oci is bleak but are all my job prospects this bleak?

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so ambivalent
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oci is bleak but are all my job prospects this bleak?

Postby so ambivalent » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:27 am

so i posted earlier this year about my abysmal 1st semester gpa (2.9) at a t15. the good news is i brough it up (not much, just 3.133). i'm not sure what the median is at my school. but i know top 20% is around 3.5 so top 30 is 3.0. i think this probs puts me around median but our cso refuses to divulge median.
oci lists just came out and the requirements/preferred are rough. usually around 30% plus. i'll bid but won't get my hopes up.
but what i really wanna know is how bleak non-oci or pi prospects are for people in my position?
i have 2+ years of law-related consulting work, 4.0 gpa at undergrad ivy (like it even matters) and a summer internship in dc with a smaller doj body. i'll be interning over the fall semester with the usao for my law school city and have a bunch of great recs from profs and the former USAO, JAG, DA's I work with now.
i have a SO so i can't uproot him to the middle of nowhere but he and in would be willing to relocate to any reasonbly sized city that isn't car dependent (like NOT houston, vegas or phoenix but la is fine).

attractive_NUisance
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Re: oci is bleak but are all my job prospects this bleak?

Postby attractive_NUisance » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:32 am

I was with you up until LA is not car dependent.

What is a T15? Texas?

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rayiner
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Re: oci is bleak but are all my job prospects this bleak?

Postby rayiner » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:41 am

It's easier to just disclose the school. Medianish at Texas is quite a bit different than medianish at say Northwestern.

I'm going to guess UCLA since they're the only "T15" so cagey about their curve. Also, Texas's curve is too inflated for 3.5 to be top 20%. I think UCLA's median is somewhere in the ~3.15-3.25 range, so you're probably median-ish or just below.

You've probably got a poor chance at OCI, but it's not impossible. I'd start heavily mailing medium-sized firms in the LA area. Also consider smaller California cities and mid-sized/small firms there. Your softs are really strong. In your shoes I'd target NYC firms at OCI and then do a mailing campaign there. NYC firms love consulting experience and Ivies.

Where do you have ties to?
Last edited by rayiner on Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:45 am, edited 2 times in total.

nonprofit-prophet
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Re: oci is bleak but are all my job prospects this bleak?

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:43 am

rayiner wrote:It's easier to just disclose the school. Medianish at Texas is quite a bit different than medianish at say Northwestern.

I'm going to guess UCLA since they're the only "T15" so cagey about their curve. Also, Texas's curve is too inflated for 3.5 to be top 20%. I think UCLA's median is somewhere in the ~3.15-3.25 range, so you're probably median-ish or just below.

You've probably got a poor chance at OCI, but it's not impossible. I'd start heavily mailing medium-sized firms in the LA area. Also consider smaller California cities and mid-sized/small firms there. Your softs are really strong. In your shoes I'd target NYC firms at OCI and then do a mailing campaign there.


yea Texas' median is about 3.35 and top 25% is about a 3.62

so ambivalent
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Re: oci is bleak but are all my job prospects this bleak?

Postby so ambivalent » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:44 pm

rayiner wrote:It's easier to just disclose the school. Medianish at Texas is quite a bit different than medianish at say Northwestern.

I'm going to guess UCLA
Where do you have ties to?


haha. not ucla. i'm reluectant to disclose because i am ashamed of my gpa and know there are classmates on this. :|
i'll just say it's in the south. i have no real ties anywhere cuz i moved around alot. have worked in nyc and dc. family in la and dc. also my SO is southern so we'd stay there (prob not Miss or 'bama tho).

Anonymous User
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Re: oci is bleak but are all my job prospects this bleak?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:51 pm

so ambivalent wrote:
rayiner wrote:It's easier to just disclose the school. Medianish at Texas is quite a bit different than medianish at say Northwestern.

I'm going to guess UCLA
Where do you have ties to?


haha. not ucla. i'm reluectant to disclose because i am ashamed of my gpa and know there are classmates on this. :|
i'll just say it's in the south. i have no real ties anywhere cuz i moved around alot. have worked in nyc and dc. family in la and dc. also my SO is southern so we'd stay there (prob not Miss or 'bama tho).


Pretty sure what school you mean from the top 20% and timing of bid releases (hi classmate!) and from what I can figure you are under median by a little bit. Best guesses my friends and I had (+ wikipedia, which is never wrong) it's about a 3.17/3.19. Good job on bringing it up though! The bonus of not disclosing rank is that it makes it harder for employers to shut you out.

I'd bid at OCI (obviously) and I'd look for less selective NYC firms. Maybe try DC if you have extra bids, but from all I've heard it's pretty deadly even for people above median. Most of the southern markets want ties, but if you can sell your SO's ties as your own that could work. I would shoot for smaller markets. You aren't going to get the town our school is in.

Pick a city you want to work in and start mass mailing. Do you have any connections with lawyers in these towns? Start networking like crazy.

I want to do PI primarily, and it looks pretty rough. Not for 2L summer, but for getting a job after. Is there a chance you could do your fall externship at a place that will actually hire entry-level attorneys? Check out the Equal Justice Fair, and mail PI places in your target city. You aren't screwed, but you are going to have to hustle.

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rayiner
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Re: oci is bleak but are all my job prospects this bleak?

Postby rayiner » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:59 pm

See, that's much more useful. Vandy's curve looks like a B+/B curve, tilted slightly towards B+. So I'd guess a median ~3.2. So you're likely a bit below median, but not dramatically so. Nothing to be ashamed of, certainly.

In your shoes, I'd bid NYC at OCI. Median-ish at Vandy with great WE + Ivy UG should have a shot at NYC vault firms outside the V25. Focus on firms in the V25-75 range with the biggest class sizes. Mail the rest.

dixon02
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Re: oci is bleak but are all my job prospects this bleak?

Postby dixon02 » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:04 pm

rayiner wrote:See, that's much more useful. Vandy's curve looks like a B+/B curve, tilted slightly towards B+. So I'd guess a median ~3.2. So you're likely a bit below median, but not dramatically so. Nothing to be ashamed of, certainly.

In your shoes, I'd bid NYC at OCI. Median-ish at Vandy with great WE + Ivy UG should have a shot at NYC vault firms outside the V25. Focus on firms in the V25-75 range with the biggest class sizes. Mail the rest.


Lol at people trying to keep the school disclosed.

so ambivalent
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Re: oci is bleak but are all my job prospects this bleak?

Postby so ambivalent » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
so ambivalent wrote:
rayiner wrote:You aren't going to get the town our school is in.

Pick a city you want to work in and start mass mailing. Do you have any connections with lawyers in these towns? Start networking like crazy.

I want to do PI primarily, and it looks pretty rough. Not for 2L summer, but for getting a job after. Is there a chance you could do your fall externship at a place that will actually hire entry-level attorneys? Check out the Equal Justice Fair, and mail PI places in your target city. You aren't screwed, but you are going to have to hustle.


you think i wouldn't get PI in the town? or a super small firm?
no idea what places actually hire entry level (not DOJ obvi, and DA are hit or miss, maybe agencies, state AG, or public defenders?). i'm considering JAG pretty seriously, but i worry that it too is increasingly competitive.

Anonymous User
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Re: oci is bleak but are all my job prospects this bleak?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:37 pm

so ambivalent wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:You aren't going to get the town our school is in.

Pick a city you want to work in and start mass mailing. Do you have any connections with lawyers in these towns? Start networking like crazy.

I want to do PI primarily, and it looks pretty rough. Not for 2L summer, but for getting a job after. Is there a chance you could do your fall externship at a place that will actually hire entry-level attorneys? Check out the Equal Justice Fair, and mail PI places in your target city. You aren't screwed, but you are going to have to hustle.


you think i wouldn't get PI in the town? or a super small firm?
no idea what places actually hire entry level (not DOJ obvi, and DA are hit or miss, maybe agencies, state AG, or public defenders?). i'm considering JAG pretty seriously, but i worry that it too is increasingly competitive.


I guess you've been outed at Vandy, so I'm just going to say it. I mean it's possible to get stuff in Nashville, but you mentioned you were externing at the USAO? I may be mistaken but they do not hire entry level attorneys. If it's possible DA/AG/PD/etc might be better choices. I'd ask your CSO. They might have a better idea. JAG would be sweet but I have no idea what the qualifications are.

From everything I've heard (see e.g., rad lulz) Nashville is ridiculously hard to get. I'm not sure how small firms factor in (I'm mostly looking elsewhere).




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