3.6 at Penn (~ top 20%) - bid list critique

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3.6 at Penn (~ top 20%) - bid list critique

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:47 am

Background Info:
K-JD
1L SA position

All firms are NYC
90% sure I want to do transactional work and not litigation

Bid List:

1. Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher
2. Kirkland & Ellis
3. Latham & Watkins
4. Allen & Overy
5. Ropes & Gray
6. Debevoise & Plimpton
7. WilmerHale
8. Linklaters
9. Weil, Gotshal & Manges
10. Sidley Austin
11. Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer
12. Shearman & Sterling
13. Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom
14. Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton
15. Sullivan & Cromwell
16. Willkie Farr & Gallagher
17. Arnold & Porter
18. Simpson Thacher & Bartlett
19. Cravath, Swaine & Moore
20. Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison
21. White & Case
22. Clifford Chance
23. Paul Hastings
24. Cahill Gordon & Reindel
25. Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson
26. Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld
27. Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy
28. Proskauer
29. O'Melveny & [deleted]
30. Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft
31. Davis Polk & Wardwell

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Re: 3.6 at Penn (~ top 20%) - bid list critique

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:20 pm

I'm also at Penn, have essentially the same GPA (+.01 to .03 depending on how you weight certain grades), am focusing on NYC, and my list looks very similar to yours. Curious what others have to say.

Do you think Cravath, S&C, Davis Polk, and STB are attainable at our grade level?
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dpk711
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Re: 3.6 at Penn (~ top 20%) - bid list critique

Postby dpk711 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Do you think Cravath, S&C, Davis Polk, and STB are attainable at our grade level?

Probably all reaches but worth a shot.

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Re: 3.6 at Penn (~ top 20%) - bid list critique

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:26 pm

Top 20% at penn and STB is a reach?

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Re: 3.6 at Penn (~ top 20%) - bid list critique

Postby dpk711 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Top 20% at penn and STB is a reach?

dumb me... sorry misread the quote, STB isn't a reach with a 3.6 from P. Come to think of it, DPW isn't a reach either with those numbers. But of course Cravath and S&C still are.

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Re: 3.6 at Penn (~ top 20%) - bid list critique

Postby rayiner » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:45 pm

dpk711 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Top 20% at penn and STB is a reach?

dumb me... sorry misread the quote, STB isn't a reach with a 3.6 from P. Come to think of it, DPW isn't a reach either with those numbers. But of course Cravath and S&C still are.


Cravath isn't as GPA-selective as S&C at most of the T14. At top 20%, Cravath should be a target. Top 20% should be well within the callback grade range at DPW, but top 20% isn't at the level that's going to guarantee an offer. You'll have to perform at the callback in a way you won't at the other firms.

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Re: 3.6 at Penn (~ top 20%) - bid list critique

Postby run26.2 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:58 pm

rayiner wrote:
dpk711 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Top 20% at penn and STB is a reach?

dumb me... sorry misread the quote, STB isn't a reach with a 3.6 from P. Come to think of it, DPW isn't a reach either with those numbers. But of course Cravath and S&C still are.


Cravath isn't as GPA-selective as S&C at most of the T14. At top 20%, Cravath should be a target. Top 20% should be well within the callback grade range at DPW, but top 20% isn't at the level that's going to guarantee an offer. You'll have to perform at the callback in a way you won't at the other firms.


Actually, Cravath is slightly more selective GPA-wise than S&C at Penn.

You guys should use the data that's provided by CP&P on the Goat. They have charts on there. If you can figure it out, you can create an Excel spreadsheet with a pie chart that will allow you to compare your grades with those of the firms.

I think CSM and S&C will be slight reaches for you. While both gave callbacks to about a quarter of those interviewed, far fewer received offers at CSM. I think STB and Skadden will be more like your targets.

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Re: 3.6 at Penn (~ top 20%) - bid list critique

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:25 pm

dpk711 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Top 20% at penn and STB is a reach?

dumb me... sorry misread the quote, STB isn't a reach with a 3.6 from P. Come to think of it, DPW isn't a reach either with those numbers. But of course Cravath and S&C still are.


Wow, that's surprising. Even though my GPA averages out to roughly a 3.63, my grade distribution doesn't look too similar to the chart provided by CPP for most of the firms mentioned above (fully half my grades are lower than an A-).

Also, I find it hard to believe that at a 3.6, I'm really at t20%. Doesn't that seem like a rather high estimate? I have no idea where these numbers are coming from, but that just doesn't seem right.

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Re: 3.6 at Penn (~ top 20%) - bid list critique

Postby dpk711 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
dpk711 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Top 20% at penn and STB is a reach?

dumb me... sorry misread the quote, STB isn't a reach with a 3.6 from P. Come to think of it, DPW isn't a reach either with those numbers. But of course Cravath and S&C still are.


Wow, that's surprising. Even though my GPA averages out to roughly a 3.63, my grade distribution doesn't look too similar to the chart provided by CPP for most of the firms mentioned above (fully half my grades are lower than an A-).

Also, I find it hard to believe that at a 3.6, I'm really at t20%. Doesn't that seem like a rather high estimate? I have no idea where these numbers are coming from, but that just doesn't seem right.

I believe a 3.6 around the top 20%. Penn's 1L median seems to be slightly lower than 3.3 (not that we have GPAs in the first place, but you know what I mean)

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Re: 3.6 at Penn (~ top 20%) - bid list critique

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:42 pm

rayiner wrote:Cravath isn't as GPA-selective as S&C at most of the T14. At top 20%, Cravath should be a target. Top 20% should be well within the callback grade range at DPW, but top 20% isn't at the level that's going to guarantee an offer. You'll have to perform at the callback in a way you won't at the other firms.

Anecdotally from CCN, DPW seems way more inclined than most other firms to cut people at the CB stage despite a crazy high GPA. So yeah, your callback there has to be very solid even if you've got the grades.

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Re: 3.6 at Penn (~ top 20%) - bid list critique

Postby 5ky » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:22 pm

I think your list is a bit conservative, but fine other than that.

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Re: 3.6 at Penn (~ top 20%) - bid list critique

Postby Veyron » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:45 pm

What is the obsession that top kids at penn have with GDC? I don't understand it.

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Re: 3.6 at Penn (~ top 20%) - bid list critique

Postby drd » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:58 pm

Veyron wrote:What is the obsession that top kids at penn have with GDC? I don't understand it.


I don't get it either. My GPA is slightly higher and I currently have them at 30 (I know I won't get a screener that low, but I just can't bring myself to move them up)

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Re: 3.6 at Penn (~ top 20%) - bid list critique

Postby absolutazn87 » Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:40 pm

Veyron wrote:What is the obsession that top kids at penn have with GDC? I don't understand it.

Is there anything we should know about GDC?

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Re: 3.6 at Penn (~ top 20%) - bid list critique

Postby rayiner » Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:47 pm

Veyron wrote:What is the obsession that top kids at penn have with GDC? I don't understand it.


Tightly run ship with low leverage (1.4:1 in their corporate department versus say 3:1 at Debevoise) and a reportedly good culture. What's not to like?

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Re: 3.6 at Penn (~ top 20%) - bid list critique

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:38 am

Veyron wrote:What is the obsession that top kids at penn have with GDC? I don't understand it.


OP here. Only reason I have them so high is because they have the lowest bid success % out of any of the firms I'm bidding on, so I figured I'd be safe and put them at #1.


Anonymous User wrote:I'm also at Penn, have essentially the same GPA (+.01 to .03 depending on how you weight certain grades), am focusing on NYC, and my list looks very similar to yours. Curious what others have to say.

Do you think Cravath, S&C, Davis Polk, and STB are attainable at our grade level?


Based on the GPA ranges that CP&P provides, I have all 4 of them listed as reaches, but I don't think we're shut out of any of those firms with our GPAs.


Anonymous User wrote:
dpk711 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Top 20% at penn and STB is a reach?

dumb me... sorry misread the quote, STB isn't a reach with a 3.6 from P. Come to think of it, DPW isn't a reach either with those numbers. But of course Cravath and S&C still are.


Wow, that's surprising. Even though my GPA averages out to roughly a 3.63, my grade distribution doesn't look too similar to the chart provided by CPP for most of the firms mentioned above (fully half my grades are lower than an A-).

Also, I find it hard to believe that at a 3.6, I'm really at t20%. Doesn't that seem like a rather high estimate? I have no idea where these numbers are coming from, but that just doesn't seem right.


I got that number based on the fact that previous years' Penn OCI threads estimated top 33% to be around a 3.5, and top 10% to be around a 3.7. I just used the class rank estimator and put in those numbers and got 20% as the estimate. It's probably accurate +/- 3-5% but that's the best we can do with the information we have.

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Re: 3.6 at Penn (~ top 20%) - bid list critique

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:53 am

5ky wrote:I think your list is a bit conservative, but fine other than that.


OP again. I'm curious why you think my list is conservative? My list was way more conservative before talking to CP&P. What do you think I should change? I'm open to suggestions

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Re: 3.6 at Penn (~ top 20%) - bid list critique

Postby alabamabound » Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:45 pm

Take Wilmer off if you want to do transactional. They don't have a sizable practice in NY and aren't hiring for it.

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Re: 3.6 at Penn (~ top 20%) - bid list critique

Postby PennBull » Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:14 am

Besides grade distributions, how did you decide what firms to bid? Did you look up info about the firm to see if they had practice areas you wanted?

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Re: 3.6 at Penn (~ top 20%) - bid list critique

Postby r6_philly » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:02 am

I assume you didn't want to go back to your 1L firm? Did you narrow down the practice area? That will help you filter the firms. I am having a tough time coming up with enough firms to bid on because of my answers to those two questions.

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Re: 3.6 at Penn (~ top 20%) - bid list critique

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:06 pm

r6_philly wrote:I assume you didn't want to go back to your 1L firm? Did you narrow down the practice area? That will help you filter the firms. I am having a tough time coming up with enough firms to bid on because of my answers to those two questions.


yea, I don't want to go back to my 1L firm. Within transactional work, I haven't really figured out what I want to do and haven't gotten a ton of experience doing transactional stuff this summer to have actually figured out specifically which practice area I'd be interested in.

For your situation, you won't know whether you are getting an offer to return to your 1L firm by the time bids are due, so I would just bid assuming you're not getting an offer and then cancel bids if you do get an offer to return
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 3.6 at Penn (~ top 20%) - bid list critique

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:08 pm

alabamabound wrote:Take Wilmer off if you want to do transactional. They don't have a sizable practice in NY and aren't hiring for it.


This true?

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Re: 3.6 at Penn (~ top 20%) - bid list critique

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:44 am

I have ~3.6 also. Do you think I could get interviews with DPW, STB and Cleary ranked 18, 19, 20? They're sort of reaches, so I didn't want to bid them too high, but I really want a chance to interview with them. Not sure how easy it would be to get an interview from stopping by the hospitality suite. If any 3Ls have experience with this I'd love to know how receptive these firms are to that

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Re: 3.6 at Penn (~ top 20%) - bid list critique

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I have ~3.6 also. Do you think I could get interviews with DPW, STB and Cleary ranked 18, 19, 20? They're sort of reaches, so I didn't want to bid them too high, but I really want a chance to interview with them. Not sure how easy it would be to get an interview from stopping by the hospitality suite. If any 3Ls have experience with this I'd love to know how receptive these firms are to that


I also have a 3.6, and was going to ask basically the same question. My guess is that bidding around 20 would give you a decent shot. I mean, DPW and STB have like 100 slots. I doubt a full third of the class will put them in their top 20, but who knows.

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Re: 3.6 at Penn (~ top 20%) - bid list critique

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I have ~3.6 also. Do you think I could get interviews with DPW, STB and Cleary ranked 18, 19, 20? They're sort of reaches, so I didn't want to bid them too high, but I really want a chance to interview with them. Not sure how easy it would be to get an interview from stopping by the hospitality suite. If any 3Ls have experience with this I'd love to know how receptive these firms are to that


I also have a 3.6, and was going to ask basically the same question. My guess is that bidding around 20 would give you a decent shot. I mean, DPW and STB have like 100 slots. I doubt a full third of the class will put them in their top 20, but who knows.


Ya, probably not, but it's hard to tell if people at median are going to be overconfident. I wish we could know at what bid # these firms usually fill up, even an anecdotal story of someone getting them at 25 or not getting them at 15 would help. % doesn't really help if many people are just throwing them in at the bottom of their list since we have so many bids. Also, looking at Cleary's grade chart, for example, it seems like their avg GPA would be around 3.75 (roughly half A, quarter A- and quarter B+), which is way above my GPA (like 3.63). And DPW is even higher. CPP was not so helpful




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