Drug Testing / State Gov. Drug Testing

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abc12345675
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Re: Mass. AG's Office + Drug Testing / State Gov. Drug Testing

Postby abc12345675 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
eandy wrote:Does the hypocrisy of working for the AG and doing illegal drugs not bother you?


I thought I was pretty explicit in saying that I didn't want to get into this kind of conversation, but I'll bite: the short answer is "no".

The long answer is (in part) "No because:

1. Marijuana is decriminalized in MA, so even assuming I considered marijuana to be worthy of being wholesale illegal, I would be about as concerned with any innate hypocrisy as I currently feel for my past speeding / parking tickets as I do for smoking marijuana in the past and present.

2. "One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws." - MLK; IMO there is no justification for marijuana to be "illegal" and the argument for it to be a fineable offense is fairly weak."


Your logic makes no sense. Just because YOU don't think it should be illegal doesn't change the fact that it is and that you're going to be a member of the bar.

I think I should be able to drive as fast as I want, make sports bets with a bookie, and punch someone who offends me without criminal penalty. Should I just be able to do that stuff, too?

TheZoid
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Re: Mass. AG's Office + Drug Testing / State Gov. Drug Testing

Postby TheZoid » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:01 pm

JCFindley wrote:
dingbat wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:"One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws." - MLK; IMO there is no justification for marijuana to be "illegal" and the argument for it to be a fineable offense is fairly weak."

That's a very weak argument, I'm sure you can do better.

It doesn't apply here, but keep in mind that some government agencies perform hair tests, which can show months worth of usage history


High and tights are a beautiful fashion statement. I wear mine because I like the Marine Corps look but you have just come up with a reason for them to become trendy with a whole different crowd.


Nah, if your hair is under a certain length (1.5" maybe?) they will take it from your armpit or something. Also, shaving it all off is considered an admission of guilt.
Last edited by TheZoid on Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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eandy
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Re: Mass. AG's Office + Drug Testing / State Gov. Drug Testing

Postby eandy » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:17 pm

My complaint was based on the AG typically being prosecutorial in nature moreso than legal generally. As far as hypocrisy goes, lawyers in general don't have the same moral duty to obey laws as those directly enforcing them (prosecutors). In that regard, your personal views about the law shouldn't matter.

Anonymous User
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Re: Mass. AG's Office + Drug Testing / State Gov. Drug Testing

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:21 pm

This guy has to be a troll. It is very unethical, and I am perplexed why he is even interning in government.

Anonymous User
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Re: Mass. AG's Office + Drug Testing / State Gov. Drug Testing

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:33 pm

abc12345675 wrote:I think I should be able to drive as fast as I want, make sports bets with a bookie, and punch someone who offends me without criminal penalty. Should I just be able to do that stuff, too?

Anonymous User wrote:This guy has to be a troll. It is very unethical, and I am perplexed why he is even interning in government.

Smoking a joint after work = Crime of moral turpitude

:roll:

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ilovesf
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Re: Mass. AG's Office + Drug Testing / State Gov. Drug Testing

Postby ilovesf » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:43 pm

If you guys want to criticize OP at least don't be pussies and do it anonymously. Calling him unethical under anon is pretty lame.

Anonymous User
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Re: Mass. AG's Office + Drug Testing / State Gov. Drug Testing

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
This is why I hate law students. Also, 2 years of law school has taught me that I hate law students and law school. We have a duty to question Congress, not obey them and their millionaire, groveling lobbyist butt-kissing asses.


And this is why I hate people under the age of 30. Sure, you can question Congress all you want. That's great. But, that doesn't change the basics of our legal system - if you don't like a statute, then get Congress to change it. Until then, obey it. And, fyi, smoking pot isn't a civil right. I'm sorry if I'm not a K-JD and I don't understand the plight of those who want to smoke pot. But, as an adult, I understand that I have to comply with drug laws, even those I disagree with. But, I can certainly lobby for change.

To reiterate my point, and the point of others, it remains unethical for someone to work/intern/etc. in a prosecutorial position while actively abusing illegal drugs.

LSATNightmares
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Re: Mass. AG's Office + Drug Testing / State Gov. Drug Testing

Postby LSATNightmares » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:02 pm

ilovesf wrote:If you guys want to criticize OP at least don't be pussies and do it anonymously. Calling him unethical under anon is pretty lame.


If the OP is posting under anon to begin with, he must know that things aren't exactly right either. If he will be anon, we can all be anon. I didn't call him unethical initially, but the more I read, the more I am concerned.

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eandy
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Re: Mass. AG's Office + Drug Testing / State Gov. Drug Testing

Postby eandy » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:03 pm

ilovesf wrote:If you guys want to criticize OP at least don't be pussies and do it anonymously. Calling him unethical under anon is pretty lame.

This. Don't be ashamed to call someone out on their bullshit.

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ilovesf
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Re: Mass. AG's Office + Drug Testing / State Gov. Drug Testing

Postby ilovesf » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
ilovesf wrote:If you guys want to criticize OP at least don't be pussies and do it anonymously. Calling him unethical under anon is pretty lame.


If the OP is posting under anon to begin with, he must know that things aren't exactly right either. If he will be anon, we can all be anon. I didn't call him unethical initially, but the more I read, the more I am concerned.

OP is anon because he's smoking weed and worried about a job and doesnt want to be outted. You're anon because you have no balls.

abc12345675
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Re: Mass. AG's Office + Drug Testing / State Gov. Drug Testing

Postby abc12345675 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
This is why I hate law students. Also, 2 years of law school has taught me that I hate law students and law school. We have a duty to question Congress, not obey them and their millionaire, groveling lobbyist butt-kissing asses.


And this is why I hate people under the age of 30. Sure, you can question Congress all you want. That's great. But, that doesn't change the basics of our legal system - if you don't like a statute, then get Congress to change it. Until then, obey it. And, fyi, smoking pot isn't a civil right. I'm sorry if I'm not a K-JD and I don't understand the plight of those who want to smoke pot. But, as an adult, I understand that I have to comply with drug laws, even those I disagree with. But, I can certainly lobby for change.

To reiterate my point, and the point of others, it remains unethical for someone to work/intern/etc. in a prosecutorial position while actively abusing illegal drugs.


Indeed. OP is a complete clown. I'm 23 and I realize this.

Here's a non-anonymous shot at this bozo: You're a LOSER who is unethical, unprofessional, and I hope you don't pass the bar so I don't have to share a profession with you.

FloridaCoastalorbust
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Re: Mass. AG's Office + Drug Testing / State Gov. Drug Testing

Postby FloridaCoastalorbust » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:21 pm

abc12345675 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
This is why I hate law students. Also, 2 years of law school has taught me that I hate law students and law school. We have a duty to question Congress, not obey them and their millionaire, groveling lobbyist butt-kissing asses.


And this is why I hate people under the age of 30. Sure, you can question Congress all you want. That's great. But, that doesn't change the basics of our legal system - if you don't like a statute, then get Congress to change it. Until then, obey it. And, fyi, smoking pot isn't a civil right. I'm sorry if I'm not a K-JD and I don't understand the plight of those who want to smoke pot. But, as an adult, I understand that I have to comply with drug laws, even those I disagree with. But, I can certainly lobby for change.

To reiterate my point, and the point of others, it remains unethical for someone to work/intern/etc. in a prosecutorial position while actively abusing illegal drugs.


Indeed. OP is a complete clown. I'm 23 and I realize this.

Here's a non-anonymous shot at this bozo: You're a LOSER who is unethical, unprofessional, and I hope you don't pass the bar so I don't have to share a profession with you.


I hope you become AG for POTUS and develop financial interests with the Medellin cartel

Anonymous User
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Re: Mass. AG's Office + Drug Testing / State Gov. Drug Testing

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:22 pm

DA in Oklahoma's largest county - a stiff state on drug use - did not drug test for interns/clerks. Best of luck and keep blazin'

LordBeric
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Re: Mass. AG's Office + Drug Testing / State Gov. Drug Testing

Postby LordBeric » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:28 pm

Marijuana is not a crime in Massachusetts, it is an infraction. Therefore, applying the logic here, everyone who ever intentionally speeds, runs a stop sign without coming to a full stop, or jaywalks crossing on a red signal is unfit to work as a prosecutor.

Anonymous User
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Re: Mass. AG's Office + Drug Testing / State Gov. Drug Testing

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:50 pm

LordBeric wrote:Marijuana is not a crime in Massachusetts, it is an infraction. Therefore, applying the logic here, everyone who ever intentionally speeds, runs a stop sign without coming to a full stop, or jaywalks crossing on a red signal is unfit to work as a prosecutor.


Depending on the weight, distribution, possession, transportation, etc. of marijuana is a federal crime. I don't have to engage someone else in a federal felony to intentionally speed, run a stop sign, or jaywalk.

Last time I checked, marijuana is still a Schedule I drug per the DEA.

abc12345675
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Re: Mass. AG's Office + Drug Testing / State Gov. Drug Testing

Postby abc12345675 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:51 pm

LordBeric wrote:Marijuana is not a crime in Massachusetts, it is an infraction. Therefore, applying the logic here, everyone who ever intentionally speeds, runs a stop sign without coming to a full stop, or jaywalks crossing on a red signal is unfit to work as a prosecutor.


Only less than an ounce qualifies for what you said

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ilovesf
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Re: Mass. AG's Office + Drug Testing / State Gov. Drug Testing

Postby ilovesf » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
LordBeric wrote:Marijuana is not a crime in Massachusetts, it is an infraction. Therefore, applying the logic here, everyone who ever intentionally speeds, runs a stop sign without coming to a full stop, or jaywalks crossing on a red signal is unfit to work as a prosecutor.


Depending on the weight, distribution, possession, transportation, etc. of marijuana is a federal crime. I don't have to engage someone else in a federal felony to intentionally speed, run a stop sign, or jaywalk.

Last time I checked, marijuana is still a Schedule I drug per the DEA.

I wish the mods would unmask you.

abc12345675
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Re: Mass. AG's Office + Drug Testing / State Gov. Drug Testing

Postby abc12345675 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:56 pm

ilovesf wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
LordBeric wrote:Marijuana is not a crime in Massachusetts, it is an infraction. Therefore, applying the logic here, everyone who ever intentionally speeds, runs a stop sign without coming to a full stop, or jaywalks crossing on a red signal is unfit to work as a prosecutor.


Depending on the weight, distribution, possession, transportation, etc. of marijuana is a federal crime. I don't have to engage someone else in a federal felony to intentionally speed, run a stop sign, or jaywalk.

Last time I checked, marijuana is still a Schedule I drug per the DEA.

I wish the mods would unmask you.


He's completely right though, SF.

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ilovesf
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Re: Mass. AG's Office + Drug Testing / State Gov. Drug Testing

Postby ilovesf » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:58 pm

abc12345675 wrote:
ilovesf wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
LordBeric wrote:Marijuana is not a crime in Massachusetts, it is an infraction. Therefore, applying the logic here, everyone who ever intentionally speeds, runs a stop sign without coming to a full stop, or jaywalks crossing on a red signal is unfit to work as a prosecutor.


Depending on the weight, distribution, possession, transportation, etc. of marijuana is a federal crime. I don't have to engage someone else in a federal felony to intentionally speed, run a stop sign, or jaywalk.

Last time I checked, marijuana is still a Schedule I drug per the DEA.

I wish the mods would unmask you.


He's completely right though, SF.

I'm not saying anything about whether he/she is right or wrong, that is not the point.

abc12345675
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Re: Mass. AG's Office + Drug Testing / State Gov. Drug Testing

Postby abc12345675 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:00 pm

[quote="ilovesf"][quote="abc12345675"][quote="ilovesf"][quote="Anonymous User"]

Yeah I get it, you're just annoyed he/she posts anonymously. Frankly I agree, I see no reason for it either.

Anonymous User
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Re: Mass. AG's Office + Drug Testing / State Gov. Drug Testing

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:And this is why I hate people under the age of 30. Sure, you can question Congress all you want. That's great. But, that doesn't change the basics of our legal system - if you don't like a statute, then get Congress to change it.


Unfortunately, im not a huge corporation stuffing the pockets of lobbyists, who are in turn stuffing the pockets of politicians, so my vote and voice are effectively meaningless in this country. Doesn't change the basics of our legal system, but that system is flawed in pretty much every elemental aspect of its existance.

Anonymous User wrote:Until then, obey it. And, fyi, smoking pot isn't a civil right. I'm sorry if I'm not a K-JD and I don't understand the plight of those who want to smoke pot. But, as an adult, I understand that I have to comply with drug laws, even those I disagree with. But, I can certainly lobby for change.

To reiterate my point, and the point of others, it remains unethical for someone to work/intern/etc. in a prosecutorial position while actively abusing illegal drugs.


Nah. its a god-given right, just like it is for every new yorker to treat everyone like dirt. As for the hypocricy argument, I think the smoking of pot recreationally in one's personal life, is something that is no one's business. I get if agencys drug test, that is for them to decide. But the fact that most of these agency's/prosecution offices don't drug test (THEY DONT DRUG TEST), means that they don't find it important enough to waste resources on finding out if people do drugs. If the state AG's office doesn't think its that big of a deal, then who gives a shit.

Also, i've met a ton of prosecutors, some of them are great people, with a "moral compass" pointing in the right direction all the time, but many are shit human beings who like putting poor people in jail for doing stuff they most of the time needed to do to feed their family. Don't even let me get into the flawed criminal justice system. Freaking assembly line PD crap doing nothing for their"clients." Shit is a joke.

abc12345675
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Re: Mass. AG's Office + Drug Testing / State Gov. Drug Testing

Postby abc12345675 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:And this is why I hate people under the age of 30. Sure, you can question Congress all you want. That's great. But, that doesn't change the basics of our legal system - if you don't like a statute, then get Congress to change it.


Unfortunately, im not a huge corporation stuffing the pockets of lobbyists, who are in turn stuffing the pockets of politicians, so my vote and voice are effectively meaningless in this country. Doesn't change the basics of our legal system, but that system is flawed in pretty much every elemental aspect of its existance.

Anonymous User wrote:Until then, obey it. And, fyi, smoking pot isn't a civil right. I'm sorry if I'm not a K-JD and I don't understand the plight of those who want to smoke pot. But, as an adult, I understand that I have to comply with drug laws, even those I disagree with. But, I can certainly lobby for change.

To reiterate my point, and the point of others, it remains unethical for someone to work/intern/etc. in a prosecutorial position while actively abusing illegal drugs.


Nah. its a god-given right, just like it is for every new yorker to treat everyone like dirt. As for the hypocricy argument, I think the smoking of pot recreationally in one's personal life, is something that is no one's business. I get if agencys drug test, that is for them to decide. But the fact that most of these agency's/prosecution offices don't drug test (THEY DONT DRUG TEST), means that they don't find it important enough to waste resources on finding out if people do drugs. If the state AG's office doesn't think its that big of a deal, then who gives a shit.

Also, i've met a ton of prosecutors, some of them are great people, with a "moral compass" pointing in the right direction all the time, but many are shit human beings who like putting poor people in jail for doing stuff they most of the time needed to do to feed their family. Don't even let me get into the flawed criminal justice system. Freaking assembly line PD crap doing nothing for their"clients." Shit is YOU ARE a joke.

Anonymous User
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Re: Mass. AG's Office + Drug Testing / State Gov. Drug Testing

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:12 pm

Seriously, ABC, get off your damn high horse. Some people can smoke and do well for themselves unlike what 90s after-school specials and mummy & daddy said. Deal with it.

As it is, majority public opinion favors legalization across the nation and unfortunately the legislature fail to reflect the actual American populace. Most everyone in elected office has used it, most everyone in AGs' offices have used it, most people in the entire country have used it. Empirical studies have not shown honest data proving it's more dangerous than alcohol or tobacco. Just chill, bro.

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PaulKriske
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Re: Mass. AG's Office + Drug Testing / State Gov. Drug Testing

Postby PaulKriske » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:14 pm

abc is jealous because he got caught.

Anonymous User
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Re: Mass. AG's Office + Drug Testing / State Gov. Drug Testing

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Seriously, ABC, get off your damn high horse. Some people can smoke and do well for themselves unlike what 90s after-school specials and mummy & daddy said. Deal with it.

As it is, majority public opinion favors legalization across the nation and unfortunately the legislature fail to reflect the actual American populace. Most everyone in elected office has used it, most everyone in AGs' offices have used it, most people in the entire country have used it. Empirical studies have not shown honest data proving it's more dangerous than alcohol or tobacco. Just chill, bro.


This is not ABC, so don't blame and get upset at him/her. But most attorneys are not ongoing users of drugs. If they have done drugs, it tends to be a "Whoops, did it a few times in the past, I kind of feel guilty about it, but I'm living clean now and keeping what happened in the past quiet and discreet." It tends not to be a brazen, flaunting, and continued disregard of the laws. Maybe OP didn't want to come off as that way, but I totally get the feeling like he's bragging about breaking the laws. That attitude tends to offend people's moral sensibilities.

It doesn't matter whether you think doing drugs is immoral or not. What is unethical is pledging to uphold the laws of Massachusetts, and even though marijuana may not be criminalized, it is still not completely legal. I guarantee you that any AG intern would be in serious trouble if some Boston Globe reporter snapped a photo of a legal intern doing marijuana (people aren't totally apathetic). Interns are the face of the agency like any attorney, and it can really undermine people's faith in government. It's not fair to the people who work hard to maintain the credibility of government.

Anyways, none of this will change anyone's minds. But I can't sit by and be quiet. My conscience speaks. And it worries me that others don't feel just as worried. Anyways, I've said my word, and I'm not going to bother writing anymore because it's probably a lost cause.




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