Michigan OCI 2012

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Re: Michigan OCI 2012

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone know or can a 3L talk about what firms have been flooded with bids in the past? Lots of people have mentioned that the lower GPA firms are usually overbid (and so you should bid them high in your list), but at what GPA mean/median does that taper off? If I'm bidding on firms in the 3.5-3.6 range as well as some firms with a lower range, should I worry about not getting interviews with the 3.5-3.6 firms and bid them high?


Rising 3L here. I wouldn't worry so much about firms in the 3.5-3.6 range, since at that point only 1/3 of the class is really in the running to begin with. Figure that market preferences will reduce that 1/3 by some amount (depending on your market), and your odds of getting an interview should be pretty decent. Based on my experience, when you get below a 3.35-3.4 median (very roughly speaking), a whole lot more of the class is in play for those spots and interviews became tougher to land. Generally, I'd suggest initially ranking them in inverse order of median GPA and make adjustments up or down based on other factors (number of offices, practice areas, class size, number of interviewers, etc).

Final piece of advice - definitely bid a firm interviewing for SAs at multiple offices a few slots higher than a comparable-median firm interviewing for a single office, since the former will draw bids from more of your classmates. For the instances where I didn't get a lottery interview despite a high bid, it was for firms sending only 1-2 interviewers but screening for numerous offices.

Example for all of the above: At the extremes, think of Pillsbury and SullCrom. For a firm like Pillsbury (one of the least selective, and interviewing for lots of offices IIRC - DC, SF, LA, NYC), probably 70-80% of the class would meet their grade cutoffs, and people looking at a huge number of markets would want the slots. Put them in your top few bids. For a firm like SullCrom, maybe 20% of the class has any shot to begin with, and they're only (or at least primarily) interviewing for NYC - so you can bid them late and still have a very good shot at getting an interview.

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Re: Michigan OCI 2012

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Final piece of advice - definitely bid a firm interviewing for SAs at multiple offices a few slots higher than a comparable-median firm interviewing for a single office, since the former will draw bids from more of your classmates. For the instances where I didn't get a lottery interview despite a high bid, it was for firms sending only 1-2 interviewers but screening for numerous offices.


How do we find out how many interviewers are coming per firm and how many interviews they'll be conducting? (Or is there some sort of standard number?) Haven't seen that info anywhere...

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Re: Michigan OCI 2012

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:48 pm

Rising 3L (and this is NYC advice only): the firms with higher GPA cut-offs that are more difficult to get are STB, Skadden, Latham and Paul Weiss (as in, you can't put them bottom 5). DPW, GDC and Debevoise are easy to get, even if you put them bottom 5. I don't know about Kirkland because I didn't bid on them, and I bid Weil fairly high. I'm guessing Cravath and SullCrom will have open spots, and Quinn definitely had open spots last year, but I didn't bid any of them.

They've also never sent the number of offices/interviewers which kind of blows because it makes it harder to game. I worked around this, looked at GPA's, size of SA classes and number of offers, ranked accordingly and ended up getting #1-14, 16 and 28-30 on my bidlist just off the lottery.

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Re: Michigan OCI 2012

Postby buckilaw » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:49 pm

So I'm sure this topic has been raised in the past, but should we put our Law School GPAs on our resumes? I know OCS recommends we don't do this, and I'm leaning towards not putting my GPA on my resume because interviewers will have our transcripts. Interesting discussion about this topic on the first page in this thread... viewtopic.php?f=23&t=188983&p=5682530#p5682530

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Re: Michigan OCI 2012

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:02 am

Any advice on where to put firms in smaller markets such as Grand Rapids or Indianapolis, if I am bidding them plus one large market? (Median GPA)

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Re: Michigan OCI 2012

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:21 pm

buckilaw wrote:So I'm sure this topic has been raised in the past, but should we put our Law School GPAs on our resumes? I know OCS recommends we don't do this, and I'm leaning towards not putting my GPA on my resume because interviewers will have our transcripts. Interesting discussion about this topic on the first page in this thread... http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 0#p5682530

from what i hear, no one at mich puts their gpa on their resume. why would you? they have our transcripts. it seems redundant-if you have a low gpa, why emphasize it, and if you have a high one, they already will know when they see your transcript.

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Re: Michigan OCI 2012

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:04 pm

i think i read somewhere on this website that if you don't get a spot after bidding on a firm, OCS sends the firm the resumes of everyone who was unable to get time. if that's the case, then people with high GPA's would want to include that info, right? as maybe the firm might want to make room for you? this is more a question than a statement.


Anonymous User wrote:
buckilaw wrote:So I'm sure this topic has been raised in the past, but should we put our Law School GPAs on our resumes? I know OCS recommends we don't do this, and I'm leaning towards not putting my GPA on my resume because interviewers will have our transcripts. Interesting discussion about this topic on the first page in this thread... viewtopic.php?f=23&t=188983&p=5682530#p5682530

from what i hear, no one at mich puts their gpa on their resume. why would you? they have our transcripts. it seems redundant-if you have a low gpa, why emphasize it, and if you have a high one, they already will know when they see your transcript.

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Re: Michigan OCI 2012

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:i think i read somewhere on this website that if you don't get a spot after bidding on a firm, OCS sends the firm the resumes of everyone who was unable to get time. if that's the case, then people with high GPA's would want to include that info, right? as maybe the firm might want to make room for you? this is more a question than a statement.


Anonymous User wrote:
buckilaw wrote:So I'm sure this topic has been raised in the past, but should we put our Law School GPAs on our resumes? I know OCS recommends we don't do this, and I'm leaning towards not putting my GPA on my resume because interviewers will have our transcripts. Interesting discussion about this topic on the first page in this thread... viewtopic.php?f=23&t=188983&p=5682530#p5682530

from what i hear, no one at mich puts their gpa on their resume. why would you? they have our transcripts. it seems redundant-if you have a low gpa, why emphasize it, and if you have a high one, they already will know when they see your transcript.


I'm pretty sure that somewhere in that OCI packet we were given, it says that when OCP does their "resume check" (once you've uploaded your resume onto symplicity), one of the things that they look for is that you did not include your GPA. Feel free to double-check, obviously, but I didn't include my GPA because I didn't want to screw with the entire uploading process.

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Re: Michigan OCI 2012

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:03 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:i think i read somewhere on this website that if you don't get a spot after bidding on a firm, OCS sends the firm the resumes of everyone who was unable to get time. if that's the case, then people with high GPA's would want to include that info, right? as maybe the firm might want to make room for you? this is more a question than a statement.


Anonymous User wrote:
buckilaw wrote:So I'm sure this topic has been raised in the past, but should we put our Law School GPAs on our resumes? I know OCS recommends we don't do this, and I'm leaning towards not putting my GPA on my resume because interviewers will have our transcripts. Interesting discussion about this topic on the first page in this thread... viewtopic.php?f=23&t=188983&p=5682530#p5682530

from what i hear, no one at mich puts their gpa on their resume. why would you? they have our transcripts. it seems redundant-if you have a low gpa, why emphasize it, and if you have a high one, they already will know when they see your transcript.


I'm pretty sure that somewhere in that OCI packet we were given, it says that when OCP does their "resume check" (once you've uploaded your resume onto symplicity), one of the things that they look for is that you did not include your GPA. Feel free to double-check, obviously, but I didn't include my GPA because I didn't want to screw with the entire uploading process.


you're right. they do check, but then they OK it -- even with the GPA listed. it's a mere suggestion.

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Re: Michigan OCI 2012

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:28 pm

Just FYI, the Bay Area market consultant OCS set us up with last semester told me I'd be crazy not to put my GPA on my resume, even after I told him OCS recommended against it. I have a 3.7+, but I think conventional wisdom is that if you have above a 3.5, why not make it visible? It's half an inch on your resume. OCS just insists that if you do include it, you make sure employers know it's off a 4.3 scale, i.e. 3.6xx / 4.3. I think they do check for that during the approval step.

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Re: Michigan OCI 2012

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:12 pm

Does anyone have any advice on where to bid the Michigan firms?

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lawyergirl47
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Re: Michigan OCI 2012

Postby lawyergirl47 » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:14 am

2L here, looking to bid DC/NY at OCI. Would anyone who has experience bidding these markets be willing to look at my bid list?

Thanks so much!

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Re: Michigan OCI 2012

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Any advice on where to put firms in smaller markets such as Grand Rapids or Indianapolis, if I am bidding them plus one large market? (Median GPA)


If you have strong Grand Rapids ties, you should be fine. If you don't have strong Grand Rapids ties, don't bid on those firms. The ties are a must.

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Bronte
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Re: Michigan OCI 2012

Postby Bronte » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just FYI, the Bay Area market consultant OCS set us up with last semester told me I'd be crazy not to put my GPA on my resume, even after I told him OCS recommended against it. I have a 3.7+, but I think conventional wisdom is that if you have above a 3.5, why not make it visible? It's half an inch on your resume. OCS just insists that if you do include it, you make sure employers know it's off a 4.3 scale, i.e. 3.6xx / 4.3. I think they do check for that during the approval step.


You would not be crazy not to put it on your resume. I had a high GPA and I didn't put it on my resume and I had a very high conversion rate. We had this discussion last year and there was no consensus. It's not crazy either way and probably hardly makes a difference, but I chose to leave it off.

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Re: Michigan OCI 2012

Postby AnonCoward » Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:00 pm

nm

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Re: Michigan OCI 2012

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:47 pm

Not an OCI question, but a 2L application question in general--when a firm asks for a transcript to be uploaded online, should i be uploading the transcript I can request? or the unofficial transcript from wolverine access? There are two versions, one which requires emails/sends you codes for verification and only allows a certain number of downloads once you've requested it, and another that is the plain old unofficial transcript on the wolverine access. the wolverine access includes classes for the fall semester that I haven't yet taken.

thanks!

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Re: Michigan OCI 2012

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Not an OCI question, but a 2L application question in general--when a firm asks for a transcript to be uploaded online, should i be uploading the transcript I can request? or the unofficial transcript from wolverine access? There are two versions, one which requires emails/sends you codes for verification and only allows a certain number of downloads once you've requested it, and another that is the plain old unofficial transcript on the wolverine access. the wolverine access includes classes for the fall semester that I haven't yet taken.

thanks!


what are other people in this thread sending?

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Re: Michigan OCI 2012

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:07 am

Can someone address how where to bid Grand Rapids firms. The answer above had to do with ties to Grand Rapids, but I am wondering about where to place them on my bid list, as to maximize my number of interviews, while still being able to interview at the Grand Rapids firms. Also, any thoughts on median for Grand Rapids if I am from the area?

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Re: Michigan OCI 2012

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:55 pm

Any thoughts on where to bid GR?

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Bronte
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Re: Michigan OCI 2012

Postby Bronte » Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:02 am

Anonymous User wrote:Any thoughts on where to bid GR?


You're going to be in a significant minority bidding Michigan firms. I would think you could bid them low. In any event, if you have ties, you should have no problem getting an interview through other channels. If the bids don't come through--and I would be shocked--email them and request to meet with them.

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Re: Michigan OCI 2012

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:42 am

Any tips or ideas on where to bid Minneapolis firms if I have ties? Do I bid them high? Low? How about Denver with few or no ties?

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Re: Michigan OCI 2012

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:51 pm

So in looking at Symplicity, do firms not require/request Cover Letters for OCI? I don't see any place to put them under bid/application details.

steele
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Re: Michigan OCI 2012

Postby steele » Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So in looking at Symplicity, do firms not require/request Cover Letters for OCI? I don't see any place to put them under bid/application details.


The only firm that requests a cover letter is Paul Hastings

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Re: Michigan OCI 2012

Postby donniedarko » Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:02 pm

steele wrote: The only firm that requests a cover letter is Paul Hastings


This is what I was told as well. My understanding was that the letter was supposed to address the "why this city" question...

Does anyone know what the required formate for the letter is?

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Re: Michigan OCI 2012

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:09 pm

steele wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So in looking at Symplicity, do firms not require/request Cover Letters for OCI? I don't see any place to put them under bid/application details.


The only firm that requests a cover letter is Paul Hastings

Wow, so all I need is a resume? This makes bidding in the next two days much easier! Guess I still need to strategize well but don't need to individualize cover letters for each.




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