not happy with SA -- HELP!

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bahamallamamama
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Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:41 pm

not happy with SA -- HELP!

Postby bahamallamamama » Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:06 pm

I'm wrapping up my summer, working at a small firm in a secondary(?) market, a job I landed through OCI despite unimpressive grades. I'm the only summer associate in the office. I like the work and the people, but I hate the location. I don't have any family remotely close. I didn't think much of it at the time, but I've come to realize that I might be too depression-prone to live alone and work at least 90 minutes away from my friends and peers. I can't imagine that I'll want to start my career here.

I'm writing to ask for your advice on how to handle the rest of the summer, what to do if I do/don't get an offer from this firm (knowing that I really wouldn't want to accept it anyway), and how I should think about shopping around for post-graduation work elsewhere. I understand that the job market for new law graduates is generally terrible. I also understand that my grades are far from anything to write home about, something that is hopefully counterbalanced by having a decent resume (good college, good 1L summer, law review).

I know I haven't asked a coherent question...I'm really just hoping you'll throw out as much wisdom, perspective, and advice you may have for me. Thanks!

bahamallamamama
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:41 pm

Re: not happy with SA -- HELP!

Postby bahamallamamama » Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:41 am

bump

LawClerk1234
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:27 pm

Re: not happy with SA -- HELP!

Postby LawClerk1234 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:46 am

focus on getting an offer, even if you absolutely do not want to work at this firm. this will make your 3L job search much, much easier. firms will see you as someone who is simply looking to work in another market. on the other hand, if you have a no-offer, you pretty much have no chance at getting an offer from another firm.

bahamallamamama wrote:I'm wrapping up my summer, working at a small firm in a secondary(?) market, a job I landed through OCI despite unimpressive grades. I'm the only summer associate in the office. I like the work and the people, but I hate the location. I don't have any family remotely close. I didn't think much of it at the time, but I've come to realize that I might be too depression-prone to live alone and work at least 90 minutes away from my friends and peers. I can't imagine that I'll want to start my career here.

I'm writing to ask for your advice on how to handle the rest of the summer, what to do if I do/don't get an offer from this firm (knowing that I really wouldn't want to accept it anyway), and how I should think about shopping around for post-graduation work elsewhere. I understand that the job market for new law graduates is generally terrible. I also understand that my grades are far from anything to write home about, something that is hopefully counterbalanced by having a decent resume (good college, good 1L summer, law review).

I know I haven't asked a coherent question...I'm really just hoping you'll throw out as much wisdom, perspective, and advice you may have for me. Thanks!

JusticeJackson
Posts: 454
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:26 am

Re: not happy with SA -- HELP!

Postby JusticeJackson » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:37 am

.
Last edited by JusticeJackson on Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bahamallamamama
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Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:41 pm

Re: not happy with SA -- HELP!

Postby bahamallamamama » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:22 pm

Should I try to cut the rest of my summer short, or should I tough it out for the period of time we initially agreed upon?

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thelaststraw05
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Re: not happy with SA -- HELP!

Postby thelaststraw05 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:31 pm

bahamallamamama wrote:Should I try to cut the rest of my summer short, or should I tough it out for the period of time we initially agreed upon?


Given that the advice of everyone who responded was to get an offer, I would suggest that you can best do that by working for the period of time you initially agreed upon. Do a good job, keep your head down, and lock up employment. When you're off work, network and send out applications. But don't give up a bird in hand.

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emkay625
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Re: not happy with SA -- HELP!

Postby emkay625 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:32 pm

You need to stick it out.

You will be kicking yourself if you quit early, don't get/reject an offer, and then end up with nothing a year from now.

Work hard. Get an offer. It will make it easier to get another offer.

Even if you end up having to take it, it'll be much easier to find a job if you work there for a year and then start looking, versus being unemployed and looking.

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DCDuck
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Re: not happy with SA -- HELP!

Postby DCDuck » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:41 pm

bahamallamamama wrote:Should I try to cut the rest of my summer short, or should I tough it out for the period of time we initially agreed upon?


Seriously? You can put up with anything for a few weeks. Man up.

lolwat
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Re: not happy with SA -- HELP!

Postby lolwat » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:58 pm

Like everyone else said, get an offer first, which means doing everything you can (including staying the entire summer).

If you like the work and the people, you'll be fine without your friends for long enough until you make new ones or you get a different job closer to where you want to be geographically.

uci2013
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Re: not happy with SA -- HELP!

Postby uci2013 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:42 pm

Getting an offer should probably be a priority, regardless of whether you accept it or not. BUT, if you like the firm and the work, consider that you should be able to make new friends closer to where you will be living. And you aren't too far away to see you friends and family on weekends and the like. Look for ways to get involved in bar groups or the community, join a softball team or some other group that might interest you. Expanding a circle of friends is doable. I've moved a lot in my life. New friendships can be made.

newbienew
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Re: not happy with SA -- HELP!

Postby newbienew » Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:05 pm

This is probably a very naive question, but what good will it do OP to have an offer if he/she doesn't plan to accept it? A few of you have said that it'll be easier for him/her to get another offer with one in hand...but won't OP already have rejected that offer by the time the 3L (or postgraduate) job search rolls around?

I guess my question boils down to this: how does one successfully leverage an offer after rejecting it? Or is it reasonable to accept an offer, then renege a year later if you find another job? I've always assumed this would be a black mark on one's resume.

Anonymous User
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Re: not happy with SA -- HELP!

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:11 pm

newbienew wrote:This is probably a very naive question, but what good will it do OP to have an offer if he/she doesn't plan to accept it? A few of you have said that it'll be easier for him/her to get another offer with one in hand...but won't OP already have rejected that offer by the time the 3L (or postgraduate) job search rolls around?

I guess my question boils down to this: how does one successfully leverage an offer after rejecting it? Or is it reasonable to accept an offer, then renege a year later if you find another job? I've always assumed this would be a black mark on one's resume.


Per NALP, firms are supposed to leave their offers open. Per my experience, some firms won't do this and when that happens, you accept and then you back out. This is what I did, but I post anonymously because this board is not friendly to those that do what I did. When I did it, it wasn't a black mark because the offers were in two completely different markets with completely different employers. If you're going across the hall, it might get around that you're the type of guy that will jump ship looking for greener pastures, but I think that is the worst that could happen. Your employer doesn’t own you, and if you’d be happier somewhere else, think long and hard about it.

newbienew
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Re: not happy with SA -- HELP!

Postby newbienew » Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:18 pm

Thanks, anon. One clarification: when you say firms are supposed to "leave their offers open"...for how long? Throughout the 3L year? Into a potential postgraduate clerkship? It sounds like these things vary, but I'm definitely curious as to the norm here. I had been assuming that the student has to decide whether to accept the offer within a month or two, without knowing what his or her other options might be. Is this not the case?

Anonymous User
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Re: not happy with SA -- HELP!

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:26 pm

3.Employers offering full-time positions to commence following graduation to candidates previously employed by them should leave those offers open until at least November 1 of the candidate’s final year of law school. Candidates should reaffirm these offers within thirty days from the date of the offer letter. Employers may retract any offer that is not reaffirmed within the 30 day period.

BUT

4.Employers offering candidates full-time positions to commence following graduation and having a total of 40 attorneys or fewer in all offices are exempted from Paragraphs 1-3 of this Section. Instead, offers made on or before December 15 should remain open for at least three weeks following the date of the offer letter or until December 30, whichever comes first, and offers made after December 15 should remain open for at least two weeks.


http://www.nalp.org/fulltextofnalpprinc ... _Standards

newbienew
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Re: not happy with SA -- HELP!

Postby newbienew » Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:32 pm

Okay, got it. But doesn't this still mean that if OP finds a different job after November 1st (or 12/30 for a small firm), he wouldn't be able to leverage the first offer unless he does the unpopular "accept and renege" thing? I'm curious for other opinions as to how acceptable that option is. What about someone who accepts an offer, then takes a 1-2 year clerkship after graduation? If that person finds a different, preferable job during the clerkship, how many of you think it'd be acceptable to renege your acceptance of the other offer at that time? I've thought for a while that it's interesting how long into the future a firm can control you...maybe I need to adjust that thought process if it's common to just renege an acceptance when it becomes convenient.

PS -- Sorry to be hijacking your thread, OP, but I do feel like these questions go along with yours. I'll shut up if you prefer. :)

Anonymous User
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Re: not happy with SA -- HELP!

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:59 am

What does reaffirming the offer mean?

bahamallamamama
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Re: not happy with SA -- HELP!

Postby bahamallamamama » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:24 pm

Hijack away.

I doubt I'd be able to lock something down within my first month of returning to school (when the offer was still open). A few things bother me about accepting with the intention to back out. If I were to do that, then I couldn't use these employers as references or ask them for job-searching help with their contacts in my desired market, and I'd also have to be more careful about feeling out other firms since word may get back to my firm. I am less concerned about bad karma or moral wrong or whatever some people might call it, and I'm also not as concerned about this firm's future willingness to hire from my school.

Also I'm pretty new to this board, so if anyone has or can easily find links to topics related to seeking out small/mid-sized firms as a 3L, please post them here. Thanks.




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