180.75 @ Chicago Law

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180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:57 am

Does this mean Law Rev, K & E Scholar?

I want to stay in Chicago. Do I need to bid on every Chicago firm at OCI to ensure this? Or can I just make sure to get interview slots in the firms I really want? (I'd prefer not to have a very busy OCI interview / callback schedule).

Also, Wachtell, Cravath, W&C chances? My undergrad is a very low ranked school and re-reading my undergrad honors thesis makes me cringe...


Thanks for the input :)

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DCDuck
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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby DCDuck » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:00 pm

"(I'd prefer not to have a very busy OCI interview / callback schedule)."

Wrong attitude. Maximize chances by applying widely.

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Haymarket
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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Haymarket » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:09 pm

OP, do you have ties to Chicago in any way? Or even to the Midwest? This might have some influence on your bid list. Since we have so many bids, it usually makes sense (unless you're very confident) to from some at your home regional ties.

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:14 pm

OP here.

I do not have anything Chicago/midwest on my resume. But both of my parents are from Chicago, so growing up I spent significant time in the city.

(My resume is 95% Washington, DC. )

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Does this mean Law Rev, K & E Scholar?

I want to stay in Chicago. Do I need to bid on every Chicago firm at OCI to ensure this? Or can I just make sure to get interview slots in the firms I really want? (I'd prefer not to have a very busy OCI interview / callback schedule).

Also, Wachtell, Cravath, W&C chances? My undergrad is a very low ranked school and re-reading my undergrad honors thesis makes me cringe...


Thanks for the input :)


Edit: Overestimated your rank based on that weird grading system you all have. No reason not to go full out at OCI.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here.

I do not have anything Chicago/midwest on my resume. But both of my parents are from Chicago, so growing up I spent significant time in the city.

(My resume is 95% Washington, DC. )

I think you're going to be in a really good position to stay in Chicago, especially if you don't have just one or two Chicago firms that you HAVE to have. I'm assuming your summer job is in DC this summer, yeah?

But I think with LR and (possibly) K&E you'll have a good number of choices, and you definitely won't get shut out of Chicago (assuming you aren't a total spaz in interviews.)

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:23 pm

So, I'll tell you what I know about K&E Scholars as a fellow 1L.

According to the 2Ls and 3Ls (I guess now 3Ls and grads), K&E cutoff for 1Ls was about 180.5 in 2010. Last year, for 1Ls it appears to have been higher (a little under 181 according to my info), because the now-3L class was a legion of warlocks when it came to grades at the top end. What that means for this year is anyone's guess. LR also apparently had a cutoff was above what was typical, although with a 180.75 I'm like 99% certain you'd grade-on any year. Of course, not even LR/K&E scholars are told the exact cutoffs.

K&E for 1Ls was announced Sunday July 18 in 2010, and Friday July 15 in 2011. (and by announced, I mean notified, since I'm pretty sure it's not publicly announced). So I guess stay near your email for the next 1-2 weeks.

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby rayiner » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:30 pm

[You've obviously done very well]. That being said, there's still no reason not to gun OCI. You're in the ballpark for WLRK, Munger, Susman, Keker, etc, but nobody is a lock for those firms. They'll happily take someone with lower grades than you that gave a better interview. You're certainly going to get one of K&E/Sidley/Mayer, but you're in a position to do much better.
Last edited by rayiner on Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Does this mean Law Rev, K & E Scholar?

I want to stay in Chicago. Do I need to bid on every Chicago firm at OCI to ensure this? Or can I just make sure to get interview slots in the firms I really want? (I'd prefer not to have a very busy OCI interview / callback schedule).

Also, Wachtell, Cravath, W&C chances? My undergrad is a very low ranked school and re-reading my undergrad honors thesis makes me cringe...


Thanks for the input :)

Two years ago the L Rev cutoff was about 180 and the K&E cutoff was about 180.5. But last year the L Rev cutoff was 180.5. I think last year was an anomaly, but yeah, you have a very good shot at L Rev.

As for Chicago firms, many people bid on them—especially on the largest firms like Kirkland, Sidley, and Mayer. Make sure you rank them in your top 5-10 (though you can add them later if you don't get an interview). As long as you're an average interviewer, you'll probably get offers from at least two of these firms. Your undergrad won't hurt.

As for the other firms, I thought you said you wanted to stay in Chicago? You certainly have the grades for Cravath, but I'm not sure why you'd want to work there if you prefer Chicago. Kirkland and Sidley provide similar opportunities and aren't as miserable. W&C and WLRK are more difficult to predict. They're worth a shot, but you need to have great interviews. It will help if you're a female. And if you're willing to try elite firms outside Chicago, consider Keker, MTO, and Susman. All are great firms.

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Haymarket » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:34 pm

rayiner wrote:You're definitely top 5% and probably top 3%.

Based on history (e.g. last year's supposed LR cut offs), I don't think this is necessarily true. People last year estimated the 10% cut off to be 180.5, so don't take this to be certain.

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:37 pm

OP sounds like he/she won't have any issue getting Chicago. Unless they're socially retarded, they should get at least one offer from one of the big class firms - K&E, Sidley, Jenner, Katten, MayerBrown, etc.

My grades are a bit lower than OP's - 179.3ish (still waiting on elective grade, but shouldn't drop below 179 unless I bomb it). Is that high enough to be a lock on Chicago or do I need to bid NYC to guarantee a job (and I have absolutely no desire to live in NYC)?

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rayiner
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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby rayiner » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:38 pm

Haymarket wrote:
rayiner wrote:You're definitely top 5% and probably top 3%.

Based on history (e.g. last year's supposed LR cut offs), I don't think this is necessarily true. People last year estimated the 10% cut off to be 180.5, so don't take this to be certain.


Don't tell me U Chicago has suffered grade inflation too!

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:38 pm

Let me also add: you don't need to place the super selective firms in your top 5 or even 10. Many people recognize that firms like Wachtell, Munger, and W&C are selective and they don't bid on them.

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Haymarket
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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Haymarket » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:40 pm

rayiner wrote:
Haymarket wrote:
rayiner wrote:You're definitely top 5% and probably top 3%.

Based on history (e.g. last year's supposed LR cut offs), I don't think this is necessarily true. People last year estimated the 10% cut off to be 180.5, so don't take this to be certain.


Don't tell me U Chicago has suffered grade inflation too!

Not quite. Just an unusual grouping of high achievers where all the highest grades were concentrated more than usual. It brought up the 10% cut off. So, in all likelihood it will drop some, but it's not exactly guaranteed.

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP sounds like he/she won't have any issue getting Chicago. Unless they're socially retarded, they should get at least one offer from one of the big class firms - K&E, Sidley, Jenner, Katten, MayerBrown, etc.

My grades are a bit lower than OP's - 179.3ish (still waiting on elective grade, but shouldn't drop below 179 unless I bomb it). Is that high enough to be a lock on Chicago or do I need to bid NYC to guarantee a job (and I have absolutely no desire to live in NYC)?

You're probably top 20 percent, so you have a very good shot at all the big Chicago firms. Just don't suck at interviewing.

I recommend picking a second city. Here's why: you won't be able to use your 50 bids solely on Chicago firms. I think everyone should have a second market, unless they absolutely can't work elsewhere. I don't blame you for not wanting to live in NY, but what about DC, SF, or LA?

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Haymarket » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP sounds like he/she won't have any issue getting Chicago. Unless they're socially retarded, they should get at least one offer from one of the big class firms - K&E, Sidley, Jenner, Katten, MayerBrown, etc.

My grades are a bit lower than OP's - 179.3ish (still waiting on elective grade, but shouldn't drop below 179 unless I bomb it). Is that high enough to be a lock on Chicago or do I need to bid NYC to guarantee a job (and I have absolutely no desire to live in NYC)?


Any ties to Chicago? Either before law school or for summer work? And I mean, there are only so many Chicago firms, you'll need to pick at least one other market. You might think about starting your own thread.

Edit: Basically scooped by the post before me.

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:10 pm

I thought I just posted this...

There's a rumor that the law review is adding a few more people this year. This should lower the GPA cutoff, though I doubt it will have much effect.

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Bildungsroman » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I thought I just posted this...

There's a rumor that the law review is adding a few more people this year. This should lower the GPA cutoff, though I doubt it will have much effect.

What's the source on this rumor?

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Haymarket
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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Haymarket » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:13 pm

I saw the post. Possibly a mod deletion (though I'm not sure why). I don't know who would put much stock into triple hearsay from an anon poster.

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:21 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I thought I just posted this...

There's a rumor that the law review is adding a few more people this year. This should lower the GPA cutoff, though I doubt it will have much effect.

What's the source on this rumor?

Can't say much. The administration has been pushing it. I know the board was considering a membership increase, but I don't know what they decided.

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Bildungsroman » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I thought I just posted this...

There's a rumor that the law review is adding a few more people this year. This should lower the GPA cutoff, though I doubt it will have much effect.

What's the source on this rumor?

Can't say much. The administration has been pushing it. I know the board was considering a membership increase, but I don't know what they decided.

If the administration has been pushing it then I'm immediately opposed.

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Does this mean Law Rev, K & E Scholar?

I want to stay in Chicago. Do I need to bid on every Chicago firm at OCI to ensure this? Or can I just make sure to get interview slots in the firms I really want? (I'd prefer not to have a very busy OCI interview / callback schedule).

Also, Wachtell, Cravath, W&C chances? My undergrad is a very low ranked school and re-reading my undergrad honors thesis makes me cringe...


Thanks for the input :)

Two years ago the L Rev cutoff was about 180 and the K&E cutoff was about 180.5. But last year the L Rev cutoff was 180.5. I think last year was an anomaly, but yeah, you have a very good shot at L Rev.

As for Chicago firms, many people bid on them—especially on the largest firms like Kirkland, Sidley, and Mayer. Make sure you rank them in your top 5-10 (though you can add them later if you don't get an interview). As long as you're an average interviewer, you'll probably get offers from at least two of these firms. Your undergrad won't hurt.

As for the other firms, I thought you said you wanted to stay in Chicago? You certainly have the grades for Cravath, but I'm not sure why you'd want to work there if you prefer Chicago. Kirkland and Sidley provide similar opportunities and aren't as miserable. W&C and WLRK are more difficult to predict. They're worth a shot, but you need to have great interviews. It will help if you're a female. And if you're willing to try elite firms outside Chicago, consider Keker, MTO, and Susman. All are great firms.


OP here. Thanks for the information/advice. Chicago is still a top priority. but now looking at the Vault rankings and seeing that I have a good chance at some of the top NYC firms, I'm developing an interest in prestige whoring. I'll look at those firms you suggested, thanks.

And a relief on the undergrad. Do you think I should just take my honors thesis off my resume? I'd rather they not try and read it (I got an A on it but it is crap compared to the student I have become). Although if they search my name online they will easily find it.

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Emma. » Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:17 pm

I don't think LRev ended up deciding to take on any extra staffers.

OP, with an 180.75 you are certainly in the top 10%, but K&E is up in the air. Barring total interview ineptitude you should do incredibly well at OCI, but as other posters said I would certainly do as many screeners as possible. You might be surprised by the firms you end up liking, and this is too important a decision to only interview at a few places just because you want to spend a little less time kicking around at Booth this fall.

With an 180.75 you'll have a strong shot at any firm (including WLRK, though If you are straight through from undergrad, a high GPA won't necessarily get you Wachtell) and should be a shoe-in for Kirkland and Sidley in Chicago. I'd imagine your success with these places is going to depend largely on how well you interview, whether you are generally personable, and whether you have a good "back story."

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby Haymarket » Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
OP here. Thanks for the information/advice. Chicago is still a top priority. but now looking at the Vault rankings and seeing that I have a good chance at some of the top NYC firms, I'm developing an interest in prestige whoring. I'll look at those firms you suggested, thanks.

And a relief on the undergrad. Do you think I should just take my honors thesis off my resume? I'd rather they not try and read it (I got an A on it but it is crap compared to the student I have become). Although if they search my name online they will easily find it.


Oh my.

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Re: 180.75 @ Chicago Law

Postby rayiner » Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:29 pm

Thanks for the information/advice. Chicago is still a top priority. but now looking at the Vault rankings and seeing that I have a good chance at some of the top NYC firms, I'm developing an interest in prestige whoring. I'll look at those firms you suggested, thanks.


If you like Chicago, there is very little reason to take a non-WLRK NYC V5 over K&E/Sidley. For top 10%+LR at U Chicago, prestige-whoring means chasing firms you can't get from top quarter at the other T14 (unlike Cravath). For corporate that means WLRK. For litigation that means places like Munger, etc.




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