Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:0L here with TX roots. Just curious: around what % must you be at UT to secure a V&E houston CB and offer?


There's no secure for a callback. This is an interview, it is not law school admissions where they look at LSAT and GPA and go okay. You need to ace the interview and make a connection and even then some factors are simply out of your control.

That said V&E does seem to be stricter on grades. Meaning if you are below the top 15-20% getting an offer there will probably be very tough/impossible. But while a high GPA is NECESSARY, it is not SUFFICIENT.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:0L here with TX roots. Just curious: around what % must you be at UT to secure a V&E houston CB and offer?


There's no secure for a callback. This is an interview, it is not law school admissions where they look at LSAT and GPA and go okay. You need to ace the interview and make a connection and even then some factors are simply out of your control.

That said V&E does seem to be stricter on grades. Meaning if you are below the top 15-20% getting an offer there will probably be very tough/impossible. But while a high GPA is NECESSARY, it is not SUFFICIENT.


TITCR

A UT 3.7 Law Review guy went 0/29 out of his screeners (he had a dropout thread). Nothing is secure.

In contrast, there are a lot of people I know who are over-performing (median getting biglaw, etc.) because they have fantastic personalities.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby granger » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:08 pm

3.73, went 3/26 on cbs, no offers so far. love throwing pity parties 4 myself 8)

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Has anyone had a ding from LL Dallas post-CB yet?


+1. Where is my rejection letter? I did terrible in my CB and wish they would just get it over with.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:25 pm

Anyone do this week's CB at Porter Hedges? Curious to know how many people were at the second one.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:32 pm

[Edited]
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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:35 pm

Other than what has already been posted above, anyone get recent offers from Patton Boggs? Or Gardere????

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:0L here with TX roots. Just curious: around what % must you be at UT to secure a V&E houston CB and offer?


There's no secure for a callback. This is an interview, it is not law school admissions where they look at LSAT and GPA and go okay. You need to ace the interview and make a connection and even then some factors are simply out of your control.

That said V&E does seem to be stricter on grades. Meaning if you are below the top 15-20% getting an offer there will probably be very tough/impossible. But while a high GPA is NECESSARY, it is not SUFFICIENT.



Wow had heard that V&E took a lot of people even at median, but didnt realize it was more like top quarter. And when I said "to secure" I meant that and not "to be secure" like most of you jumped on. Guess law school ruins ya RC skills


Median? I think only like half of UT gets biglaw and that might be slightly generous in my estimation. V&E is one of the most selective Texas firms (with BB being the other). If someone at median pulled V&E, congrats! But I would say it's highly unlikely.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:34 pm

UT, 3.5ish gpa, 2 big law offers so far. It can be done, folks.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:43 pm

AK Dallas offers update?

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:0L here with TX roots. Just curious: around what % must you be at UT to secure a V&E houston CB and offer?


There's no secure for a callback. This is an interview, it is not law school admissions where they look at LSAT and GPA and go okay. You need to ace the interview and make a connection and even then some factors are simply out of your control.

That said V&E does seem to be stricter on grades. Meaning if you are below the top 15-20% getting an offer there will probably be very tough/impossible. But while a high GPA is NECESSARY, it is not SUFFICIENT.


This is false, at least for last year. Was probably around top-40 percent and got offers from V&E as well as the other usual suspects. Went 20/24 for biglaw screeners--->offers at UT OCI. No STEM and no significant work experience.

My grades clearly weren't awful, but it cannot be said often enough that just because 25% or whatever get biglaw does not mean the top 25% get biglaw.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:0L here with TX roots. Just curious: around what % must you be at UT to secure a V&E houston CB and offer?


There's no secure for a callback. This is an interview, it is not law school admissions where they look at LSAT and GPA and go okay. You need to ace the interview and make a connection and even then some factors are simply out of your control.

That said V&E does seem to be stricter on grades. Meaning if you are below the top 15-20% getting an offer there will probably be very tough/impossible. But while a high GPA is NECESSARY, it is not SUFFICIENT.


This is false, at least for last year. Was probably around top-40 percent and got offers from V&E as well as the other usual suspects. Went 20/24 for biglaw screeners--->offers at UT OCI. No STEM and no significant work experience.

My grades clearly weren't awful, but it cannot be said often enough that just because 25% or whatever get biglaw does not mean the top 25% get biglaw.


Yeah, UT is way, way worse than its rankings should suggest. If you were in a fraternity/sorority, it might work out for you. Otherwise, it is far from uncommon to be in the top quarter or even the top 10% and strike out completely. It's the nature of preselect that favors certain personalities more than a normal lottery system would.

Were I to do it over again, I would probably take even the lower T14 (at least the ones with ready access to NYC) over UT with a full ride. For many law students, Columbia sticker vs. UT full tuition should be no contest. Also, Vanderbilt is better than UT in just about every way, even if you want to work in Texas. I am surprised that out-of-staters even come to UT anymore since I'm sure Vanderbilt matches whatever financial aid UT gives out to nonresidents. Clerkship placement is equal, and big law is about 30% better at Vandy. Basically, you've got Fordham and Vanderbilt, both with better big law placement than UT. No reason to ever attend UT unless you're from Texas, and the legal market here (which is shrinking, despite the myths) is actually worse than the legal market in northern California, which is expanding.

Also, Austin is a death trap with respect to networking. I went to a networking event, and virtually everyone was an engineer who practiced IP. Really, the only type of law practiced here is IP. I was shocked as a 1L when I wasted an entire evening at a school-wide networking event that was comprised solely of IP attorneys -- because that's mostly what you find at places like V&E, BB, Dechert, and Locke Lord (all the major firms) in Austin. At least at Fordham, you can network with people who actually engage in one of the practices available to most law students. Here's hoping 0L's read this and stay away from UT.
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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:49 pm

^^wtf is this shit? Biglaw at Vandy is 30% better? What does that even mean? Sorry if you struck out, but if you had good grades then that's on you. I know many people from the top 1/3 on up with offers around the country. No one is guaranteed anything, but with good grades UT gives you many options.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:0L here with TX roots. Just curious: around what % must you be at UT to secure a V&E houston CB and offer?


There's no secure for a callback. This is an interview, it is not law school admissions where they look at LSAT and GPA and go okay. You need to ace the interview and make a connection and even then some factors are simply out of your control.

That said V&E does seem to be stricter on grades. Meaning if you are below the top 15-20% getting an offer there will probably be very tough/impossible. But while a high GPA is NECESSARY, it is not SUFFICIENT.


This is false, at least for last year. Was probably around top-40 percent and got offers from V&E as well as the other usual suspects. Went 20/24 for biglaw screeners--->offers at UT OCI. No STEM and no significant work experience.

My grades clearly weren't awful, but it cannot be said often enough that just because 25% or whatever get biglaw does not mean the top 25% get biglaw.


You got 20 callbacks?

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:^^wtf is this shit? Biglaw at Vandy is 30% better? What does that even mean? Sorry if you struck out, but if you had good grades then that's on you. I know many people from the top 1/3 on up with offers around the country. No one is guaranteed anything, but with good grades UT gives you many options.


I'm sure people at many schools top 1/3 and up do well. That's on them. This doesn't change the fact that UT is a worse school than Vanderbilt in just about every way that is relevant to students (faculty reputation is horseshit and isn't important unless you're at HYS trying to go into academia). It's even inferior to Fordham and BU in some ways, including vault firm placement (though UT punches around its weigh on clerkships, which is about the only measure on which UT doesn't drastically under perform its rank).

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:04 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:^^wtf is this shit? Biglaw at Vandy is 30% better? What does that even mean? Sorry if you struck out, but if you had good grades then that's on you. I know many people from the top 1/3 on up with offers around the country. No one is guaranteed anything, but with good grades UT gives you many options.


I'm sure people at many schools top 1/3 and up do well. That's on them. This doesn't change the fact that UT is a worse school than Vanderbilt in just about every way that is relevant to students (faculty reputation is horseshit and isn't important unless you're at HYS trying to go into academia). It's even inferior to Fordham and BU in some ways, including vault firm placement (though UT punches around its weigh on clerkships, which is about the only measure on which UT doesn't drastically under perform its rank).


The academic quality is really high here. Definitely better than Fordham an such. UT is really good if you are a texan that wants to stay in Texas. You pay instate tuition. And according to one partner "UT is the Harvard of Texas.". They ate undoubtedly right. For non texans and those wishing to leave Texas, UT is no better than the other schools. Probably worse. Still those at the top of the class do fine in the job hunt. No matter where they want to go. But you need to be TOP.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:^^wtf is this shit? Biglaw at Vandy is 30% better? What does that even mean? Sorry if you struck out, but if you had good grades then that's on you. I know many people from the top 1/3 on up with offers around the country. No one is guaranteed anything, but with good grades UT gives you many options.


I'm sure people at many schools top 1/3 and up do well. That's on them. This doesn't change the fact that UT is a worse school than Vanderbilt in just about every way that is relevant to students (faculty reputation is horseshit and isn't important unless you're at HYS trying to go into academia). It's even inferior to Fordham and BU in some ways, including vault firm placement (though UT punches around its weigh on clerkships, which is about the only measure on which UT doesn't drastically under perform its rank).


The academic quality is really high here. Definitely better than Fordham an such. UT is really good if you are a texan that wants to stay in Texas. You pay instate tuition. And according to one partner "UT is the Harvard of Texas.". They ate undoubtedly right. For non texans and those wishing to leave Texas, UT is no better than the other schools. Probably worse. Still those at the top of the class do fine in the job hunt. No matter where they want to go. But you need to be TOP.


Academic quality is only "high" at HYS and possibly Chicago. At every other school, the only thing that matters is job placement. Here, UT is an inferior school to Vanderbilt for anyone who is not from Texas. Given how stingy UT is with scholarship money, UT is sometimes not cost effective vs. Vanderbilt for Texas residents also. Vanderbilt also places slightly better in Texas firms, as does most of the T14 (top third at Michigan w/Texas ties outdoes top 10% at UT every time). There's really little reason for anyone outside of Texas to attend UT. And no, top of the class doesn't guarantee anything, anywhere. If anything, UT is set up so that people at the top of the class have less of an advantage than they do at some other schools that either have public rankings (Emory) or rely more on lottery (Vandy, most of the T14).
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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:14 am

I'd have to agree that those with top 15-20% credentials striking out have no one to blame but themselves. These people would have just as likely striked out at any t14. I had around a 3.5 last year and still got a handful of offers after 13 callbacks. Not URM and not Texan.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:^^wtf is this shit? Biglaw at Vandy is 30% better? What does that even mean? Sorry if you struck out, but if you had good grades then that's on you. I know many people from the top 1/3 on up with offers around the country. No one is guaranteed anything, but with good grades UT gives you many options.


I'm sure people at many schools top 1/3 and up do well. That's on them. This doesn't change the fact that UT is a worse school than Vanderbilt in just about every way that is relevant to students (faculty reputation is horseshit and isn't important unless you're at HYS trying to go into academia). It's even inferior to Fordham and BU in some ways, including vault firm placement (though UT punches around its weigh on clerkships, which is about the only measure on which UT doesn't drastically under perform its rank).


The academic quality is really high here. Definitely better than Fordham an such. UT is really good if you are a texan that wants to stay in Texas. You pay instate tuition. And according to one partner "UT is the Harvard of Texas.". They ate undoubtedly right. For non texans and those wishing to leave Texas, UT is no better than the other schools. Probably worse. Still those at the top of the class do fine in the job hunt. No matter where they want to go. But you need to be TOP.


Academic quality is only "high" at HYS and possibly Chicago. At every other school, the only thing that matters is job placement. Here, UT is an inferior school to Vanderbilt for anyone who is not from Texas. Given how stingy UT is with scholarship money, UT is sometimes not cost effective vs. Vanderbilt for Texas residents also. Vanderbilt also places slightly better in Texas firms, as does most of the T14 (top third at Michigan w/Texas ties outdoes top 10% at UT every time). There's really little reason for anyone outside of Texas to attend UT. And no, top of the class doesn't guarantee anything, anywhere. If anything, UT is set up so that people at the top of the class have less of an advantage than they do at some other schools that either have public rankings (Emory) or rely more on lottery (Vandy, most of the T14).


I really do not think top 33% at Michigan outdoes top 10% at UT for TEXANS who want to be IN TEXAS every time. In fact, I highly doubt that. Vanderbilt may be better than UT for everyone else, but it is also slightly harder to get into. I got into UT but not Vandy.

Also, FYI, are you the law review guy who got 29 screeners and struck out??

EDIT: I also meant academic quality is higher than Fordham or BU or whatever else you mentioned. Not necessarily Vandy.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:19 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'd have to agree that those with top 15-20% credentials striking out have no one to blame but themselves. These people would have just as likely striked out at any t14. I had around a 3.5 last year and still got a handful of offers after 13 callbacks. Not URM and not Texan.


Some perhaps, others not, because those at the T14 are interviewing primarily with NYC firms, not Texas firms. I could not imagine NYC firms denying someone with a slight speech impediment the way Texas firms did in that dropout thread. NYC firms also don't shut people out for being black or gay like Texas firms do on a regular basis.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:24 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'd have to agree that those with top 15-20% credentials striking out have no one to blame but themselves. These people would have just as likely striked out at any t14. I had around a 3.5 last year and still got a handful of offers after 13 callbacks. Not URM and not Texan.


Some perhaps, others not, because those at the T14 are interviewing primarily with NYC firms, not Texas firms. I could not imagine NYC firms denying someone with a slight speech impediment the way Texas firms did in that dropout thread. NYC firms also don't shut people out for being black or gay like Texas firms do on a regular basis.


Pretty sure that guy DID interview with plenty of NYC firms too. It's easy to blame the school, but the story get less credible when other top 15/20%ers are getting NYC offers left an right.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:33 am

Anybody know if Fulbright Houston offers have gone out?? Did a CB a couple weeks ago and silence since...is this a de facto ding, or are they slow/haven't put offers out yet? (sorry if the answer is in here somewhere--looked around in the thread but didn't see anything in the last several pages.)

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:46 am

Anonymous User wrote:Anybody know if Fulbright Houston offers have gone out?? Did a CB a couple weeks ago and silence since...is this a de facto ding, or are they slow/haven't put offers out yet? (sorry if the answer is in here somewhere--looked around in the thread but didn't see anything in the last several pages.)


Offers are going out. That being said, I highly doubt it's a de facto ding. It seems that firms either quickly offer after CB (w/in 5 business days), quickly ding (same timeframe), or put you on hold for weeks/a month or two while they see who declines their offers.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:56 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:0L here with TX roots. Just curious: around what % must you be at UT to secure a V&E houston CB and offer?


There's no secure for a callback. This is an interview, it is not law school admissions where they look at LSAT and GPA and go okay. You need to ace the interview and make a connection and even then some factors are simply out of your control.

That said V&E does seem to be stricter on grades. Meaning if you are below the top 15-20% getting an offer there will probably be very tough/impossible. But while a high GPA is NECESSARY, it is not SUFFICIENT.


This is false, at least for last year. Was probably around top-40 percent and got offers from V&E as well as the other usual suspects. Went 20/24 for biglaw screeners--->offers at UT OCI. No STEM and no significant work experience.

My grades clearly weren't awful, but it cannot be said often enough that just because 25% or whatever get biglaw does not mean the top 25% get biglaw.


Yeah, UT is way, way worse than its rankings should suggest. If you were in a fraternity/sorority, it might work out for you. Otherwise, it is far from uncommon to be in the top quarter or even the top 10% and strike out completely. It's the nature of preselect that favors certain personalities more than a normal lottery system would.

Were I to do it over again, I would probably take even the lower T14 (at least the ones with ready access to NYC) over UT with a full ride. For many law students, Columbia sticker vs. UT full tuition should be no contest. Also, Vanderbilt is better than UT in just about every way, even if you want to work in Texas. I am surprised that out-of-staters even come to UT anymore since I'm sure Vanderbilt matches whatever financial aid UT gives out to nonresidents. Clerkship placement is equal, and big law is about 30% better at Vandy. Basically, you've got Fordham and Vanderbilt, both with better big law placement than UT. No reason to ever attend UT unless you're from Texas, and the legal market here (which is shrinking, despite the myths) is actually worse than the legal market in northern California, which is expanding.

Also, Austin is a death trap with respect to networking. I went to a networking event, and virtually everyone was an engineer who practiced IP. Really, the only type of law practiced here is IP. I was shocked as a 1L when I wasted an entire evening at a school-wide networking event that was comprised solely of IP attorneys -- because that's mostly what you find at places like V&E, BB, Dechert, and Locke Lord (all the major firms) in Austin. At least at Fordham, you can network with people who actually engage in one of the practices available to most law students. Here's hoping 0L's read this and stay away from UT.


Quit being butthurt. Texas firms are not NY firms, the partners and clients don't want to deal with social mutants all the time. Biglaw numbers skew down at UT because of self selection into West and South Texas. Vandy doesn't have a large percentage of its population go practice in backwoods Tennessee.

And Austin is amazing for networking if you are staying in Texas. There is a lot of IP work, but also a ton of litigation, regulatory, lobbying, and o&g work in the city. Several major Texas firms have tailgates for the football games where you can just walk up and have a beer and talk about the Longhorns with the rainmaking partners and their bigtime clients.

Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread, so good luck to everyone. UT Law was a great decision for me and I hope it works out for you.

EDIT: Anon because I think we know each other and you aren't a bad guy and outing me would out you.

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Re: Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:36 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:^^wtf is this shit? Biglaw at Vandy is 30% better? What does that even mean? Sorry if you struck out, but if you had good grades then that's on you. I know many people from the top 1/3 on up with offers around the country. No one is guaranteed anything, but with good grades UT gives you many options.


I'm sure people at many schools top 1/3 and up do well. That's on them. This doesn't change the fact that UT is a worse school than Vanderbilt in just about every way that is relevant to students (faculty reputation is horseshit and isn't important unless you're at HYS trying to go into academia). It's even inferior to Fordham and BU in some ways, including vault firm placement (though UT punches around its weigh on clerkships, which is about the only measure on which UT doesn't drastically under perform its rank).


The academic quality is really high here. Definitely better than Fordham an such. UT is really good if you are a texan that wants to stay in Texas. You pay instate tuition. And according to one partner "UT is the Harvard of Texas.". They ate undoubtedly right. For non texans and those wishing to leave Texas, UT is no better than the other schools. Probably worse. Still those at the top of the class do fine in the job hunt. No matter where they want to go. But you need to be TOP.


Academic quality is only "high" at HYS and possibly Chicago. At every other school, the only thing that matters is job placement. Here, UT is an inferior school to Vanderbilt for anyone who is not from Texas. Given how stingy UT is with scholarship money, UT is sometimes not cost effective vs. Vanderbilt for Texas residents also. Vanderbilt also places slightly better in Texas firms, as does most of the T14 (top third at Michigan w/Texas ties outdoes top 10% at UT every time). There's really little reason for anyone outside of Texas to attend UT. And no, top of the class doesn't guarantee anything, anywhere. If anything, UT is set up so that people at the top of the class have less of an advantage than they do at some other schools that either have public rankings (Emory) or rely more on lottery (Vandy, most of the T14).


How is a lottery system advantageous for those at the top? I really don't know what you're talking about here or where you are getting this information. You are basically making up statistics that are in no way verifiable . Top 1/3 at Michigan out does top 10% at UT for Texas? What? That's almost certainly not true...

Sorry you struck out w/ good grades or whatever, but some of the shit you're saying sounds insane




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