character & fitness situation

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Anonymous User
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character & fitness situation

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:33 pm

so heres the deal, my state's bar says:

"Traffic violations which must be reported under this question include Failure to Appear, Driving Without a License, Driving with a Suspended License, and Reckless Driving, as well as all traffic violations that resulted in a misdemeanor or felony conviction."

we also had to turn in a copy of our driving records.

i received 2 photoradar traffic tickets after submitting my application. they are not on my driving record because it was my girlfriend's car. do i need to update my application?

Anonymous User
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Re: character & fitness situation

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:43 pm

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Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

tmgarvey
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Re: character & fitness situation

Postby tmgarvey » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:46 pm

I assume you paid the tickets? Didn't let them stay on your girlfriend's driving record?

Speeding (or running a stoplight) don't qualify for what has to be reported. I assume the submission of the driving record is to be sure you haven't committed any of the enumerated offenses.

I don't see that there is anything to update, assuming you paid the tickets and assumed responsibility for the offenses.

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eandy
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Re: character & fitness situation

Postby eandy » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:52 pm

I'd just disclose. It doesn't hurt to do it, so why not?

Anonymous User
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Re: character & fitness situation

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:05 pm

tmgarvey wrote:I assume you paid the tickets? Didn't let them stay on your girlfriend's driving record?

Speeding (or running a stoplight) don't qualify for what has to be reported. I assume the submission of the driving record is to be sure you haven't committed any of the enumerated offenses.

I don't see that there is anything to update, assuming you paid the tickets and assumed responsibility for the offenses.


OP here: Photoradar where I'm at doesn't add points, so I paid it but never got it changed to be under my name.

zuluwarriors
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Re: character & fitness situation

Postby zuluwarriors » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:59 pm

disclose. in many states, traffic tickets are considered misdemeanors (esp. red light tickets). by paying the fine and not contesting in court, you have pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor. it is easy for the bar to find out about traffic offenses via driving records; by not disclosing you will likely be denied admission for omissions on your application.

although the examples given on what traffic offenses need to be disclosed do not include speeding or failing to stop at red lights, they do not include offenses such as DUI either. it is pretty clear that DUIs would need to be disclosed.

PolySuyGuy
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Re: character & fitness situation

Postby PolySuyGuy » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:so heres the deal, my state's bar says:

"Traffic violations which must be reported under this question include Failure to Appear, Driving Without a License, Driving with a Suspended License, and Reckless Driving, as well as all traffic violations that resulted in a misdemeanor or felony conviction."

we also had to turn in a copy of our driving records.

i received 2 photoradar traffic tickets after submitting my application. they are not on my driving record because it was my girlfriend's car. do i need to update my application?



Nope, unless you plead guilty to them, which hopefully you didn't since photo radar tickets are a joke.

zuluwarriors
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Re: character & fitness situation

Postby zuluwarriors » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:13 pm

PolySuyGuy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:so heres the deal, my state's bar says:

"Traffic violations which must be reported under this question include Failure to Appear, Driving Without a License, Driving with a Suspended License, and Reckless Driving, as well as all traffic violations that resulted in a misdemeanor or felony conviction."

we also had to turn in a copy of our driving records.

i received 2 photoradar traffic tickets after submitting my application. they are not on my driving record because it was my girlfriend's car. do i need to update my application?



Nope, unless you plead guilty to them, which hopefully you didn't since photo radar tickets are a joke.


by paying the fine, OP has pleaded guilty and thus, has pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor that requires disclosure. OP omitted the following phrase from the disclosure requirements: "IN ANSWERING THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS, YOU MUST INCLUDE ALL SUCH INCIDENTS AND CONVICTIONS, NO MATTER HOW MINOR THE INCIDENT."

Traffic violations MUST be disclosed for California C&F if you paid the fine!

lolwat
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Re: character & fitness situation

Postby lolwat » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:16 pm

Just disclose... this kind of stuff isn't going to prevent you from passing c&f but not disclosing it has the potential to screw you.

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chrisbru
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Re: character & fitness situation

Postby chrisbru » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:27 pm

I may be wrong, but I'm 99% certain that photoradar tickets are just civil fines and not actual considered legal violations. So, under the wording of your question, no. They are the equivalent of a parking ticket.

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Re: character & fitness situation

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:30 pm

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Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: character & fitness situation

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:20 pm

i'm not giving legal advice. i recently applied to california c&f as well and was explicitly told that all traffic violations, no matter how minor, must be disclosed.

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Re: character & fitness situation

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:31 pm

Serious question but what if I have over 30 tickets for various motor vehicle infractions and three reckless driving charges. Almost all the infractions were dropped in court (I think about 5 were paid for), and all reckless driving charges were dropped. Also, and I am being serious, several misdemeanor arrests, but again all were dismissed. I just want an answer as to whether you guys think this will be a C&F issue and I won't be answering questions as to how I managed to get all these fantastic charges.

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Wellsfargowagon
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Re: character & fitness situation

Postby Wellsfargowagon » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Serious question but what if I have over 30 tickets for various motor vehicle infractions and three reckless driving charges. Almost all the infractions were dropped in court (I think about 5 were paid for), and all reckless driving charges were dropped. Also, and I am being serious, several misdemeanor arrests, but again all were dismissed. I just want an answer as to whether you guys think this will be a C&F issue and I won't be answering questions as to how I managed to get all these fantastic charges.


I'm not sure anyone here is qualified to predict what the C&F committee will do. What everyone here will (or should) tell you is that if you're asked to disclose something, you'd better disclose it. You probably already know that there's a difference between being asked about citations / arrests and being asked about convictions. Read the questions closely and use your common sense.

Anonymous User
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Re: character & fitness situation

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:44 pm

Wellsfargowagon wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Serious question but what if I have over 30 tickets for various motor vehicle infractions and three reckless driving charges. Almost all the infractions were dropped in court (I think about 5 were paid for), and all reckless driving charges were dropped. Also, and I am being serious, several misdemeanor arrests, but again all were dismissed. I just want an answer as to whether you guys think this will be a C&F issue and I won't be answering questions as to how I managed to get all these fantastic charges.


I'm not sure anyone here is qualified to predict what the C&F committee will do. What everyone here will (or should) tell you is that if you're asked to disclose something, you'd better disclose it. You probably already know that there's a difference between being asked about citations / arrests and being asked about convictions. Read the questions closely and use your common sense.


I use my common sense. I mention the arrests for the sole reason that the C&F asks about arrests ie NY. I just am curious as to whether anyone has heard of anyone getting denied by C&F because of "excessive" driving violations. I'm sorry I didn't spell this out for you.

zuluwarriors
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Re: character & fitness situation

Postby zuluwarriors » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Serious question but what if I have over 30 tickets for various motor vehicle infractions and three reckless driving charges. Almost all the infractions were dropped in court (I think about 5 were paid for), and all reckless driving charges were dropped. Also, and I am being serious, several misdemeanor arrests, but again all were dismissed. I just want an answer as to whether you guys think this will be a C&F issue and I won't be answering questions as to how I managed to get all these fantastic charges.


for california, you don't need to disclose infractions that were charged and dropped. nor will you need to disclose arrests that did not result in convictions. thus, those will not be an issue.

however, if you paid any of the tickets, then you were convicted of a misdemeanor and will need to be disclosed. so you were likely convicted of 5 misdemeanors which may pose a problem.

Anonymous User
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Re: character & fitness situation

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:08 pm

OP here. Shit, I had read the question to not require disclosure of traffic tickets (speeding, red light etc.). I did not realize such tickets were misdemeanors, though now it makes sense with the bit about "disclose all incidents no matter how minor."

I did not disclose several tickets (though I send in my driving record as requested). What is the best way to address this at this point? Call and plead for mercy? What are the chances I am going to get C&F owned at this point...

Anonymous User
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Re: character & fitness situation

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:57 pm

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Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Wellsfargowagon
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Re: character & fitness situation

Postby Wellsfargowagon » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I use my common sense. I mention the arrests for the sole reason that the C&F asks about arrests ie NY. I just am curious as to whether anyone has heard of anyone getting denied by C&F because of "excessive" driving violations. I'm sorry I didn't spell this out for you.


That's fair; I might have been a little short in my response. Anyway, I'm not sure that info on others' C&F denials would be particularly helpful since those decisions, I assume, are case-by-case. I think the most anyone can say is that the C&F committee will look very closely at your arrests and then make a judgment as to whether they want you practicing law. Maybe some jurisdictions have objective criteria (e.g. maximum number of red flags), but I haven't heard of any.

Have you talked with anyone in your school's career services or registar's office?

NotMyRealName09
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Re: character & fitness situation

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:56 pm

Hehe, asking the internet for advice, classic.

tmgarvey
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Re: character & fitness situation

Postby tmgarvey » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:40 pm

Whether a traffic violation is considered a "misdemeanor" depends on how it is defined in the state where the incident occurred. I personally know of no state in which an ordinary speeding ticket or running a red light or making an illegal U-turn is a misdemeanor. They are considered petty offenses in most jurisdictions. The only way you can find out for sure is to check the law of that state.

I have also never heard of anyone being denied a license to practice due to petty traffic violations, unless you fail to appear in court as ordered.

So it would appear that the safest route is always to disclose when in doubt.

Anonymous User
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Re: character & fitness situation

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:27 pm

Here is the exact wording from the bar of CA:
-------------------------------
ANSWERING THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS, YOU MUST INCLUDE ALL SUCH INCIDENTS AND CONVICTIONS, NO MATTER HOW MINOR THE INCIDENT. Traffic violations which must be reported under this question include Failure to Appear, Driving Without a License, Driving with a Suspended License, and Reckless Driving, as well as all traffic violations that resulted in a misdemeanor or felony conviction.

Have you ever been convicted of the violation of a misdemeanor or felony? As used herein, a conviction includes a plea of guilty or nolo contendere, or a verdict or finding of guilt, regardless of whether sentence is imposed by the court.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Fair to not disclose/update application with garden variety speeding/red light tickets?

tmgarvey
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Re: character & fitness situation

Postby tmgarvey » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:55 pm

I don't see that you will get a more definitive answer from anyone. It depends upon how the offense is classified in the state where it occurred. You can look it up, you can ask a municipal court attorney in that state how those offenses are classified, or you can simply disclose it. It isn't an enumerated traffic offense; no way is it a felony; whether it is a misdemeanor is the question.

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chup
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Re: character & fitness situation

Postby chup » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:16 am

Whole bunch of needless anon up in here.

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reasonable_man
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Re: character & fitness situation

Postby reasonable_man » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:18 am

Anonymous User wrote:Serious question but what if I have over 30 tickets for various motor vehicle infractions and three reckless driving charges. Almost all the infractions were dropped in court (I think about 5 were paid for), and all reckless driving charges were dropped. Also, and I am being serious, several misdemeanor arrests, but again all were dismissed. I just want an answer as to whether you guys think this will be a C&F issue and I won't be answering questions as to how I managed to get all these fantastic charges.


Man I'd love to be your C&F interviewer lol.




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