar, Jenkins Kling, etc with the more sophisticated practices I would guess would be in that group. Likely others too I have not heard about.



Absolutely. But they're damn hard to get as a fresh grad. They do take people with a few years experience at the top firms in the market, though, who are looking to make a move.

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Wow, that is a small class for Greensfelder. I wonder if they had any stealth layoffs as some of the others did.

Doesn't Stinson have a sizeable office in St. Louis and Lathrop too?



Greensfelder has 4 summers this year. No lay-offs, stealth or otherwise.


Interesting. Are two of them 1Ls? When I was there (early in the process) the plan was for 2 only.

Gecko of Doom wrote:Any idea about what kind of grades you need from a T14 with ties?


Probably closer to top 1/2.

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Re: St. Louis Biglaw Summer Associate Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:54 pm

What's the transfer market like for associates at V10's with ties?

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Re: St. Louis Biglaw Summer Associate Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What's the transfer market like for associates at V10's with ties?



At my firm there are a significant number of those people.

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Re: St. Louis Biglaw Summer Associate Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:17 pm

My friend is at one of those second level firms. They have 2 summers and it was a very competitive application process, mostly SLU and WUSTL candidates. Not sure what the offer expectation is but I can ask.

As to the big law firms discussed by OP, what is the expected offer rate?




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