t14 to teacher/firefighter/cop

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t14 to teacher/firefighter/cop

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:58 pm

At a t-14 and did alright. not very into big law, 1L was enough competing with all those super smart kids for me, I don't want to do that for 80hrs a week. I'm pretty public interest oriented, if I'm a lawyer PI work is what I plan to do. At my internship I started hearing rumblings about people leaving the DA's to become police because of better pay and benefits. I enjoyed studying law and have enjoyed my internship so far. I feel like I'm actually getting a feel for what it would be like to be a lawyer, which is great! But part of me feels like if I'm going to have to leave it to become a cop etc.. maybe I should just save myself the next two years?

Has anyone on these boards gone to law school and then decided to be a teacher/firefighter/cop? I ask about these professions because I'm wondering if they qualify for IBR and quite honestly are three that I've always thought about doing. AND I'd like to have a job where I help people etc..

I'd also like it if people from these professions could speak as to why they left them to go to law school.

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Re: t14 to teacher/firefighter/cop

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:01 am

Anonymous User wrote:At a t-14 and did alright. not very into big law, 1L was enough competing with all those super smart kids for me, I don't want to do that for 80hrs a week. I'm pretty public interest oriented, if I'm a lawyer PI work is what I plan to do. At my internship I started hearing rumblings about people leaving the DA's to become police because of better pay and benefits. I enjoyed studying law and have enjoyed my internship so far. I feel like I'm actually getting a feel for what it would be like to be a lawyer, which is great! But part of me feels like if I'm going to have to leave it to become a cop etc.. maybe I should just save myself the next two years?

Has anyone on these boards gone to law school and then decided to be a teacher/firefighter/cop? I ask about these professions because I'm wondering if they qualify for IBR and quite honestly are three that I've always thought about doing. AND I'd like to have a job where I help people etc..

I'd also like it if people from these professions could speak as to why they left them to go to law school.


I could give you my thoughts on why I left teaching to go to law school.

r6_philly
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Re: t14 to teacher/firefighter/cop

Postby r6_philly » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:02 am

Being a lawyer isn't for everyone. So it's possible that you might find another profession more rewarding, especially since many of us don't measure personal rewards in terms of dollars. However, did you explore all options in the legal field? There are a lot of non-traditional legal practices all over, so I don't know if you need to completely abandon the law path unless you absolutely wants nothing to do with it. Your T14 credential should open some doors, so maximize your exposure and see if you can find something else you like to do in law.

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Re: t14 to teacher/firefighter/cop

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:At a t-14 and did alright. not very into big law, 1L was enough competing with all those super smart kids for me, I don't want to do that for 80hrs a week. I'm pretty public interest oriented, if I'm a lawyer PI work is what I plan to do. At my internship I started hearing rumblings about people leaving the DA's to become police because of better pay and benefits. I enjoyed studying law and have enjoyed my internship so far. I feel like I'm actually getting a feel for what it would be like to be a lawyer, which is great! But part of me feels like if I'm going to have to leave it to become a cop etc.. maybe I should just save myself the next two years?

Has anyone on these boards gone to law school and then decided to be a teacher/firefighter/cop? I ask about these professions because I'm wondering if they qualify for IBR and quite honestly are three that I've always thought about doing. AND I'd like to have a job where I help people etc..

I'd also like it if people from these professions could speak as to why they left them to go to law school.


I could give you my thoughts on why I left teaching to go to law school.


I'd like to hear it!

splitmuch
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Re: t14 to teacher/firefighter/cop

Postby splitmuch » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:15 am

Anonymous User wrote:At a t-14 and did alright. not very into big law, 1L was enough competing with all those super smart kids for me, I don't want to do that for 80hrs a week. I'm pretty public interest oriented, if I'm a lawyer PI work is what I plan to do. At my internship I started hearing rumblings about people leaving the DA's to become police because of better pay and benefits. I enjoyed studying law and have enjoyed my internship so far. I feel like I'm actually getting a feel for what it would be like to be a lawyer, which is great! But part of me feels like if I'm going to have to leave it to become a cop etc.. maybe I should just save myself the next two years?

Has anyone on these boards gone to law school and then decided to be a teacher/firefighter/cop? I ask about these professions because I'm wondering if they qualify for IBR and quite honestly are three that I've always thought about doing. AND I'd like to have a job where I help people etc..

I'd also like it if people from these professions could speak as to why they left them to go to law school.


Of those I think a law degree could have some utility in advancing a law enforcement career.

dudders
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Re: t14 to teacher/firefighter/cop

Postby dudders » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:20 am

Keep in mind that all of those positions require some serious additional training.

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Re: t14 to teacher/firefighter/cop

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:24 am

r6_philly wrote:Being a lawyer isn't for everyone. So it's possible that you might find another profession more rewarding, especially since many of us don't measure personal rewards in terms of dollars. However, did you explore all options in the legal field? There are a lot of non-traditional legal practices all over, so I don't know if you need to completely abandon the law path unless you absolutely wants nothing to do with it. Your T14 credential should open some doors, so maximize your exposure and see if you can find something else you like to do in law.


Only a 1L, so I haven't explored all options. I'm pretty sure I'm on the hook to my school for next semester anyways so I'm going to stick it out for that and see if some of the clinics get me more excited. I actually really enjoy my internship and think what my supervisor does is really cool, I love the court house and all the small interactions etc.. but legal research and writing still drives me kinda crazy. Maybe it gets easier once you do it a lot more, but I find what should probably be easy tasks to be pretty hard. No illusions about striking it rich but also wish the non-biglaw path gave me a job two years before I graduated haha.

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Re: t14 to teacher/firefighter/cop

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:26 am

dudders wrote:Keep in mind that all of those positions require some serious additional training.


thats another reason why I'm thinking about throwing in the law school towel now, I don't want to realize that I hate being a lawyer by the time I'm too old to do other jobs I'm interested in.

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Re: t14 to teacher/firefighter/cop

Postby r6_philly » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Only a 1L, so I haven't explored all options. I'm pretty sure I'm on the hook to my school for next semester anyways so I'm going to stick it out for that and see if some of the clinics get me more excited. I actually really enjoy my internship and think what my supervisor does is really cool, I love the court house and all the small interactions etc.. but legal research and writing still drives me kinda crazy. Maybe it gets easier once you do it a lot more, but I find what should probably be easy tasks to be pretty hard. No illusions about striking it rich but also wish the non-biglaw path gave me a job two years before I graduated haha.


I think legal research and writing gets easier after enough repetitions. It isn't a natural pursuit, but a very learnable one. Especially out in practice. I think many/most issues have been researched to death, so a good knowledge base helps quite a bit. I see the same cut and paste opinion paragraphs in opinions all the time, they must reuse a lot of work. If you like the courthouse, maybe try to see if you can get a job as a career clerk. You get to make decent 6 figures.

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Re: t14 to teacher/firefighter/cop

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:37 am

I've definitely given that some thought. A god friend of mine has an uncle that does that and loves it. Yeah I think the thing with legal writing so far is that it does feel extremely cut and paste. I'm not used to that at all and I end up wasting a lot of time on research etc.. For one assignment I was given a template and could have pretty much just changed the names and been good. But that just doesn't feel right so I end up spending hours trying to find some different angle that just isn't there. I know that the key is finding that happy medium between a 5 minute cut and paste and a good hour of legal writing but I just haven't found it yet.

r6_philly
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Re: t14 to teacher/firefighter/cop

Postby r6_philly » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:44 am

Haha that happy medium is illusive because you have to decide when to spend more and when to spend less. That all comes from experience so you know how to manage your time and resources so you can do the most in aggregate. Don't worry, that will come with time. Just focus on what kind of lifestyle/workstyle you want to have, based on what you learned first hand. Most of us try a few jobs before finding something we can tolerate, let alone like/want. Don't give up so easily. You obviously like some part of it, so find something that will allow you to focus on what you like.

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Re: t14 to teacher/firefighter/cop

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:50 am

Anonymous User wrote:At a t-14 and did alright. not very into big law, 1L was enough competing with all those super smart kids for me, I don't want to do that for 80hrs a week. I'm pretty public interest oriented, if I'm a lawyer PI work is what I plan to do. At my internship I started hearing rumblings about people leaving the DA's to become police because of better pay and benefits. I enjoyed studying law and have enjoyed my internship so far. I feel like I'm actually getting a feel for what it would be like to be a lawyer, which is great! But part of me feels like if I'm going to have to leave it to become a cop etc.. maybe I should just save myself the next two years?

Has anyone on these boards gone to law school and then decided to be a teacher/firefighter/cop? I ask about these professions because I'm wondering if they qualify for IBR and quite honestly are three that I've always thought about doing. AND I'd like to have a job where I help people etc..

I'd also like it if people from these professions could speak as to why they left them to go to law school.


I could give you many reasons why I left the fire service... tl;dr version - you don't want to be 40 yo, let alone 50 yo, pulling hose off the back of an engine. I don't know a single retired firefighter whose body wasn't aged past their actual age.

Oh, it's also nice knowing that I have an extraordinarily low chance of ending up in the hospital with burns or other serious injuries after my work day.

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Re: t14 to teacher/firefighter/cop

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:19 am

I'd like to hear the longer version if you have the time. Also how difficult is it to get a job in the fire service now? I sort of wrote that off due to hiring freezes where I live. The little research I've done on it makes it seem like unless your dad and grandpa were firefighters its super tough to get a job. Mostly what I know is that my dad has a bunch of buddies who were firefighters, they all seemed to love the work and are all now retired and doing very well.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: t14 to teacher/firefighter/cop

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:01 am

Honestly, if you can get into a decent police department and are cut out for the work it's a pretty sweet option. You'd get public service loan forgiveness after ten years and, in the NYPD for instance, retirement with a half-salary pension after 20. If you make Lieutenant that means you can retire at 45-50 and make $50-55k a year for the rest of your life, plus have a whole second career... go open a solo shop at that point and have the $50k cushion to support you through the lean years. Sounds like a pretty decent career to me, especially considering how few law jobs there are out there.

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Re: t14 to teacher/firefighter/cop

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:07 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I could give you my thoughts on why I left teaching to go to law school.


I'd like to hear it!


I would also like to hear it.

I thought I hated the law as a 1L, but that I should at least try an internship this summer to see if the reality is better than school. I absolutely hate it. I hate sitting on my butt all day pushing paper that no one will ever read. I want to do something that makes a difference. And I'd really like to interact with other flesh and blood people rather than sitting in front of a screen all day. I think I'd prefer running around after kindergarten students all day to sitting around in an office by myself, getting face time with another human being maybe for a couple hours a week if I'm lucky.

keg411
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Re: t14 to teacher/firefighter/cop

Postby keg411 » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:18 am

I think teaching isn't a bad choice, assuming you can find an opening. In some states, you only need an advanced degree (so the JD counts), and in others you can get a M.Ed. for pretty inexpensive. The downsides are that the job may not be for you and isn't easy, and that it can be tough to find a job (know a few teachers who are either out of work or needed to get another job because they couldn't get a teaching job at all).

I have a family friend who left law for teaching and did it for a number of years.

dudders
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Re: t14 to teacher/firefighter/cop

Postby dudders » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:09 am

dixiecupdrinking wrote:Honestly, if you can get into a decent police department and are cut out for the work it's a pretty sweet option. You'd get public service loan forgiveness after ten years and, in the NYPD for instance, retirement with a half-salary pension after 20. If you make Lieutenant that means you can retire at 45-50 and make $50-55k a year for the rest of your life, plus have a whole second career... go open a solo shop at that point and have the $50k cushion to support you through the lean years. Sounds like a pretty decent career to me, especially considering how few law jobs there are out there.


A lot of states/cities are still on hiring freezes, or are only hiring people who are 1) experienced and/or 2) already POST-certified. Places that don't run their own academies are trying to avoid the cost of sending new hires.

Also the pension thing depends a lot on whether you're with a unionized department/municipality. Out west, my non-union significant other has five years on the job and is making less than he started with due to pay cuts. No pension either - it's a save-your-own 401k state.

Fire departments out there also generally want you to be dual-certified already (read: pay your own way), and you need to volunteer for at least 1-2 years before you'll be considered for an FT position.

I do suppose either of those options are cheaper than law school tho.

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Re: t14 to teacher/firefighter/cop

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:26 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I could give you my thoughts on why I left teaching to go to law school.


I'd like to hear it!


I would also like to hear it.

I thought I hated the law as a 1L, but that I should at least try an internship this summer to see if the reality is better than school. I absolutely hate it. I hate sitting on my butt all day pushing paper that no one will ever read. I want to do something that makes a difference. And I'd really like to interact with other flesh and blood people rather than sitting in front of a screen all day. I think I'd prefer running around after kindergarten students all day to sitting around in an office by myself, getting face time with another human being maybe for a couple hours a week if I'm lucky.

I feel exactly the same way.

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Re: t14 to teacher/firefighter/cop

Postby moonman157 » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:26 am

My high school Econ teacher went to Duke law and worked Biglaw. She quit because "you can't put a price tag on crying in the shower every morning."

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Re: t14 to teacher/firefighter/cop

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:55 am

dudders wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:Honestly, if you can get into a decent police department and are cut out for the work it's a pretty sweet option. You'd get public service loan forgiveness after ten years and, in the NYPD for instance, retirement with a half-salary pension after 20. If you make Lieutenant that means you can retire at 45-50 and make $50-55k a year for the rest of your life, plus have a whole second career... go open a solo shop at that point and have the $50k cushion to support you through the lean years. Sounds like a pretty decent career to me, especially considering how few law jobs there are out there.


A lot of states/cities are still on hiring freezes, or are only hiring people who are 1) experienced and/or 2) already POST-certified. Places that don't run their own academies are trying to avoid the cost of sending new hires.

Also the pension thing depends a lot on whether you're with a unionized department/municipality. Out west, my non-union significant other has five years on the job and is making less than he started with due to pay cuts. No pension either - it's a save-your-own 401k state.

Fire departments out there also generally want you to be dual-certified already (read: pay your own way), and you need to volunteer for at least 1-2 years before you'll be considered for an FT position.

I do suppose either of those options are cheaper than law school tho.

Yeah, I guess emphasis on IF you can get into a good job. NYPD still has their pensions, and my sense is the suburban PDs around here are the same (but better pay), but there are a lot of people waiting to get in. Also who's to say the pension will still be there in 20 years.... The unions would have a heart attack over any changes but with the politics of it being what they are these days, I wouldn't take anything for granted.

splitmuch
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Re: t14 to teacher/firefighter/cop

Postby splitmuch » Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:27 am

What is your internship?


Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I could give you my thoughts on why I left teaching to go to law school.


I'd like to hear it!


I would also like to hear it.

I thought I hated the law as a 1L, but that I should at least try an internship this summer to see if the reality is better than school. I absolutely hate it. I hate sitting on my butt all day pushing paper that no one will ever read. I want to do something that makes a difference. And I'd really like to interact with other flesh and blood people rather than sitting in front of a screen all day. I think I'd prefer running around after kindergarten students all day to sitting around in an office by myself, getting face time with another human being maybe for a couple hours a week if I'm lucky.

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Re: t14 to teacher/firefighter/cop

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:39 am

splitmuch wrote:What is your internship?


Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I could give you my thoughts on why I left teaching to go to law school.


I'd like to hear it!


I would also like to hear it.

I thought I hated the law as a 1L, but that I should at least try an internship this summer to see if the reality is better than school. I absolutely hate it. I hate sitting on my butt all day pushing paper that no one will ever read. I want to do something that makes a difference. And I'd really like to interact with other flesh and blood people rather than sitting in front of a screen all day. I think I'd prefer running around after kindergarten students all day to sitting around in an office by myself, getting face time with another human being maybe for a couple hours a week if I'm lucky.

Not that anon but feel the exact same way and I'm an SA this summer.

abc12345675
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Re: t14 to teacher/firefighter/cop

Postby abc12345675 » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:42 am

Law degree from a top school could help you advance to a high ranking position at a PD. I think Police Chief Kelly has a degree from HLS.

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IAFG
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Re: t14 to teacher/firefighter/cop

Postby IAFG » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:51 am

And this is why I am always pushing a good-faith attempt at working a different job before law school.

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Re: t14 to teacher/firefighter/cop

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:52 am

splitmuch wrote:What is your internship?


Anonymous User wrote:
I thought I hated the law as a 1L, but that I should at least try an internship this summer to see if the reality is better than school. I absolutely hate it. I hate sitting on my butt all day pushing paper that no one will ever read. I want to do something that makes a difference. And I'd really like to interact with other flesh and blood people rather than sitting in front of a screen all day. I think I'd prefer running around after kindergarten students all day to sitting around in an office by myself, getting face time with another human being maybe for a couple hours a week if I'm lucky.


I'm working for a government agency. The people are nice, but they're rarely in the office and just give me large research assignments that I assume are for my benefit only because I get very little feedback and doubt they read my work. Most everyone in my office is on vacation right now and asked me to communicate with them via email. Today it was just me and another intern in the office, no one else there except the maintenance crew. Besides the fact that I get little human interaction, it depresses me to think about my future where I'm taking time out from a vacation to fabricate fake assignments for an unpaid intern. Even before vacation season started, it was mostly me sitting in my office, in front of a computer, alone all day and turning in assignments via email because my supervisors are never in their offices. Then I'd get brief comments via email. I can't see myself lasting long in a job like that.




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