On the fringe of typical class ranking divisions

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On the fringe of typical class ranking divisions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:01 pm

I will be applying to a number of biglaw firms in Atlanta for 3L recruiting. I missed being top 15% by .4% points.

On my resume is it tacky to put 16th percentile instead of the typical "top 20%"?

Myself
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Postby Myself » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:13 pm

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Last edited by Myself on Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Haymarket
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Re: On the fringe of typical class ranking divisions

Postby Haymarket » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:25 pm

Do people really put their GPA or class ranks on their resume (assuming it's not like some award marking some percentile rank)? I have always been told to that is incredibly tacky and what transcripts are for. Might as well put on your LSAT score.

My advice would be to put neither. Seems gauche.

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Postby Myself » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:27 pm

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Haymarket
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Re: On the fringe of typical class ranking divisions

Postby Haymarket » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:28 pm

ajax adonis wrote:A lot of schools don't put your class rank on your transcript, though, if that's what you're assuming.

I'm not assuming that. I think firms, if they interview enough from your school, have an idea what the cutoffs are for different ranges. I still don't think it's a good idea.

Edit: Maybe other people have been told differently. I'm not a resume expert. It's just what I've heard.

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kalvano
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Re: On the fringe of typical class ranking divisions

Postby kalvano » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:03 pm

Haymarket wrote:Do people really put their GPA or class ranks on their resume (assuming it's not like some award marking some percentile rank)? I have always been told to that is incredibly tacky and what transcripts are for. Might as well put on your LSAT score.

My advice would be to put neither. Seems gauche.


It's expected to have your GPA / rank on your resume. What else would a resume be for except to advertise what your accomplished.

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Re: On the fringe of typical class ranking divisions

Postby Altanis » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:13 pm

Don't listen to guy saying don't include your GPA. Assuming not a flame, that is seriously awful advice and ridiculously misinformed.

Resumes for a law student are all very cookie cutter and deviation is not good. If you don't list a GPA or rank, the assumption is you are ranked median or lower. HTH.

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Re: On the fringe of typical class ranking divisions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:25 pm

TBF in the T10, its less common to give your GPA and you don't have a class rank. You include a transcript and that should speak for itself.

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Ludo!
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Re: On the fringe of typical class ranking divisions

Postby Ludo! » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:25 pm

Haymarket wrote:Do people really put their GPA or class ranks on their resume (assuming it's not like some award marking some percentile rank)? I have always been told to that is incredibly tacky and what transcripts are for. Might as well put on your LSAT score.

My advice would be to put neither. Seems gauche.



Not sure if trolling but yeah absolutely you put your GPA/class rank on your resume. That's the most important thing on your resume

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Re: On the fringe of typical class ranking divisions

Postby Altanis » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:TBF in the T10, its less common to give your GPA and you don't have a class rank. You include a transcript and that should speak for itself.


If your school HAS ranks/number-grades, you include them. End of thread.

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Haymarket
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Re: On the fringe of typical class ranking divisions

Postby Haymarket » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:TBF in the T10, its less common to give your GPA and you don't have a class rank. You include a transcript and that should speak for itself.

That's what my advice is based off. I didn't realize other schools don't tell people this. I just assumed the transcript was enough to give them an idea of grades.

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Ludo!
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Re: On the fringe of typical class ranking divisions

Postby Ludo! » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:35 pm

Ahh that makes more sense. My advice is for when you're at a range of school where your only shot at getting a job is having a high GPA prominently displayed on your resume :D

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Re: On the fringe of typical class ranking divisions

Postby r6_philly » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:42 pm

You should include your GPA unless it's low. The resume is essentially an abstract of your professional and academic qualifications. You should highlight the things that will help you stand out and be more qualified than the next applicant. If your GPA/rank will help do so, then put it on there.

As for the idea that transcript will "speak for itself", do you go into an interview and say "my academic and professional records/qualifications will speak themselves, or are you going to hustle and sell yourself? You take every opportunity to make yourself look better than your competition.

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Re: On the fringe of typical class ranking divisions

Postby buckilaw » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I will be applying to a number of biglaw firms in Atlanta for 3L recruiting. I missed being top 15% by .4% points.

On my resume is it tacky to put 16th percentile instead of the typical "top 20%"?


I think it might look weird, not necessarily tacky, but weird.

I also think some people might assume you really are in the top 15%, but that you have a typo on your resume (you hit 6 instead of 5). I think this risk is real and you should avoid it.

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rayiner
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Re: On the fringe of typical class ranking divisions

Postby rayiner » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:06 am

Even at a T14, you should include your LS-GPA on your resume, if you're allowed to compute one. Why? Because that's the convention, and it's the convention because firms care more about it than pretty much anything else on your resume. Once you're several years out you can remove it.

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Re: On the fringe of typical class ranking divisions

Postby jarofsoup » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:28 am

Put what your school will stand behind.

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Re: On the fringe of typical class ranking divisions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:40 am

Anonymous User wrote:TBF in the T10, its less common to give your GPA and you don't have a class rank. You include a transcript and that should speak for itself.


At my T6 we aren't allowed to put a law school GPA on our resume

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Postby Myself » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:43 am

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rayiner
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Re: On the fringe of typical class ranking divisions

Postby rayiner » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:TBF in the T10, its less common to give your GPA and you don't have a class rank. You include a transcript and that should speak for itself.


At my T6 we aren't allowed to put a law school GPA on our resume


Most schools prevent you from putting your GPA for resumes submitted for OCI. This is to keep firms from gaming the lottery. I haven't heard of any school that prevents you from putting GPA's on your resume for anything else. That's pretty TTT actually.

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Re: On the fringe of typical class ranking divisions

Postby Lawyerhead » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:48 am

kalvano wrote:
Haymarket wrote:Do people really put their GPA or class ranks on their resume (assuming it's not like some award marking some percentile rank)? I have always been told to that is incredibly tacky and what transcripts are for. Might as well put on your LSAT score.

My advice would be to put neither. Seems gauche.


It's expected to have your GPA / rank on your resume. What else would a resume be for except to advertise what your accomplished.


As someone heavily involved in recruiting at my firm for a number of years, it's definitely NOT expected to be on your resume. In fact, the vast, vast majority of resumes I've seen do not include them. The only exceptions tend to be lower ranked schools, which would make sense because grades are more important the lower your school is ranked. We have your transcript. If you're top 10%, put it in. I don't care to see your GPA on your resume.

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Re: On the fringe of typical class ranking divisions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:51 am

rayiner wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:TBF in the T10, its less common to give your GPA and you don't have a class rank. You include a transcript and that should speak for itself.


At my T6 we aren't allowed to put a law school GPA on our resume


Most schools prevent you from putting your GPA for resumes submitted for OCI. This is to keep firms from gaming the lottery. I haven't heard of any school that prevents you from putting GPA's on your resume for anything else. That's pretty TTT actually.


Yeah that is what I meant, I don't know what the deal is beyond OCI...

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Re: On the fringe of typical class ranking divisions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:53 am

rayiner wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:TBF in the T10, its less common to give your GPA and you don't have a class rank. You include a transcript and that should speak for itself.


At my T6 we aren't allowed to put a law school GPA on our resume


Most schools prevent you from putting your GPA for resumes submitted for OCI. This is to keep firms from gaming the lottery. I haven't heard of any school that prevents you from putting GPA's on your resume for anything else. That's pretty TTT actually.


How does putting GPA on resume allow firms to game the lottery?

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Re: On the fringe of typical class ranking divisions

Postby de5igual » Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:09 am

Anonymous User wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:TBF in the T10, its less common to give your GPA and you don't have a class rank. You include a transcript and that should speak for itself.


At my T6 we aren't allowed to put a law school GPA on our resume


Most schools prevent you from putting your GPA for resumes submitted for OCI. This is to keep firms from gaming the lottery. I haven't heard of any school that prevents you from putting GPA's on your resume for anything else. That's pretty TTT actually.


How does putting GPA on resume allow firms to game the lottery?


maybe gaming the lottery isn't the right way of phrasing it, but with GPA on-hand, firms can determine callbacks before even conducting an interview, effectively eliminating any chance for people with slightly lower GPAs.

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Re: On the fringe of typical class ranking divisions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:11 am

f0bolous wrote:
maybe gaming the lottery isn't the right way of phrasing it, but with GPA on-hand, firms can determine callbacks before even conducting an interview, effectively eliminating any chance for people with slightly lower GPAs.


Don't they find out your GPA at the screening interview anyways? I don't really see how it would matter.

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rayiner
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Re: On the fringe of typical class ranking divisions

Postby rayiner » Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:23 am

Anonymous User wrote:
f0bolous wrote:
maybe gaming the lottery isn't the right way of phrasing it, but with GPA on-hand, firms can determine callbacks before even conducting an interview, effectively eliminating any chance for people with slightly lower GPAs.


Don't they find out your GPA at the screening interview anyways? I don't really see how it would matter.


Firms get resumes when the lottery is finalized, which is usually weeks before screening interviews. If the resumes included GPAs, then HR could collect all the resumes, compare people, and make up their minds before meeting anyone. Now HR can collect all the resumes after the screeners, but there's a clock running then. Firms need to get CBs out before other firms do (that's why NYC firms get CBs out so fast). That means that firms don't usually have interviewers send everything to HR first. Rather, they give the interviewer a number and allow him to call back up to that many people. The interviewer can't compare you to the whole pool from other schools, and has already met you and can't help taking that into account in making decisions.




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