180.75 @ Chicago Law

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:36 pm

Yes, I realized that's what you were trying to convey. I was responding to your unnecessay insult with one of my own. Except yours didn't make sense, since my initial post was completely consistent with knowing what median means. You seem cool! Have fun

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Haymarket
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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Haymarket » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Yes, I realized that's what you were trying to convey. I was responding to your unnecessay insult with one of my own. Except yours didn't make sense, since my initial post was completely consistent with knowing what median means. You seem cool! Have fun

What? Anyway, solid use of anon.

A-Cow-Demia
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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby A-Cow-Demia » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:My only point is that median GPA is likely to be higher than 177. If I had to guess, I'd guess it's higher than 178.

I doubt it's that high. After all, only 20-30% of each class graduates with a 179 or above—and that's after everyone has taken seminars, clinics, corporate lab, and the like.

I would say it's around 179.5 after 1L year. But that's just a guess.

EDIT: I meant 177.5.

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:14 pm

I just have a lot of anecdotal evidence of people getting really high grades but none of people getting really low grades. A lot of that must be selection bias, but it is also consistent with how I would expect professors to grade when there's a forced median but not a forced symmetrical curve.

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rayiner
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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby rayiner » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:48 pm

.

See below.
Last edited by rayiner on Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rayiner
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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby rayiner » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:54 pm

.
Last edited by rayiner on Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:53 pm

What makes you think the overall mean has to be equal to the mean for one class (if that's what you're saying)? I thought the only requirement is that each class have a median of 177.

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:57 pm

rayiner wrote:As for how much the median deviates from the mean... asymmetric curves that skew high will have a lower median than their mean. Outlier high grades not balanced by outlier low grades raise the mean but not the median. It's when you have a curve skewed low, with outlier low grades, where the median will be higher than the mean.


Yes but the median GPA will be higher in the former situation (where all classes have asymmetric curves that skew high) than in the latter.

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Ozymandias » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I just have a lot of anecdotal evidence of people getting really high grades but none of people getting really low grades. A lot of that must be selection bias, but it is also consistent with how I would expect professors to grade when there's a forced median but not a forced symmetrical curve.

If you're openly discussing all your grades with people, there's a good chance you and/or they are gunners or strivers, and people with poor grades aren't going to go around telling someone like you that they got a 172 in crim, so I'm going to assume your experience is almost all selection bias.

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rayiner
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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby rayiner » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
rayiner wrote:As for how much the median deviates from the mean... asymmetric curves that skew high will have a lower median than their mean. Outlier high grades not balanced by outlier low grades raise the mean but not the median. It's when you have a curve skewed low, with outlier low grades, where the median will be higher than the mean.


Yes but the median GPA will be higher in the former situation (where all classes have asymmetric curves that skew high) than in the latter.


No.

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:23 pm

A-Cow-Demia wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:My only point is that median GPA is likely to be higher than 177. If I had to guess, I'd guess it's higher than 178.

I doubt it's that high. After all, only 20-30% of each class graduates with a 179 or above—and that's after everyone has taken seminars, clinics, corporate lab, and the like.

I would say it's around 179.5 after 1L year. But that's just a guess.

EDIT: I meant 177.5.

Having seen full grade spreads for several classes, I can tell you that the curves are usually pretty symmetrical. There's no way the median GPA is 178.

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby A-Cow-Demia » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Having seen full grade spreads for several classes, I can tell you that the curves are usually pretty symmetrical. There's no way the median GPA is 178.

I saw some spreads from a few years ago, and there were almost twice as many A's as C's. But perhaps things have changed.

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:47 pm

rayiner wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
rayiner wrote:As for how much the median deviates from the mean... asymmetric curves that skew high will have a lower median than their mean. Outlier high grades not balanced by outlier low grades raise the mean but not the median. It's when you have a curve skewed low, with outlier low grades, where the median will be higher than the mean.


Yes but the median GPA will be higher in the former situation (where all classes have asymmetric curves that skew high) than in the latter.


No.


Obviously median GPA will still be < mean GPA. But median GPA will be higher than the median grade in any given class, which is the point of this discussion.

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rayiner
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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby rayiner » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:28 pm

Never mind, you're right. I was assuming U Chicago's curve was defined in terms of the mean, but apparently its defined in terms of the median. In that case if the curve screws high, the median GPA will indeed be higher than the class median.

Imagine our hypothetical perfect median student who is equally likely to land above the median as below it. If the mean skews above 177, then each time he lands above the median he gains more on his GPA than he loses each time he lands below the median. After a number of classes, his GPA ends up being higher than the curve median but equal to the curve mean.

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:41 pm

A-Cow-Demia wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Having seen full grade spreads for several classes, I can tell you that the curves are usually pretty symmetrical. There's no way the median GPA is 178.

I saw some spreads from a few years ago, and there were almost twice as many A's as C's. But perhaps things have changed.


From what I saw, means and medians are generally pretty close. The school has also apparently cracked down somewhat on curve enforcement in the last couple years.

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby JollyGreenGiant » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
A-Cow-Demia wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Having seen full grade spreads for several classes, I can tell you that the curves are usually pretty symmetrical. There's no way the median GPA is 178.

I saw some spreads from a few years ago, and there were almost twice as many A's as C's. But perhaps things have changed.


From what I saw, means and medians are generally pretty close. The school has also apparently cracked down somewhat on curve enforcement in the last couple years.

This. Much more mean symmetry lately or so I've heard from a few people who would know.




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