In jeopardy of being no offered

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Anonymous User
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In jeopardy of being no offered

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:40 pm

I'm in a strange situation. I was lucky enough to obtain a summer associate position at a biglaw firm in NY.. only to find that I absolutely cannot stand biglaw. I am very uncomfortable with the level of intensity (and preponderance of creepy jerks) at my firm. I've been told multiple times by the hiring partners that my discomfort is noticeable and that I will need to change my attitude to get an offer. I'm trying my best to "perk up," but in the event I'm no offered, will it be impossible to find a job in a smaller firm? Is a "no offer" like a giant red splotch on your transcript?

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Old Gregg
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Re: In jeopardy of being no offered

Postby Old Gregg » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:04 pm

Yes.

Anonymous User
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Re: In jeopardy of being no offered

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:12 pm

When it comes down to it, you have to do what is necessary to further your own career (as long as it is not illegal).

In this case, not looking uncomfortable JUST so that you get an offer.

You may not like biglaw, but if you want to get out of it, get that offer and then bolt at the end of the summer. I'm not telling you to actually BE comfortable. Just LOOK comfortable for the remaining few weeks. Play their game. Win the hand. Then cash in your chips at the end.

You're going to have workplace politics wherever you go, regardless of industry. Better learn how to navigate it starting now.

timbs4339
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Re: In jeopardy of being no offered

Postby timbs4339 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:When it comes down to it, you have to do what is necessary to further your own career (as long as it is not illegal).

In this case, not looking uncomfortable JUST so that you get an offer.

You may not like biglaw, but if you want to get out of it, get that offer and then bolt at the end of the summer. I'm not telling you to actually BE comfortable. Just LOOK comfortable for the remaining few weeks. Play their game. Win the hand. Then cash in your chips at the end.

You're going to have workplace politics wherever you go, regardless of industry. Better learn how to navigate it starting now.


+1

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ben4847
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Re: In jeopardy of being no offered

Postby ben4847 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:20 pm

Dude: If you can't put a frozen smile on your face for 10 weeks...

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Re: In jeopardy of being no offered

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:22 pm

Um news flash lots of people don't like their jobs (especially in law). The fact that it is so obvious that you don't like yours that people have told you about it makes it seem like you need to do some serious work on your poker face. Get the offer if you can, might be too late, then try to figure out what you like to do and try to get that job.

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Re: In jeopardy of being no offered

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:35 pm

Can you clarify on what exactly you mean by displaying noticeable discomfort??? I understand how someone may not enjoy working for a large firm, but what are you doing to illicit partners telling you to perk up or GTFO??

You should see my face when I click through to a new document every 3 minutes, I'm sure my bosses just love it...

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sunynp
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Re: In jeopardy of being no offered

Postby sunynp » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:38 pm

This offer is the key to your future and you have it in your hands. Do whatever it takes to get that offer. Have you been complaining? SA's never complain. Get specific things they want you to do to improve and then do them all with as much gusto as you can manage.

What exactly did you do to get on the partners' radar?

You might prepare asking for a cold offer at the end of the summer so that you don't get totally screwed by a no offer.

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Re: In jeopardy of being no offered

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:46 pm

Dude, I might be the most introverted person ever and ordinarily show little emotion, but just fake it. In my mid-summer review, multiple reviews said they were impressed with my "enthusiasm" and "sociability." I'm no fan of big law either, but I'll gladly put on an act if it means 2-3 years of making $160K+.

JusticeJackson
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Re: In jeopardy of being no offered

Postby JusticeJackson » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:03 pm

.
Last edited by JusticeJackson on Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

abc12345675
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Re: In jeopardy of being no offered

Postby abc12345675 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:05 pm

Dude you need to suck it up. Get an offer, stick it out for 3 years and get out of there

Pokemon
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Re: In jeopardy of being no offered

Postby Pokemon » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:17 pm

Discomfort? Creepy jerks? Unless this is a subtle way of saying you are being sexually harassed, then you just need to do what all of us do. Smile away and type away!

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Re: In jeopardy of being no offered

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:28 pm

do so few people love biglaw jobs?

I understnad that the job itself is not that exciting to most people. yet, as someone who almost never got to work at biglaw and who managed to get it somehow I would say I enjoy it. I think it's the exclusivity plus other factors ($$) made me love it. whatever. I've worked other jobs and to me, it's better than most jobs.

alabamabound
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Re: In jeopardy of being no offered

Postby alabamabound » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:38 pm

Example of "creepy jerk" type behavior?

Morgan12Oak
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Re: In jeopardy of being no offered

Postby Morgan12Oak » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:47 pm

I see it both ways. An offer helps going into anything, but I know of a few people who didn't get offers (albeit when the economy was shitty and no one got offers) who landed good mid-law type jobs.

You can try to chalk it up to just getting no offered based on fit and/or the economy. Some firms might assume it was work product which would suck but a no offers not an end all of all hopes.

But you can also just say fuck it and keep doing what you're doing it. When push comes to shove see if that biglaw firm in NY is willing to ruin its offer rate over someone feeling "discomfort."

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romothesavior
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Re: In jeopardy of being no offered

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:52 pm

OP, what kind of behavior are you engaging in that people are commenting on it?

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Re: In jeopardy of being no offered

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:13 pm

OP here.

In a nutshell: I am not noticeably unhappy, just a bit intimidated. FWIW, I am a soft spoken female in a male-dominated shark tank. I'm trying to "man up," but it's totally out of my comfort zone.

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Re: In jeopardy of being no offered

Postby r6_philly » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here.

In a nutshell: I am not noticeably unhappy, just a bit intimidated. FWIW, I am a soft spoken female in a male-dominated shark tank. I'm trying to "man up," but it's totally out of my comfort zone.


Can you make friends with a young female associate? Reach out to your summer coordinator or the firm's diversity/women initiative and see if they can assign you a mentor or just have someone to talk to.

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Re: In jeopardy of being no offered

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:46 pm

OP, here's my two cents. I worked at a big law firm as a summer associate many moons ago. I did not fit in culturally there. I ended up doing very well during my 2L year (top 5% at t10), and got a federal clerkship almost purely on the strength of my 2L grades (my 1L grades were so-so, maybe top third?).

I didn't get no-offered, but I definitely was the worst "fit" at my firm. I am a bit surprised I got the offer, and I suspect it was more that they wanted to brag about 100% on ATL than actually hire me. It was a good fit for both parties that I got a clerkship. Now, several doors have opened to me. I am doing a second clerkship (appellate), and the more removed I am from big law the less I actually want to return.

I'm looking at some other options, including boutiques and working at a state attorney general's office with the intention of lateraling to an AUSA position somewhere.

So if you're like me, a big law refugee, just kick butt during 2L and 3L years, try to land a clerkship, and just stay away from big law if you can help it.

anonymcoffee
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Re: In jeopardy of being no offered

Postby anonymcoffee » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:30 am

when I read your post, my immediate thought was some form of sexual harassment. I'm a girl, and I could see that being a problem if it's a male dominated environment - it doesn't have to be purposeful/obvious, but I've worked in some places where I just didn't feel comfortable.

I'd identify the issue first, is it the people in the section, the firm, or biglaw aspect overall? Getting an offer could help you in finding a better firm with a better fit. good luck, that place sounds terrible.

ajaxconstructions
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Re: In jeopardy of being no offered

Postby ajaxconstructions » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:36 am

How unhappy do you have to be to be no offered? Unless you are like crying at your desk this seems weird.

itbdvorm
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Re: In jeopardy of being no offered

Postby itbdvorm » Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:45 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP, here's my two cents. I worked at a big law firm as a summer associate many moons ago. I did not fit in culturally there. I ended up doing very well during my 2L year (top 5% at t10), and got a federal clerkship almost purely on the strength of my 2L grades (my 1L grades were so-so, maybe top third?).

I didn't get no-offered, but I definitely was the worst "fit" at my firm. I am a bit surprised I got the offer, and I suspect it was more that they wanted to brag about 100% on ATL than actually hire me. It was a good fit for both parties that I got a clerkship. Now, several doors have opened to me. I am doing a second clerkship (appellate), and the more removed I am from big law the less I actually want to return.

I'm looking at some other options, including boutiques and working at a state attorney general's office with the intention of lateraling to an AUSA position somewhere.

So if you're like me, a big law refugee, just kick butt during 2L and 3L years, try to land a clerkship, and just stay away from big law if you can help it.


This is good advice, as is the advice about trying to talk to a mentor (though I would advise someone you know already rather than someone you get assigned). Fake it til you make it, but also talk to a junior associate of comparable gender/demeanor/etc. about the "creepy jerks" and see what you get back...

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: In jeopardy of being no offered

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:09 am

Just try to keep in mind that if you want to switch to another firm it will be a billion times easier if you have an offer in hand from this firm. I'm not suggesting you put up with illegal behavior if that's what this is about, but if you've got it in you at all to put on a happy face for the next month, it will pay off. Remember you're doing it for you, not for them.

AllTheLawz
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Re: In jeopardy of being no offered

Postby AllTheLawz » Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:26 am

huh?... you have to walk around with a sad face painted on your face for anyone to notice your emotional state during a summer program. Troll??

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ChikaBoom
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Re: In jeopardy of being no offered

Postby ChikaBoom » Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:14 am

OP, I agree with the above posters. Unless you're being sexually harassed, suck it up cupcake.

All jobs come with discomforts. It's up to you to determine whether you can take that job and shove it or you need to play the game a little longer. In this case, it seems that it would clearly benefit you to play the game. If your boss is noticing that you're unhappy or uncomfortable, then it is way too obvious. If there is a serious issue, work with someone to resolve it. If not, fix your face.

You got biglaw because that's what you asked for. (I hope that) You didn't get into law school and make it this far by being whiny or easily intimidated. Chalk this up as an experience that you were lucky to have, even if all it does is help you to know what you don't want to do.

Good Luck.




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