clerking is bullshit

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Anonymous User
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Re: clerking is bullshit

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:53 am

I don't know how you can hate clerking either. Every clerk I know loved it. I'm still a student, but I would die to have your job--not necessarily even because of the prestige.

I interned for a judge, and it was awesome taste of the clerkship experience. Worked in CD Cal, and it was a very busy chambers. Not rocket docket, but pretty fast. I've never done so much legal research and writing in my life. I got to work on all types of motions and legal topics. I wouldn't have traded any internship for it. And if clerking is the same but with greater breadth and depth, then I'd definitely do it.

Cherish what you have. You're in a great position, and there are literally thousands of people who would have loved to work in your job and location.

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Re: clerking is bullshit

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:15 am

Anonymous User wrote:I don't know how you can hate clerking either. Every clerk I know loved it. I'm still a student, but I would die to have your job--not necessarily even because of the prestige.

I interned for a judge, and it was awesome taste of the clerkship experience. Worked in CD Cal, and it was a very busy chambers. Not rocket docket, but pretty fast. I've never done so much legal research and writing in my life. I got to work on all types of motions and legal topics. I wouldn't have traded any internship for it. And if clerking is the same but with greater breadth and depth, then I'd definitely do it.

Cherish what you have. You're in a great position, and there are literally thousands of people who would have loved to work in your job and location.


All is fine above. And an internship is a good deal. You're in, you're out, 12 weeks, you get how it's done. But to do this for a whole year is a waste of time for me.

The learning curve tops out at 12 weeks. If you're awake and listening, you understand how the game is played very quickly, and you don't get much more value out of the remainder of your time. There is very little interaction with people. The pay is shit. It's incredibly overrated. And working for a judge doesn't give you the special magic potion most people seem to think it does. Briefs are filed. Decisions are made based on what is probably the right way to go forward. Nothing mystical is going on. The value proposition is a dud.

Most people who aggrandize clerkships are former clerks. This is a natural response to having made a significant life investment.

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kalvano
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Re: clerking is bullshit

Postby kalvano » Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:19 am

You seem to bitch about the lower paycheck a lot. It's not like they hide salary info. If you're so torn up about that, why bother doing it?

JusticeJackson
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Re: clerking is bullshit

Postby JusticeJackson » Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:32 am

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Last edited by JusticeJackson on Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lawquacious
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Re: clerking is bullshit

Postby Lawquacious » Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:46 am

ilovesf wrote:
wiseowl wrote:goodness. GTL Rev's corpse isn't even cold yet and this hits the board?

Did something happen to him?



Lol. He got outed dude. COA judge and everything. Check autoadmit. I didn't care enough to even remember the judge he works for, but that (apparently) is totally what happened. fuck this site. so easy to get outed

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wiseowl
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Re: clerking is bullshit

Postby wiseowl » Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:51 am

Lawquacious wrote:
ilovesf wrote:
wiseowl wrote:goodness. GTL Rev's corpse isn't even cold yet and this hits the board?

Did something happen to him?



Lol. He got outed dude. COA judge and everything. Check autoadmit. I didn't care enough to even remember the judge he works for, but that (apparently) is totally what happened. fuck this site. so easy to get outed


Posting easily verifiable info on here that can be checked on other open sites like LinkedIn makes it real easy. He's not an innocent victim. It's kind of a cautionary tale for everyone.

That said, he never said anything at all inflammatory, and not sure what the big deal was.

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Julio_El_Chavo
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Re: clerking is bullshit

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:04 am

wiseowl wrote:That said, he never said anything at all inflammatory, and not sure what the big deal was.


Haven't you heard? Posting habitually on an Internet forum makes you (and I) and others who do it LOSERS.

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bk1
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Re: clerking is bullshit

Postby bk1 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:05 am

Let's keep this thread on topic (asking OP questions and discussing the merits of clerking).

Anonymous User
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Re: clerking is bullshit

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:13 am

Isn't the OP about to be outed...

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Lawquacious
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Re: clerking is bullshit

Postby Lawquacious » Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:39 am

bk1 wrote:Let's keep this thread on topic (asking OP questions and discussing the merits of clerking).



On topic: clerking is, in fact, bullshit (or bullpucky as the case may be).

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Re: clerking is bullshit

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:50 am

Clerking for the "learning experience" or the pay - OK, perhaps not great.

Clerking for additional opportunities down the line - Certainly. If you want to go BIGFED, and especially if you want to go into a U.S. Attorney's Office, clerking for a district judge is a big plus these days. And if you want to go academia, clerking is a near prerequisite.

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Re: clerking is bullshit

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:04 am

[quote="Anonymous User"]

Clerking for the "learning experience" or the pay - OK, perhaps not great.

Clerking for additional opportunities down the line - Certainly. If you want to go BIGFED, and especially if you want to go into a U.S. Attorney's Office, clerking for a district judge is a big plus these days. And if you want to go academia, clerking is a near prerequisite.

[/quote]

Yes. This is commonly cited. I think a very small minority of districts clerks ever go on to academia. And if you rack up law firm time post clerkship, several academic positions are susequently out of bounds.

AUSA offices in some jurisidictions prefer clerks? While I too see the correlation, there are more critical hiring factors - 1. Big law experience / DA; 2. Public sector interest manifestations

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dresden doll
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Re: clerking is bullshit

Postby dresden doll » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:09 am

wiseowl wrote:That said, he never said anything at all inflammatory, and not sure what the big deal was.


+1. I don't understand the big deal either.

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sundance95
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Re: clerking is bullshit

Postby sundance95 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:10 am

op sounds like he hates law (or at least lit) in general

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prezidentv8
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Re: clerking is bullshit

Postby prezidentv8 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:10 pm

sundance95 wrote:op sounds like he hates law (or at least lit) in general


Me too, but I'd take that jerb in half a second.

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Re: clerking is bullshit

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:37 pm

I was on the fence on whether to clerk or not. This thread makes me feel good about not applying for Clerkships this summer, phew!

Citizen Genet
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Re: clerking is bullshit

Postby Citizen Genet » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:01 pm

ITT: A rising 3L who desperately wants to clerk in ND/CDCal tries to convince everyone it's not that cool.

(I kid. It's fine to dislike the work; I am sure a lot of it comes down to the person and the judge so it's good to hear a different perspective.)

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Re: clerking is bullshit

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:04 pm

OP again. I don't hate "law." I actually miss working with other people, going out on firm events, working in teams, working with a couple partners back at the firm, etc. Here, it's just me and the Judge and my co-clerk(s). And when it comes down to it, it's really me and the Judge. I just think that I kind of fell for the classic pitch for clerking, and I think more people should know it isn't all it's made to be.

It's like going to this really well-reviewed restaurant in Tibet which reportedly gives you lifetime dividends. So you spend a year driving/flying/swimming/hiking/climbing to and back from this mystical place to get this amazing food. Only when you get there, you could've had the same food at Taco Bell (externship) which wouldn't have you go all the way to Tibet.

Tibet sells the same shit they sell at Taco Bell, is my point.

Couple points: most Judges I know in CD/ND Cal aren't very good mentors. Some Judges are just terrible bosses. Look, you're essentially signing away a year of your life to a sole proprietorship. And you have no idea what it's like to work with your singular boss. They can be a good boss. They can be a bad boss. They have a very busy life, and you're supposed to make it more manageable. Work styles may differ. Either way, you're stuck with an unknown entity. Nobody tells students that when they go around applying to 100 judges. It's so hit or miss.

Even worse, the data on what it's like to actually work for one of these usually egomaniacal unfire-able clowns is nearly non-existent, for good reason. Nobody will be dumb enough to mention their Judge by name and shit on them. Even if they are being abused at work. Nobody smart enough to get a clerkship is dumb enough to do that. So it's a treacherous terrain without much - if any - informaton about the work styles of particular judges.

The best you can do is try to detect "luke warm" reviews from former clerks. And never apply to those Judges - ever.

Anonymous User
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Re: clerking is bullshit

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:17 pm

This is also the same problem with working at satellite offices of big law firms or in niche practice groups.

Your job satisfaction is tied to a small number of partners. If they are amazing colleagues/mentors, you're one lucky shit. But if they're representative of the average big law partner, you have no ability to look for the outlier partners who are amazing mentors and actually invest in your development.

That's why people shouldn't seek out jobs in satellite offices or niche groups early on. Go to a place with a dozen options (partners), and try out working for different partners and pick your favorites.

Coming back to clerking, again - you can tell that my experience would've been dramatically different for a Judge who cared deeply about clerks and the teaching function.




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