Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:19 am

Any news from K&L Gates (Dallas)?

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:36 am

What does lockstep look like? I know all firms start at 160k, but I know there is elite TX lockstep, TX lockstep, and nat'l lockstep

Nat'l lockstep looking like 160, 170, 185, 210, 230, etc, and this is Sidley, Latham, Simpson, Weil, Jones day?, patton boggs, akin gump

What do the other firms' compensation look like? I know that lockstep is compressed...

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby philosoraptor » Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:07 am

Thanks to those who have defended UT against the spineless guy bashing the school anonymously. He (I assume he) sounds like someone who was arrogant about his credentials, probably got a scholarship and thought he was better than his classmates, walked into OCI thinking biglaw jobs would just fall into his lap, complained during interviews and was just a bummer to talk to, struck out, flipped out, got jealous of the frat boys and sorority girls (who he assumed had worse grades than he did) who got jobs because they weren't a bummer to interview, and blamed the school for his own failure. And apparently he thinks all the Texas firms shut out blacks and gays on a regular basis (lolwut?).

Anecdotally, most if not all of my 3L friends either have something lined up (mostly biglaw, with a good mix of Austin, Houston/Dallas/San Antonio, East Coast, and West Coast firms) or have set themselves up extremely well for something (mostly public service-oriented folks who can't get hired until after graduation regardless). I myself was not far above median after 1L and got a great firm gig because I had a plan, followed through, and didn't take anything for granted. Those with much better grades than I who rested on their laurels had much more trouble.

There is one category of students to whom I absolutely would not recommend UT: those who want DC (firms to some extent, but mostly government or nonprofit). Amazingly, UT seems to go out of its way to deny opportunities to people aiming for public-sector stuff in DC. This school is great for almost everything else (especially biglaw, clerkships, and Texas-oriented public service), but if you want DC, go to GULC instead.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:13 pm

Can anyone confirm that Skadden Houston is accepting 1 lit and 1 transactional for next summer?

I know this is their typical practice, but we've now had 2 people claim to have Skadden Houston offers. Can anyone verify for sure that this is their plan for next summer?

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Can anyone confirm that Skadden Houston is accepting 1 lit and 1 transactional for next summer?

I know this is their typical practice, but we've now had 2 people claim to have Skadden Houston offers. Can anyone verify for sure that this is their plan for next summer?


I know the guy who got the first transactional offer. I'm really not sure if he's going to take it.

I do not know who got the Lit offer.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:43 pm

BB Austin post-CB ding via mail. Ouch.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:44 pm

TK Houston snailmail ding.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:59 pm

Ak Dallas offers update?

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:28 pm

BG Houston offers anyone?

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:47 pm

philosoraptor wrote:Thanks to those who have defended UT against the spineless guy bashing the school anonymously. He (I assume he) sounds like someone who was arrogant about his credentials, probably got a scholarship and thought he was better than his classmates, walked into OCI thinking biglaw jobs would just fall into his lap, complained during interviews and was just a bummer to talk to, struck out, flipped out, got jealous of the frat boys and sorority girls (who he assumed had worse grades than he did) who got jobs because they weren't a bummer to interview, and blamed the school for his own failure. And apparently he thinks all the Texas firms shut out blacks and gays on a regular basis (lolwut?).

Anecdotally, most if not all of my 3L friends either have something lined up (mostly biglaw, with a good mix of Austin, Houston/Dallas/San Antonio, East Coast, and West Coast firms) or have set themselves up extremely well for something (mostly public service-oriented folks who can't get hired until after graduation regardless). I myself was not far above median after 1L and got a great firm gig because I had a plan, followed through, and didn't take anything for granted. Those with much better grades than I who rested on their laurels had much more trouble.

There is one category of students to whom I absolutely would not recommend UT: those who want DC (firms to some extent, but mostly government or nonprofit). Amazingly, UT seems to go out of its way to deny opportunities to people aiming for public-sector stuff in DC. This school is great for almost everything else (especially biglaw, clerkships, and Texas-oriented public service), but if you want DC, go to GULC instead.


Also, it's pretty funny that the dude is complaining about UT placement while simultaneously mentioning that near-median people are getting jobs (beating him out for jobs ha). If near median is getting big law, I'd say placement is pretty good.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby 2014utLaw » Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:58 pm

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Last edited by 2014utLaw on Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby granger » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:07 pm

nonprofit-prophet wrote:
philosoraptor wrote:Thanks to those who have defended UT against the spineless guy bashing the school anonymously. He (I assume he) sounds like someone who was arrogant about his credentials, probably got a scholarship and thought he was better than his classmates, walked into OCI thinking biglaw jobs would just fall into his lap, complained during interviews and was just a bummer to talk to, struck out, flipped out, got jealous of the frat boys and sorority girls (who he assumed had worse grades than he did) who got jobs because they weren't a bummer to interview, and blamed the school for his own failure. And apparently he thinks all the Texas firms shut out blacks and gays on a regular basis (lolwut?).

Anecdotally, most if not all of my 3L friends either have something lined up (mostly biglaw, with a good mix of Austin, Houston/Dallas/San Antonio, East Coast, and West Coast firms) or have set themselves up extremely well for something (mostly public service-oriented folks who can't get hired until after graduation regardless). I myself was not far above median after 1L and got a great firm gig because I had a plan, followed through, and didn't take anything for granted. Those with much better grades than I who rested on their laurels had much more trouble.

There is one category of students to whom I absolutely would not recommend UT: those who want DC (firms to some extent, but mostly government or nonprofit). Amazingly, UT seems to go out of its way to deny opportunities to people aiming for public-sector stuff in DC. This school is great for almost everything else (especially biglaw, clerkships, and Texas-oriented public service), but if you want DC, go to GULC instead.

(beating him out for jobs ha)


gratuitous. hiring process didn't go my way & i'm not attacking UT, but some folks are gonna. there's not a whole lot of need to get hyperdefensive about UT's quality; prob a lot less need to straight up be a dick to someone who's already down.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:11 pm

As a Texan, I love UT. But there is overhype on TLS.

See: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

21.47% of UT grads are in the NLJ 250.

Compare that with Cornell (#11), which is around 38%.

Although that guy is a little bitter, he is correct in that perhaps some T14 schools provide a higher chance of BigLaw employment than UT.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:12 pm

granger wrote:
nonprofit-prophet wrote:
philosoraptor wrote:Thanks to those who have defended UT against the spineless guy bashing the school anonymously. He (I assume he) sounds like someone who was arrogant about his credentials, probably got a scholarship and thought he was better than his classmates, walked into OCI thinking biglaw jobs would just fall into his lap, complained during interviews and was just a bummer to talk to, struck out, flipped out, got jealous of the frat boys and sorority girls (who he assumed had worse grades than he did) who got jobs because they weren't a bummer to interview, and blamed the school for his own failure. And apparently he thinks all the Texas firms shut out blacks and gays on a regular basis (lolwut?).

Anecdotally, most if not all of my 3L friends either have something lined up (mostly biglaw, with a good mix of Austin, Houston/Dallas/San Antonio, East Coast, and West Coast firms) or have set themselves up extremely well for something (mostly public service-oriented folks who can't get hired until after graduation regardless). I myself was not far above median after 1L and got a great firm gig because I had a plan, followed through, and didn't take anything for granted. Those with much better grades than I who rested on their laurels had much more trouble.

There is one category of students to whom I absolutely would not recommend UT: those who want DC (firms to some extent, but mostly government or nonprofit). Amazingly, UT seems to go out of its way to deny opportunities to people aiming for public-sector stuff in DC. This school is great for almost everything else (especially biglaw, clerkships, and Texas-oriented public service), but if you want DC, go to GULC instead.

(beating him out for jobs ha)


gratuitous. hiring process didn't go my way & i'm not attacking UT, but some folks are gonna. there's not a whole lot of need to get hyperdefensive about UT's quality; prob a lot less need to straight up be a dick to someone who's already down.


Oh I didn't mean it like that. I included that fact as a way of foreclosing a possible counter-argument. It's not just that near-median people are getting big law. They are getting desirable big law jobs, since they are the same ones he was going out for.

I apologize if it came off poorly

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:As a Texan, I love UT. But there is overhype on TLS.

See: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

21.47% of UT grads are in the NLJ 250.

Compare that with Cornell (#11), which is around 38%.

Although that guy is a little bitter, he is correct in that perhaps some T14 schools provide a higher chance of BigLaw employment than UT.


ALL T14s provide a better chance of biglaw than UT. But to make statements like "Top 1/3 at Michigan is better than top 10% at UT for Texas Biglaw" and then accusing Texas firms of discriminating against minorities is absolutely ridiculous.

Maybe UT is a bit overhyped, fine, but don't go pulling statistics out of your ass and making completely inaccurate statements just b/c you didn't get a job.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby DMXdawg » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:23 pm

Percentage of graduates that go to a NLJ 250 firm is not "pulling figures out of his ass."

NLJ 250 firms are defined as: The NLJ 250 includes the 250 largest law firms headquartered in the United States. This is measured by the firm-reported annual average number of full-time and full-time equivalent attorneys working at the firm, in any office, in 2011.

To list some: this includes traditional TX firms like V&E, BB, FJ, Akin Gump, Locke Lord, HayBoo, Bracewell, Andrews Kurth, Thompson and Knight, Jackson Walker,Gardere, Winstead, and Strasburger.

Not to mention satellite TX offices for firms (some with big TX offices) like Sidley Austin, Simpson Thatcher, Patton Boggs, Weil, Jones Day, Morgan Lewis, Cadwalader, Skadden, Hunton & Williams, Baker Donelson etc.

21.47% is a good percentage, but it is not close to the Cornells of the law school world.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:As a Texan, I love UT. But there is overhype on TLS.

See: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

21.47% of UT grads are in the NLJ 250.

Compare that with Cornell (#11), which is around 38%.

Although that guy is a little bitter, he is correct in that perhaps some T14 schools provide a higher chance of BigLaw employment than UT.


ALL T14s provide a better chance of biglaw than UT. But to make statements like "Top 1/3 at Michigan is better than top 10% at UT for Texas Biglaw" and then accusing Texas firms of discriminating against minorities is absolutely ridiculous.

Maybe UT is a bit overhyped, fine, but don't go pulling statistics out of your ass and making completely inaccurate statements just b/c you didn't get a job.


Yea I think there is some overhype, but I also think Texas is a bit unique, in that there are more boutiques in Texas than just about any other state. If you're calculating big law percentages by firm size, then Texas takes a hit. Firms like Susman (2 offices in TX), Gibbs, Beck Redden, Yetter, Bickel, Reynolds, Scott Doug, etc end up taking probably somewhere between 10-15 UT students. Out of a class of 300 (this Years class size), that definitely has an impact.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby spacepenguin » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:27 pm

DMXdawg wrote:Percentage of graduates that go to a NLJ 250 firm is not "pulling figures out of his ass."

NLJ 250 firms are defined as: The NLJ 250 includes the 250 largest law firms headquartered in the United States. This is measured by the firm-reported annual average number of full-time and full-time equivalent attorneys working at the firm, in any office, in 2011.

To list some: this includes traditional TX firms like V&E, BB, FJ, Akin Gump, Locke Lord, HayBoo, Bracewell, Andrews Kurth, Thompson and Knight, Jackson Walker,Gardere, Winstead, and Strasburger.

Not to mention satellite TX offices for firms (some with big TX offices) like Sidley Austin, Simpson Thatcher, Patton Boggs, Weil, Jones Day, Morgan Lewis, Cadwalader, Skadden, Hunton & Williams, Baker Donelson etc.

21.47% is a good percentage, but it is not close to the Cornells of the law school world.



Now that we've established that UT doesn't place as well as the T-14, but still does remarkably well in Texas, can we get this thread back on track?

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby de5igual » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:29 pm

DMXdawg wrote:Percentage of graduates that go to a NLJ 250 firm is not "pulling figures out of his ass."

NLJ 250 firms are defined as: The NLJ 250 includes the 250 largest law firms headquartered in the United States. This is measured by the firm-reported annual average number of full-time and full-time equivalent attorneys working at the firm, in any office, in 2011.

To list some: this includes traditional TX firms like V&E, BB, FJ, Akin Gump, Locke Lord, HayBoo, Bracewell, Andrews Kurth, Thompson and Knight, Jackson Walker,Gardere, Winstead, and Strasburger.

Not to mention satellite TX offices for firms (some with big TX offices) like Sidley Austin, Simpson Thatcher, Patton Boggs, Weil, Jones Day, Morgan Lewis, Cadwalader, Skadden, Hunton & Williams, Baker Donelson etc.

21.47% is a good percentage, but it is not close to the Cornells of the law school world.


Pretty sure the figure being pulled out of the ass is the "Michigan top 1/3 > UT top 10%" and the "Vanderbilt > UT for Texas" comments. The former is unlikely true and the latter is definitely not true.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:48 pm

spacepenguin wrote:
DMXdawg wrote:Percentage of graduates that go to a NLJ 250 firm is not "pulling figures out of his ass."

NLJ 250 firms are defined as: The NLJ 250 includes the 250 largest law firms headquartered in the United States. This is measured by the firm-reported annual average number of full-time and full-time equivalent attorneys working at the firm, in any office, in 2011.

To list some: this includes traditional TX firms like V&E, BB, FJ, Akin Gump, Locke Lord, HayBoo, Bracewell, Andrews Kurth, Thompson and Knight, Jackson Walker,Gardere, Winstead, and Strasburger.

Not to mention satellite TX offices for firms (some with big TX offices) like Sidley Austin, Simpson Thatcher, Patton Boggs, Weil, Jones Day, Morgan Lewis, Cadwalader, Skadden, Hunton & Williams, Baker Donelson etc.

21.47% is a good percentage, but it is not close to the Cornells of the law school world.



Now that we've established that UT doesn't place as well as the T-14, but still does remarkably well in Texas, can we get this thread back on track?


Agreed. I like how this all started with a 0L asking how to secure a V&E OCI, CB, Offer, Associate job, Partner, Managing Partner to God placement. (Ok, I'm exaggerating!) But think it is safe to say it takes more than grades and school although they both help.

Now back to the ding and offer fest?

What firms are people still waiting on? I think we've got B&G, FJ-Houston, AK-Houston, Baker Donelson, LL-Dallas, what else?

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:55 pm

anyone hear from hogan lovells houston or winstead dallas this week (only offers i saw were before i had a cb)?

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:16 pm

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Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:18 pm

I personally know of one Texas firm that openly admits it doesn't hire Chinese people.

Out this firm.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:It's funny how it seems that more than half the UT 3L's without jobs are African-Americans or other minorities. You could say they all have bad grades, but I know for sure that is not the case. I personally know of one Texas firm that openly admits it doesn't hire Chinese people. A butch girl with a 4.0 + was told that she would have to wear skirts to work by Andrews Kurth and then rejected the next day.

As one friend from NYC (Asian female who got shut out of TX and ended up at NYC V30), Texas firms are "bro-ey." If that's your thing, great. If it's not, don't think that anyone who gets good grades at UT will be fine. Because Texas firms are all about "fit." And gays, minorities, and women who don't "dress for men" do not "fit."

Gay male here. This was part of my issue (thought not all of it). I am more of a government guy, anyway. I just interviewed with big law because friends were, and I decided afterwards I was right all along about Texas firms. I got an offer in NYC, though, and a CB in LA. I most definitely did not strike out, but I might turn down big law anyway, unless someone can convince me that NYC big law isn't so regressive compared to TX law (pretty sure it's not).

In an interview, I was asked why I preferred Dallas. I said it was because of the metro system; I like public transportation. Their response? "only poor people take that." Yeah, ever heard of veiled racism?


One thing I know about UT is that 2Ls barely know any 3Ls...so I find it surprising that you would know enough people to even make the observation that "most" of the jobless 3Ls are minorities. Also, a firm openly admits that it doesn't hire Chinese? LOLWUT? I can see that a firm could be more xenophobic, but I highly doubt any firm that racist could distinguish Chinese from any other Asian. (Jackson Walker comes to mind with that one)

The other issues you point out are probably correct, although I doubt your Asian friend got dinged because she was Asian. More likely, she came off as an obnoxious northeast lib bitch. I can see how that would rub Texans the wrong way. Also, are you from Dallas? Complimenting the public transit there really betrays your lack of ties.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:43 pm

I'm gay and was completely out with it during OCI and feel like it helped me way over perform my numbers. UT, all TX biglaw.




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