Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions

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bruinfan10
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Re: Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions

Postby bruinfan10 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Top 25% at Berkeley. Want to do commercial lit. in SF.

Bids to: MoFo, Latham, OMM, Jones Day, Bingham, Fenwick, Orrick, Sidley, DLA Piper, Baker, Keker, White&Case, Morgan Lewis, Ropes, Farella, Wilson Sonsini, Covington, Skadden, Cooley

Forgetting any major players/shooting too high?

You haven't even got a remote chance with Keker and you forgot Gibson Dunn SF. I assume you left off Quinn SF because they went non-standard with their interviewing.

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Re: Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:00 pm

bravos89 wrote:All of the major SF offices come to EIP. Farella Braun doesn't but they're more of a mid-market shop so I'm not sure how interested you would be in them for transactional stuff but they seem pretty well respected in the Bay Area.

To be honest, I found that the SF transactional market to be pretty meager as a whole. A lot of firms seem to have shrunk their corporate practices in SF and moved them to SV. The two offices that hire a considerable (>10) number of summers and seem to have robust transactional practices are MoFo and Kirkland. MoFo has a more diverse practice while Kirkland focuses on PE work if you're into that stuff. I would look at Orrick as well for transactional practice in SF.

If you're interested in emerging company/VC work, definitely focus on SV as a couple of those firms have pretty robust summer programs. A notable firm that doesn't come to EIP is Fenwick so I would reach out to them and express interest.


Thanks for that.

About what approximate class rank at CLS would have a shot at Wilson Sonsini, if you happen to know?

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Re: Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Top 25% at Berkeley. Want to do commercial lit. in SF.

Bids to: MoFo, Latham, OMM, Jones Day, Bingham, Fenwick, Orrick, Sidley, DLA Piper, Baker, Keker, White&Case, Morgan Lewis, Ropes, Farella, Wilson Sonsini, Covington, Skadden, Cooley

Forgetting any major players/shooting too high?


Gibson, A&P, and Reed Smith are the larger offices I can think of that you've left off (>60 lawyers).

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Re: Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:51 pm

Top 25% UCLA. Chance at MoFo?

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Re: Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:57 pm

hiima3L wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
I looked hard at places like Farella Braun, Keker, Cotchett Pitre, Howard Rice, (which doesn't exist anymore, now it's A&P's SF office), andMcManis Faulkner (San Jose).


- BW's Beard.


-Cotchett Pitre is a plaintiffs firm, unlike the two above, and is located on the Peninsula, not in SF. Supposed to be a great place, though.


Really?

I've heard nothing but horrible, horrible things about it. I know of someone who quit without notice because it was so bad.


actually, now that you mention it, I guess what I heard wasn't that great. my friend isn't a negative guy, but he wasn't raving, and I know he was working insane hours as a summer associate, which I thought might be normal since it isn't a biglaw firm, but still seemed pretty gnarly to work on weekends as an SA. what did you hear sucks about it?

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Re: Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:07 pm

Previous Anon, want to thank BW's Beard for great advice.

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Re: Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:12 pm

.

hiima3L
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Re: Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions

Postby hiima3L » Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:06 am

Anonymous User wrote:
hiima3L wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:- BW's Beard.

-Cotchett Pitre is a plaintiffs firm, unlike the two above, and is located on the Peninsula, not in SF. Supposed to be a great place, though.



actually, now that you mention it, I guess what I heard wasn't that great. my friend isn't a negative guy, but he wasn't raving, and I know he was working insane hours as a summer associate, which I thought might be normal since it isn't a biglaw firm, but still seemed pretty gnarly to work on weekends as an SA. what did you hear sucks about it?


Essentially that it's a grindhouse with horrible partners to work for and they don't even pay remotely well for what they expect.

Also, I think their offer rate is close to zero.

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Re: Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:16 am

Transfer to Berkeley. Top of my class at T50 for 1L year. From Southern California and want transactional work in the Bay Area.

Here's my top 20:

Wilson Sonsini (Palo Alto)
Cooley (Palo Alto)
Kirkland & Ellis (SF)
Morrison & Foerster (SF)
O’Melveny & [deleted] (SF)
Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman (SF)
Covington & Burling (SF)
Farella Braun + Martel (SF)
Arnold & Porter (SF)
Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe (Menlo Park)
Ropes & Gray (SF)
Fenwick & West (Mountain View)
Sheppard, Mullin, Richter & Hampton (LA)
Sidley Austin (LA)
Munger, Tolles & Olson (LA)
Irell & Manella (Newport Beach)
Jones Day (SF)
Gunderson Dettmer Stough Villenevue Franklin & Hachigian (Palo Alto)
Simpson Thatcher & Bartlett (Palo Alto)
K&L Gates (SF)

Any glaring mistakes? Any important firms missing?

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Re: Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Transfer to Berkeley. Top of my class at T50 for 1L year. From Southern California and want transactional work in the Bay Area.

Here's my top 20:

Wilson Sonsini (Palo Alto)
Cooley (Palo Alto)
Kirkland & Ellis (SF)
Morrison & Foerster (SF)
O’Melveny & [deleted] (SF)
Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman (SF)
Covington & Burling (SF)
Farella Braun + Martel (SF)
Arnold & Porter (SF)
Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe (Menlo Park)
Ropes & Gray (SF)
Fenwick & West (Mountain View)
Sheppard, Mullin, Richter & Hampton (LA)
Sidley Austin (LA)
Munger, Tolles & Olson (LA)
Irell & Manella (Newport Beach)
Jones Day (SF)
Gunderson Dettmer Stough Villenevue Franklin & Hachigian (Palo Alto)
Simpson Thatcher & Bartlett (Palo Alto)
K&L Gates (SF)

Any glaring mistakes? Any important firms missing?


Overall, this is a very good list. Is it in order? If yes, I might move up the smaller classes and move down the giant ones - I think you can get K&E much closer to 10 than 1, for example, and I think Wilson and Cooley can be a bit farther down.

There are a few missing firms: Reed Smith SF is one of the most glaring, since the office is near 150 lawyers and has a substantial transactional practice. If you have a Real Estate interest, maybe bid Gibson SF (if not, bid Gibson SV; regardless bid one).

Two firms I'd cut are Covington SF and MTO. MTO's corporate practice is teensy, and I don't think you'll get them unless your grades were so good that you would've gotten HLS/SLS as well. Though if you make CLR I might throw them a bid. Covington wasn't too high on transfers my year who came from outside the schools where they normally attend OCI. If Bingham has a corporate group I'd throw them a bid. DLA Piper SV, Latham, Davis Polk, S&C LA (they liked transfers my OCI year) are all worth bids if they're coming.

-BW's Beard.

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Re: Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:56 pm

bruinfan10 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Top 25% at Berkeley. Want to do commercial lit. in SF.

Bids to: MoFo, Latham, OMM, Jones Day, Bingham, Fenwick, Orrick, Sidley, DLA Piper, Baker, Keker, White&Case, Morgan Lewis, Ropes, Farella, Wilson Sonsini, Covington, Skadden, Cooley

Forgetting any major players/shooting too high?

You haven't even got a remote chance with Keker and you forgot Gibson Dunn SF. I assume you left off Quinn SF because they went non-standard with their interviewing.


What's Keker's reputation? Thank you--I totally forgot about GD.

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Re: Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Transfer to Berkeley. Top of my class at T50 for 1L year. From Southern California and want transactional work in the Bay Area.

Here's my top 20:

Wilson Sonsini (Palo Alto)
Cooley (Palo Alto)
Kirkland & Ellis (SF)
Morrison & Foerster (SF)
O’Melveny & [deleted] (SF)
Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman (SF)
Covington & Burling (SF)
Farella Braun + Martel (SF)
Arnold & Porter (SF)
Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe (Menlo Park)
Ropes & Gray (SF)
Fenwick & West (Mountain View)
Sheppard, Mullin, Richter & Hampton (LA)
Sidley Austin (LA)
Munger, Tolles & Olson (LA)
Irell & Manella (Newport Beach)
Jones Day (SF)
Gunderson Dettmer Stough Villenevue Franklin & Hachigian (Palo Alto)
Simpson Thatcher & Bartlett (Palo Alto)
K&L Gates (SF)

Any glaring mistakes? Any important firms missing?


Overall, this is a very good list. Is it in order? If yes, I might move up the smaller classes and move down the giant ones - I think you can get K&E much closer to 10 than 1, for example, and I think Wilson and Cooley can be a bit farther down.

There are a few missing firms: Reed Smith SF is one of the most glaring, since the office is near 150 lawyers and has a substantial transactional practice. If you have a Real Estate interest, maybe bid Gibson SF (if not, bid Gibson SV; regardless bid one).

Two firms I'd cut are Covington SF and MTO. MTO's corporate practice is teensy, and I don't think you'll get them unless your grades were so good that you would've gotten HLS/SLS as well. Though if you make CLR I might throw them a bid. Covington wasn't too high on transfers my year who came from outside the schools where they normally attend OCI. If Bingham has a corporate group I'd throw them a bid. DLA Piper SV, Latham, Davis Polk, S&C LA (they liked transfers my OCI year) are all worth bids if they're coming.

-BW's Beard.


Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it. Grades were straight-As but I'll get rid of (or move down significantly) Covington and MTO. I'll also add the firms you've listed (pretty sure they're all coming to EIW).

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Re: Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
bruinfan10 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Top 25% at Berkeley. Want to do commercial lit. in SF.

Bids to: MoFo, Latham, OMM, Jones Day, Bingham, Fenwick, Orrick, Sidley, DLA Piper, Baker, Keker, White&Case, Morgan Lewis, Ropes, Farella, Wilson Sonsini, Covington, Skadden, Cooley

Forgetting any major players/shooting too high?

You haven't even got a remote chance with Keker and you forgot Gibson Dunn SF. I assume you left off Quinn SF because they went non-standard with their interviewing.


What's Keker's reputation? Thank you--I totally forgot about GD.


(I'm not that poster)

My understanding is that Keker is incredibly selective, as in notable clerkship selective.

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Re: Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
bruinfan10 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Top 25% at Berkeley. Want to do commercial lit. in SF.

Bids to: MoFo, Latham, OMM, Jones Day, Bingham, Fenwick, Orrick, Sidley, DLA Piper, Baker, Keker, White&Case, Morgan Lewis, Ropes, Farella, Wilson Sonsini, Covington, Skadden, Cooley

Forgetting any major players/shooting too high?

You haven't even got a remote chance with Keker and you forgot Gibson Dunn SF. I assume you left off Quinn SF because they went non-standard with their interviewing.


What's Keker's reputation? Thank you--I totally forgot about GD.


(I'm not that poster)

My understanding is that Keker is incredibly selective, as in notable clerkship selective.


IIRC, Keker's summer class was either 4 or 5 people my year. At SLS, the two people they offered were on SLR and wound up clerking for feeder judges.

-BW's Beard.

Anonymous User
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Re: Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
bruinfan10 wrote:You haven't even got a remote chance with Keker and you forgot Gibson Dunn SF. I assume you left off Quinn SF because they went non-standard with their interviewing.


What's Keker's reputation? Thank you--I totally forgot about GD.


(I'm not that poster)

My understanding is that Keker is incredibly selective, as in notable clerkship selective.


IIRC, Keker's summer class was either 4 or 5 people my year. At SLS, the two people they offered were on SLR and wound up clerking for feeder judges.

-BW's Beard.


Gotcha. Thanks for the info guys; it is much appreciated. Is it worth a shot if I get a CLR offer or still not worth the bid?

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Re: Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:44 pm

Is it just me, or are SF SA classes ridiculously small? Some firms have 1 (based on NALP)...ONE SA?

Anonymous User
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Re: Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is it just me, or are SF SA classes ridiculously small? Some firms have 1 (based on NALP)...ONE SA?


I've noticed it, as well. Makes me (even more) worried.

Anonymous User
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Re: Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
IIRC, Keker's summer class was either 4 or 5 people my year. At SLS, the two people they offered were on SLR and wound up clerking for feeder judges.

-BW's Beard.


Gotcha. Thanks for the info guys; it is much appreciated. Is it worth a shot if I get a CLR offer or still not worth the bid?


To me, it depends on how low you can bid them. At SLS my year, I got Keker at something like 12. I was around top 25% with no LR, and was rejected within about a day.

I would say that top 25% at Boalt + CLR, you should bid Keker only if they don't take up a spot by a firm you have a shot with AND you have something extra they will really like (loads of relevant work experience, science/engineering PhD, etc.). But, if you REALLY want them, and would regret not getting the interview, bid them. Top 25% + CLR is VERY unlikely to strike out. Not impossible, but unlikely.

If Keker is your dream firm, use the bid on them. I did this during OCI with my 2 dream firms that were ostensibly out of reach, b/c they were super-duper selective, and wound up getting a CB and offer at one of them.

- BW's Beard.

Anonymous User
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Re: Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is it just me, or are SF SA classes ridiculously small? Some firms have 1 (based on NALP)...ONE SA?


I've noticed it, as well. Makes me (even more) worried.


They are. Though, when you group SF + the Valley together, it's probably the 5th or so biggest market in the country. SF, though, is quite small considering its desirability. I'd say most of the major firms take between 4 and 10 summers.

- BW's B.

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bk1
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Re: Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions

Postby bk1 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is it just me, or are SF SA classes ridiculously small? Some firms have 1 (based on NALP)...ONE SA?


I've noticed it, as well. Makes me (even more) worried.

This is true (it's also true of SV). You should be worried.

Anonymous User
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Re: Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:49 pm

bk1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is it just me, or are SF SA classes ridiculously small? Some firms have 1 (based on NALP)...ONE SA?


I've noticed it, as well. Makes me (even more) worried.

This is true (it's also true of SV). You should be worried.


Image

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Re: Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is it just me, or are SF SA classes ridiculously small? Some firms have 1 (based on NALP)...ONE SA?


Yup.

I got a couple callbacks (not this year) that were for one or two SA spots. It was hard to have much hope for those.

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Re: Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is it just me, or are SF SA classes ridiculously small? Some firms have 1 (based on NALP)...ONE SA?


Yup.

I got a couple callbacks (not this year) that were for one or two SA spots. It was hard to have much hope for those.


I can't imagine there were more than a few people they called back. Wouldn't make sense for them to extend the resources to callback 8 or 9 people for a spot or two.

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Re: Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is it just me, or are SF SA classes ridiculously small? Some firms have 1 (based on NALP)...ONE SA?


Yup.

I got a couple callbacks (not this year) that were for one or two SA spots. It was hard to have much hope for those.


I can't imagine there were more than a few people they called back. Wouldn't make sense for them to extend the resources to callback 8 or 9 people for a spot or two.


I don't think 8 or 9 is at all too many callbacks for 1-2 spots. These were huge firms who just happened to either have a small SF office or just a small summer class, the cost of a few plane tickets and hotel rooms is a drop in the bucket.

Don't forget, a summer associate is going to get paid $30k-$40k for the summer, and they are going to contribute a comparatively small amount of value for their services. In comparison, a hotel room and flight isn't much.

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bk1
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Re: Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions

Postby bk1 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I don't think 8 or 9 is at all too many callbacks for 1-2 spots. These were huge firms who just happened to either have a small SF office or just a small summer class, the cost of a few plane tickets and hotel rooms is a drop in the bucket.

Don't forget, a summer associate is going to get paid $30k-$40k for the summer, and they are going to contribute a comparatively small amount of value for their services. In comparison, a hotel room and flight isn't much.

This. You can't know (unless you have the data) what the CB:offer ratio is for a firm or an office, though some schools do give this data out.




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