COA clerk taking questions Forum

[Myself]

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[LawClerk1234]

i bet that a good number of judges rely primarily on professor recommendations. I've spoken about clerk hiring with law clerks for other judges on my circuit, and very few of them actually look at all of the applications that come through OSCAR.

Thanks for answering questions, but don't you think that your own experience was a little atypical and rare? Not too many of us have professors that are going to hook us up with a clerkship.

[Myself]

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[LawClerk1234]

It really varies. Most judges don't keep tabs on the fluctuations in the US News rankings, but they generally know the top 3, top 6, and top 14. My judge only considers applicants who are in the top 5 percent from the T14.

i bet that a good number of judges rely primarily on professor recommendations. I've spoken about clerk hiring with law clerks for other judges on my circuit, and very few of them actually look at all of the applications that come through OSCAR.

Thanks for answering questions, but don't you think that your own experience was a little atypical and rare? Not too many of us have professors that are going to hook us up with a clerkship.

Ah ic. How do judges decide which applications to look at? GPA? School? What are the auto-filters?

[Anonymous User]

I'm not sure how much info you have, but any ballpark idea what kinds of grades are necessary from HLS/SLS for the most selective CoA judges?

My judge (considered one of the most selective judges on 2/9/DC) generally did not like to see more than 3-4 Ps on a transcript, but this was not a hard and fast rule. Recommendations from trusted faculty could wash away a multitude of Ps.

[Anonymous User]

when asked for an official transcript, its okay to send a photocopied version of an official transcript?

[LawClerk1234]

yeah, that's fine

when asked for an official transcript, its okay to send a photocopied version of an official transcript?

[Anonymous User]

For purposes of applying for a second clerkship, do you have a sense of whether a call to chambers from a district or COA judge is given more, less, or equal weight than a call from a professor?

[madame defarge]

For purposes of applying for a second clerkship, do you have a sense of whether a call to chambers from a district or COA judge is given more, less, or equal weight than a call from a professor?

If you have actually clerked for the judge (as opposed to being a prospective clerk), his or her recommendation will carry great weight with your target judge. Only a call from a professor the judge knows personally and trusts (a "feeder professor") would carry more weight.

Why not have both call?

[LawClerk1234]

At least for my judge, a call from another judge is always better. This is why summer externships with judges are very helpful. Judges are often hesitant to make calls to other judges on behalf of their externs, but most will do so if you really kicked butt.

For purposes of applying for a second clerkship, do you have a sense of whether a call to chambers from a district or COA judge is given more, less, or equal weight than a call from a professor?

[Anonymous User]

How much weight, if any, is given to a "prestigious" law firm?

[LawClerk1234]

None. My judge usually hires right out of law school, though sometimes he takes clerks who have practiced for a few years. Either way, he doesn't really care about the prestige of your 2L summer firm. Most people we interview summered at very good firms, but that's because of my judge's grade/school requirements.

How much weight, if any, is given to a "prestigious" law firm?

[LawClerk1234]

back online and taking questions for a bit

[Anonymous User]

Do you recommend any particular pre-clerkship reading? I've heard Judge Aldisert's Opinion Writing can be useful, but the process seems so judge-specific that I wonder whether it would be worth the time.

[LawClerk1234]

I skimmed though Aldisert's book because my judge has a copy in his chambers. But I agree that the process is so judge-specific that the book is not useful. Aldisert has a very particular way of writing opinions, and my judge does not follow it. The best preparation that you can do is to read all of your judge's recent opinions.

Do you recommend any particular pre-clerkship reading? I've heard Judge Aldisert's Opinion Writing can be useful, but the process seems so judge-specific that I wonder whether it would be worth the time.

[madame defarge]

Do you recommend any particular pre-clerkship reading? I've heard Judge Aldisert's Opinion Writing can be useful, but the process seems so judge-specific that I wonder whether it would be worth the time.

It's a dry read, but you may want to skim over the Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure and your own circuit's rules/general orders.

[Anonymous User]

Do you recommend any particular pre-clerkship reading? I've heard Judge Aldisert's Opinion Writing can be useful, but the process seems so judge-specific that I wonder whether it would be worth the time.

It's a dry read, but you may want to skim over the Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure and your own circuit's rules/general orders.

For a writing sample, is there anything about the mini-note format (from journal competition) that would be less desirable as a writing sample than a memo or a brief? It's 13 or 14 pages long. Thanks a lot!

[sfxx]

Can you give us an example of what a typical day is for you? In other words, a detailed description of what you do from the second you get to the chambers to the minute before you leave.

[LawClerk1234]

I would really avoid a journal competition note. It's best if you can submit a student note or other published article. But if you haven't published, then you should submit a seminar paper. The judge and his current clerks often will want to talk with you about the substance of the note. You can't do that with a write-on entry.

Do you recommend any particular pre-clerkship reading? I've heard Judge Aldisert's Opinion Writing can be useful, but the process seems so judge-specific that I wonder whether it would be worth the time.

It's a dry read, but you may want to skim over the Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure and your own circuit's rules/general orders.

For a writing sample, is there anything about the mini-note format (from journal competition) that would be less desirable as a writing sample than a memo or a brief? It's 13 or 14 pages long. Thanks a lot!

[LawClerk1234]

Frankly, it's pretty boring. The judge meets with all of us each morning, and we talk about any legal questions/issues that we're encountering in our work. That lasts anywhere from 1 minute to 2 hours. Then for the rest of the day, I sit at my computer and write bench memos and opinions. A lot of time reviewing the record. The only break in this routine is when we have oral argument. I'd imagine that a district court clerkship is more exciting.

Can you give us an example of what a typical day is for you? In other words, a detailed description of what you do from the second you get to the chambers to the minute before you leave.

[redbullvodka]

Any law school success tips? Top 1% is one hell of an accomplishment.

[LawClerk1234]

Just focus on the endgame, which is the exam. It sounds simple, but so many law students get caught up in things that don't matter at all, like participating in class. At the beginning of each semester, I looked over the professor's past exams and model answers. That allowed me to see how the professor tests, what topics tend to come up on exams, etc, and I tailor my note-taking/outlining accordingly.

I also relied heavily on hornbooks and treatises. I skimmed the cases, so I didn't look like an idiot when I was called on, but I did not focus on the casebooks. I know that this goes against everything that law professors tell you, but it worked very well for me. Every week, I would update my outline, which was pretty much just a combination of my class notes and the hornbook rules. It's very important to take good notes in class, and to integrate them into your outline, because your professor's view of the law may not be totally accurate or up to date. But your professor writes and grades the test, so you want to use his legal rules and terminology.

Frankly, I found undergraduate classes to be much, much harder than law school. You just need to learn how to play the game.

Any law school success tips? Top 1% is one hell of an accomplishment.

[redbullvodka]

Just focus on the endgame, which is the exam. It sounds simple, but so many law students get caught up in things that don't matter at all, like participating in class. At the beginning of each semester, I looked over the professor's past exams and model answers. That allowed me to see how the professor tests, what topics tend to come up on exams, etc, and I tailor my note-taking/outlining accordingly.

I also relied heavily on hornbooks and treatises. I skimmed the cases, so I didn't look like an idiot when I was called on, but I did not focus on the casebooks. I know that this goes against everything that law professors tell you, but it worked very well for me. Every week, I would update my outline, which was pretty much just a combination of my class notes and the hornbook rules. It's very important to take good notes in class, and to integrate them into your outline, because your professor's view of the law may not be totally accurate or up to date. But your professor writes and grades the test, so you want to use his legal rules and terminology.

Frankly, I found undergraduate classes to be much, much harder than law school. You just need to learn how to play the game.

Any law school success tips? Top 1% is one hell of an accomplishment.

Major/Undergrad (range is fine)? Just curious, considering the last comment. Thanks for the answer!!

[LawClerk1234]

Don't want to get too specific, but it was a hard science at a top 10 school.

Just focus on the endgame, which is the exam. It sounds simple, but so many law students get caught up in things that don't matter at all, like participating in class. At the beginning of each semester, I looked over the professor's past exams and model answers. That allowed me to see how the professor tests, what topics tend to come up on exams, etc, and I tailor my note-taking/outlining accordingly.

I also relied heavily on hornbooks and treatises. I skimmed the cases, so I didn't look like an idiot when I was called on, but I did not focus on the casebooks. I know that this goes against everything that law professors tell you, but it worked very well for me. Every week, I would update my outline, which was pretty much just a combination of my class notes and the hornbook rules. It's very important to take good notes in class, and to integrate them into your outline, because your professor's view of the law may not be totally accurate or up to date. But your professor writes and grades the test, so you want to use his legal rules and terminology.

Frankly, I found undergraduate classes to be much, much harder than law school. You just need to learn how to play the game.

Any law school success tips? Top 1% is one hell of an accomplishment.

Major/Undergrad (range is fine)? Just curious, considering the last comment. Thanks for the answer!!

[Anonymous User]

Any way for top quarter at HYS to stand out and get a second look? Does it take LR e-board, or a solid call, or ties to the area, or what?

Trying to make the best of the hand I've dealt myself. Thanks!