CLS to DC market?

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Anonymous User
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CLS to DC market?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:51 pm

Hi, rising 2L at Columbia here trying to put together my bid list for EIP. Stone (roughly top third), no LR, decent journal, but no real W/E (went straight through from college). I have an interest in healthcare, but not completely sure that's what I want to do, otherwise my interest is in litigation. Partly for healthcare interest and partly just because I like it there, I'm trying to shoot for DC, but I don't know how realistic my chances are and I don't want to strike out at EIP. I have some ties (interned there for a summer), but not anything really extensive.

OCS told me to bid 20 DC and 10 NY, is this reasonable advice or should I not even spend that many bids on DC? Additionally, would it be a poor choice to bid for both NY and DC offices at a firm that allows it?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

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rayiner
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Re: CLS to DC market?

Postby rayiner » Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi, rising 2L at Columbia here trying to put together my bid list for EIP. Stone (roughly top third), no LR, decent journal, but no real W/E (went straight through from college). I have an interest in healthcare, but not completely sure that's what I want to do, otherwise my interest is in litigation. Partly for healthcare interest and partly just because I like it there, I'm trying to shoot for DC, but I don't know how realistic my chances are and I don't want to strike out at EIP. I have some ties (interned there for a summer), but not anything really extensive.

OCS told me to bid 20 DC and 10 NY, is this reasonable advice or should I not even spend that many bids on DC? Additionally, would it be a poor choice to bid for both NY and DC offices at a firm that allows it?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks.


I'd imagine DC isn't super popular from CLS, so you can bid them low. I think a good approach would be bidding 7-8 NYC firms near the top of your bid list, a couple of DC firms you really really want, then shot-gunning a bunch of DC firms in the rest of your bid list. Bid V10/V25 with big classes in NY.

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Re: CLS to DC market?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:14 pm

What if you have similar ambitions and background as OP, but worse grades. Like medianish.

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rayiner
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Re: CLS to DC market?

Postby rayiner » Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What if you have similar ambitions and background as OP, but worse grades. Like medianish.


Probably the same.

Here's the thing about D.C. From either top 1/3 or median, you have little to no shot at Covington, Wilmer, etc. Pretty small chance at Hogan, Sidley, Kirkland, Latham, Skadden, or Arnold & Porter. These are all the firms that have big summer classes (20+). So you're stuck bidding on DC firms that have small summer classes (5-7). Bidding on such firms involves a huge amount of luck. Median at HYS will be gunning for those firms, and how well you click with the interviewer plays a big role when so few open spots are on the table.

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Re: CLS to DC market?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:11 pm

What GPA is top 1/3? I have a 3.65+ and a secondary journal and my career counselor told me that DC was unlikely. I don't have any ties.

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Re: CLS to DC market?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What GPA is top 1/3? I have a 3.65+ and a secondary journal and my career counselor told me that DC was unlikely. I don't have any ties.


How can you be at CLS and not know that 3.41 (Stone) is, essentially, 30%?

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Re: CLS to DC market?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What GPA is top 1/3? I have a 3.65+ and a secondary journal and my career counselor told me that DC was unlikely. I don't have any ties.

I have similar stats but strong ties and work experience and they told me I'd be fine. Inconsistent advice or are ties and work experience that important for DC?

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Re: CLS to DC market?

Postby snowkat » Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What GPA is top 1/3? I have a 3.65+ and a secondary journal and my career counselor told me that DC was unlikely. I don't have any ties.


How can you be at CLS and not know that 3.41 (Stone) is, essentially, 30%?


I knew that it was that in the past; I wasn't sure that it remained the same under the new curve. It seems like there is not really good info about what percentiles are now and I was hopeful that someone had better info than I did.

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Re: CLS to DC market?

Postby DeweyWins » Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What GPA is top 1/3? I have a 3.65+ and a secondary journal and my career counselor told me that DC was unlikely. I don't have any ties.

I graduated with about the same GPA and I always figured I was around top 15-20%. I also find it odd that a career counselor would say that to you, unless you're gunning for very selective firms (like say, W&C).

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Re: CLS to DC market?

Postby BruceWayne » Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:46 pm

DeweyWins wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What GPA is top 1/3? I have a 3.65+ and a secondary journal and my career counselor told me that DC was unlikely. I don't have any ties.

I graduated with about the same GPA and I always figured I was around top 15-20%. I also find it odd that a career counselor would say that to you, unless you're gunning for very selective firms (like say, W&C).


It's not that odd. Unless you're HYS or top 10 percent at another top 14 you don't have a good shot at the main DC firms.

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Re: CLS to DC market?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:50 pm

OP here. Thanks for the input so far. I stuck with about 10 NY firms and 20 DC, but does this bid list look reasonable, or is it a bit ridiculous? I know I put both DC and NY for a few firms, and I'm not sure if that's a bad thing.


1) Sidley Austin (NY)
2) Proskauer (NY)
3) Nixon Peabody (NY)
4) Ropes & Gray (DC)
5) Alston & Bird (DC)
6) Debevoise (NY)
7) Bingham (NY)
8 ) Weil (NY)
9) Sidley Austin (DC)
10) Akin Gump (DC)
11) Freshfields (NY)
12) Hogan Lovells (DC)
13) Arnold & Porter (DC)
14) Paul Weiss (DC)
15) Latham (DC)
16) Reed Smith (NY)
17) Cleary (DC)
18) Debevoise (DC)
19) Crowell & Moring (DC)
20) Paul Weiss (NY)
21) WilmerHale (DC)
22) Jones Day (DC)
23) Gibson Dunn (DC)
24) Dickstein Shapiro (DC)
25) Epstein Becker (DC)
26) Patton Boggs (NY)
27) K &L Gates (DC)
28) Goodwin Procter (DC)
29) Kirkland & Ellis (DC)
30) O’Melveny (DC)

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Re: CLS to DC market?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:20 pm

Hi,

General question:

What makes it so difficult to get into the DC market? I have no interest in DC, just wondering.

I'm very surprised that a 3.6+ from CLS would likely be shut out.

Many thanks,
Anon

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Re: CLS to DC market?

Postby Magnificent » Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi,

General question:

What makes it so difficult to get into the DC market? I have no interest in DC, just wondering.

I'm very surprised that a 3.6+ from CLS would likely be shut out.

Many thanks,
Anon


Its the top of the legal profession PLUS the firms don't hire many summers PLUS the top students at HYS want to be there. Anyone who wants to practice law at the highest level comes to DC. NYC is where you go to be a servant for bankers.

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rayiner
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Re: CLS to DC market?

Postby rayiner » Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Thanks for the input so far. I stuck with about 10 NY firms and 20 DC, but does this bid list look reasonable, or is it a bit ridiculous? I know I put both DC and NY for a few firms, and I'm not sure if that's a bad thing.

1) Sidley Austin (NY)
2) Proskauer (NY)
3) Nixon Peabody (NY)
4) Ropes & Gray (DC)
5) Alston & Bird (DC)
6) Debevoise (NY)
7) Bingham (NY)
8 ) Weil (NY)
9) Sidley Austin (DC)
10) Akin Gump (DC)
11) Freshfields (NY)
12) Hogan Lovells (DC)
13) Arnold & Porter (DC)
14) Paul Weiss (DC)
15) Latham (DC)
16) Reed Smith (NY)
17) Cleary (DC)
18) Debevoise (DC)
19) Crowell & Moring (DC)
20) Paul Weiss (NY)
21) WilmerHale (DC)
22) Jones Day (DC)
23) Gibson Dunn (DC)
24) Dickstein Shapiro (DC)
25) Epstein Becker (DC)
26) Patton Boggs (NY)
27) K &L Gates (DC)
28) Goodwin Procter (DC)
29) Kirkland & Ellis (DC)
30) O’Melveny (DC)


It's a weird bid list. Top 1/3 at CLS should be golden for V10 or at least V25. When you're in the grade range for those firms, you have a much better shot at them than you do at V100 type places that don't hire as many summers. I'm not quite sure how high you have to bid NYC firms at CLS to get them, but you want the interview schedule you end up with to look something like this:

NY:
Cravath, Simpson, Skadden, Kirkland, Paul Weiss, Gibson Dunn, Shearman, Jones Day. You can shuffle Debevoise for Gibson Dunn or Proskauer for Jones Day or whatever, but the trick is to cover the reach -> safety spectrum while sticking to firms that have big class sizes.

DC:
Wilmer, Arnold & Porter, Hogan, Sidley, Kirkland, Latham, Skadden, then whatever other ones you get like Dickstien Shapiro, etc. It doesn't matter because once you get to firms hiring only 10 people or less, it's a total crap shot.

This is assuming you want litigation.

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Re: CLS to DC market?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:20 pm

OP again. Thanks for taking a look; I also spoke to OCS again and switched out a couple NY offices to ones with bigger classes.

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Re: CLS to DC market?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:52 pm

GDC (DC), Kirkland DC, OMM DC, and Wilmer DC are going to be a bit of a stretch at top 1/3.

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Re: CLS to DC market?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:09 am

I'm at a no-name firm in DC and the CCN people (not a huge sample mind you) have surprisingly good grades.

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Re: CLS to DC market?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:03 am

FWIW I did CLS to a major DC firm without LR and around a 3.6 gpa. I figure that gpa was just outside of top 10%, though I agree with the earlier poster that 3.65 is probably top 15-20% come graduation. I don't know how all the gpa stuff works, however, with this past year's 1L grade inflation.

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Re: CLS to DC market?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:13 am

Dumb question, but when you bid can the firms see your bidlist? Is there any advantage you get for having a firm high up on your bid list? Thanks for the help.

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Re: CLS to DC market?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:30 am

I remember hearing from OCS that they dont see your bidlist.

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Re: CLS to DC market?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm at a no-name firm in DC and the CCN people (not a huge sample mind you) have surprisingly good grades.


did you get this via EIP/OCI or otherwise?

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Re: CLS to DC market?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:05 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
DeweyWins wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What GPA is top 1/3? I have a 3.65+ and a secondary journal and my career counselor told me that DC was unlikely. I don't have any ties.

I graduated with about the same GPA and I always figured I was around top 15-20%. I also find it odd that a career counselor would say that to you, unless you're gunning for very selective firms (like say, W&C).


It's not that odd. Unless you're HYS or top 10 percent at another top 14 you don't have a good shot at the main DC firms.


Roughly top 20% at N w/ near-exclusive DC bidding. Yikes. You're saying good chance I strike out?

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rayiner
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Re: CLS to DC market?

Postby rayiner » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Roughly top 20% at N w/ near-exclusive DC bidding. Yikes. You're saying good chance I strike out?


Unless you're a lock for top DC firms that hire a decent number of people (I'd say top 5-10% outside HYS), there's always a chance of striking out bidding exclusively DC. DC firms aren't trying to fill 100-spot summer classes like NYC firms are. They don't have to hire everyone within their grade range to fill those spots. They don't do things like offer 90-100% of the people they call back like CSM/S&C/etc do. You're in the grade range for a lot of DC firms, but that doesn't mean as much as it does in other markets.

No reason to put yourself in that position. Spend a couple of those bids to lock down a V10.




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