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Anonymous User
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Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:32 am

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Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:45 am, edited 4 times in total.

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darkarmour
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Re: Please critique my bid list ~ 3.05 UPenn

Postby darkarmour » Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:54 am

You probably already know this, but you pushing against the bottom third.

Most of these firms are reaches for you. I can't speak to the NYC offices, so just rely on the CPP data. I can speak with some authority re: California.

I assume you have no STEM background and average work experience. Because you don't say so, I assume you have average ties to LA (family, grew up there, etc). Every one of your California bids are reaches. None of them is particularly more inclined to hire you than the others.

- You don't come close to meeting Munger's hard grade requirements. If I were you, I'd leave Munger off the bid list entirely. Seriously. There are other firms actually worth your bid.

- GDC and Latham in Socal. You have very slim chances of getting offers here. Your grades are at the bottom of the barrel for these offices, and you'll need an ace card to get that callback. I think these are still worth bidding on, for the hell of it.

I can't advise you strongly enough to do a serious, comprehensive mass-mailing campaign. You are in a grade range where many Penn students struck out in prior years. You need to mail every plausible law office you can think of. Because of your grades, you absolutely need to consider regional firms (of which there are many, in California).

chasgoose
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Re: Please critique my bid list ~ 3.05 UPenn

Postby chasgoose » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:21 am

Yeah MTO isn't going to happen and is a waste of a bid... So are Ropes, Cleary, Quinn Emanuel, or Skadden. I don't know where you are getting this info (and admittedly I don't know the grade ranges for Penn) but a lot of these firms seem to be out of your grade range.

I would also get rid of OC offices since they are tiny and can be way more grade selective and have plenty of above median USC/UCLA people to choose from.

Depending on what your breakdown is, Shearman might be too much of a stretch too (I have heard they are relatively grade flexible so long as there are no B-'s). I would make a phone appointment with your OCS as soon as possible to work out a strategy. Big law is still possible but this bidlist makes it highly unlikely.

Anonymous User
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Re: Please critique my bid list ~ 3.05 UPenn

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:58 am

Anonymous User wrote:Below Is the first part of my bid list. I have ~ 3.05 GPA at Penn. I was around median last semester, but one mark killed me. No real work experience. I'm aiming for SoCal and NYC. Some ties to the former. All firms are NYC unless indicated. Ignore repeats.

1 Ropes & Gray
2 Dechert
3 Linklaters
4 Schulte Roth & Zabel
5 Katten Muchin Rosenman
6 Willkie Farr & Gallagher
7 Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher (LA/OC)
8 Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson
9 Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft
10 Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy
11 Shearman & Sterling
12 Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton
13 Stroock & Stroock & Lavan
14 Clifford Chance US
15 Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher (LA/OC)
16 Bryan Cave
17 Mayer Brown
18 Latham & Watkins (LA/OC)
19 Latham & Watkins (LA/OC)
20 Munger, Tolles & Olson (LA/OC)
21 Sidley Austin
22 Cahill Gordon & Reindel
23 Chadbourne & Parke
24 Brown Rudnick
25 Paul Hastings
26 Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld
27 Hogan Lovells
28 Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom (LA/OC)
29 Winston & Strawn
30 Seward & Kissel
31 Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher
32 Hughes Hubbard & Reed
33 Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel
34 Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan,
35 Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld (LA/OC)
36 Allen & Overy

Methodology: Firms within my grade range by class size with some slight variations for preference.

If you were around median last semester and you fell to a 3.05 this semester with "one mark killing you," did you get a discretionary C by chance?

Anyway, barring some extenuating circumstances (URM status, extensive work experience, etc) that bid list is mighty ambitious. With your grades, you can still feasibly get biglaw--a vault-ranked job, even. But if you bid recklessly, you could also strike out.

New York/any secondary markets you have ties to are your friends (I assume you have ties to LA?). Don't bid anywhere else. Mass-mail like mad. Start making connections with potential employers now. My GPA is a bit higher than yours (~3.11) and I'm making sure to stay on my toes as well. Some firms you should definitely move to your top 20: Brown Rudnick, Chadbourne & Park (they have a shitty reputation, but 160 is 160 and better overworked/underrespected than unemployed), Lowenstein Sandler.

Anonymous User
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Re: Please critique my bid list ~ 3.05 UPenn

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:59 pm

chasgoose wrote:
I would also get rid of OC offices since they are tiny and can be way more grade selective and have plenty of above median USC/UCLA people to choose from.

Depending on what your breakdown is, Shearman might be too much of a stretch too (I have heard they are relatively grade flexible so long as there are no B-'s). I would make a phone appointment with your OCS as soon as possible to work out a strategy. Big law is still possible but this bidlist makes it highly unlikely.


with regard to the OC what about a saturation of UCLA/USC students? do firms want a diversity of schools?

dixon02
Posts: 374
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Re: Please critique my bid list ~ 3.05 UPenn

Postby dixon02 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:14 pm

Switch the 0 and the 5 in your GPA, and this list would be more appropriate. It just seems entirely too ambitious and not realistic enough. Having a few reaches is fine, but there are entirely too many here and some are beyond reaches. I mean, Munger? With a 3.05 from Penn?

ajaxconstructions
Posts: 248
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 12:24 am

Re: Please critique my bid list ~ 3.05 UPenn

Postby ajaxconstructions » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:39 pm

Not sure about Penn grade cutoffs but this list seems too ambitious. Ropes & Gray NYC is out of reach for you and so are many of the others on that list. Munger? Latham? Cleary?

chasgoose
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Re: Please critique my bid list ~ 3.05 UPenn

Postby chasgoose » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
chasgoose wrote:
I would also get rid of OC offices since they are tiny and can be way more grade selective and have plenty of above median USC/UCLA people to choose from.

Depending on what your breakdown is, Shearman might be too much of a stretch too (I have heard they are relatively grade flexible so long as there are no B-'s). I would make a phone appointment with your OCS as soon as possible to work out a strategy. Big law is still possible but this bidlist makes it highly unlikely.


with regard to the OC what about a saturation of UCLA/USC students? do firms want a diversity of schools?


To an extent, but they aren't going out of their way for someone from Penn... Maybe someone from YHS. Also OC SA classes are so small they are never going to have that much school diversity.

Anonymous User
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Re: Please critique my bid list ~ 3.05 UPenn

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:28 pm

OP here.

Thanks for all of the responses. I used our school-provided selection charts to compose the bid list. I placed heavy emphasis on grades (not provided for all firms), callbacks, and offer rates. Beyond our materials, I admittedly do not know much about firms' hiring reputations.

I'll remove some of the reaches (Ropes, Munger, Cleary, Latham), including most of the California offices, in order to make room for some lower-ranked firms. I am very weary, however, to give firms high bids if they have small summer classes.

Any advice?

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Please critique my bid list ~ 3.05 UPenn

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:57 pm

OP again.

Also, are there any firms not listed that I SHOULD be including/moving up on on the list?

r6_philly
Posts: 10707
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:32 pm

Re: Please critique my bid list ~ 3.05 UPenn

Postby r6_philly » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP again.

Also, are there any firms not listed that I SHOULD be including/moving up on on the list?


A lot of the firms on there are not happening. Maybe with WE or other factors you might have a shot, but as of right now you will be wasting a lot of screeners. I would work backward in CA by taking the whole list of CA firms and remove ones you have very little chance. Then go to NY and choose V100/NLJ250 firms with larger classes. If you have bids left over, then put some of the firms you took out back in. There are some firms you will surely have a good shot at, but you have to make sure you get the screener.

You are supposed to get maybe 7-8 out of your top 10, and 10-15 out of your top 30, and maybe 20 or so all together. There will also be some open spots after bidding. Make sure you get interviews with firms you have realistic shot at.

Did you send your list to CPP? They should have told you to revise.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Please critique my bid list ~ 3.05 UPenn

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:02 am

Bumped bc updated.

HeavenWood
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Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Please critique my bid list ~ 3.05 UPenn

Postby HeavenWood » Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:15 am

Anonymous User wrote:Bumped bc updated.

Put Katten in your top 10.




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