No Offer - Consequences & Solution Forum

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:33 pm

Current summer associate here ...

Basically - If no offer happens - anyone that was in this position, or anybody that has some insight, what should we do if we get a no offer?

Mass mail right after summer program? or what advice would you give?

Or is it basically no offer and big firm work is out of the picture?

I really appreciate it!

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:40 pm

My whole SA class was no-offered. I landed a clerkship, and I received an offer from the firm and many others. I think a competitive clerkship is the best way to aleviate this.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:55 pm

How do you discuss the no-offer in interviews?

Can you get a clerkship with median grades?

09042014 · Post by **09042014** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:58 pm

Checkin' in.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How do you discuss the no-offer in interviews?

Can you get a clerkship with median grades?

Discussing it in interviews is terrible. It was a deal-killer every single time. When I could finally answer that question "yes," interviews got easier.

You can get some clerkship with median grades. The competitiveness of the clerkship depends on the school. Without info on your school range and desired employment, it's hard to tell you what is possible and what the right move is.

Post by **romothesavior** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How do you discuss the no-offer in interviews?

Can you get a clerkship with median grades?
Discussing it in interviews is terrible. It was a deal-killer every single time. When I could finally answer that question "yes," interviews got easier.

Answer what question yes?

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:07 pm

Lower end of T-14 - Looking for NY clerkships, flexible in area... Median with strong upward trend, horrible first semester, strong ever since...

Do you lie when you say "Yes" or how does that work - Because you said once you started saying yes, it got easier.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Lower end of T-14 - Looking for NY clerkships, flexible in area... Median with strong upward trend, horrible first semester, strong ever since...

Do you lie when you say "Yes" or how does that work - Because you said once you started saying yes, it got easier.

I see I was not very clear. I am hung over and not thinking/writing clear. At the end of my SA summer, I was no-offered along with my entire class.

Thereafter, I interviewed with a few big firms, and all of them asked if I had an offer. I told all of them "no."

About 2 months after my no-offer, I landed an AIII clerkship.

About 1 month after landing the AIII clerkship, my SA firm made me an offer.

Now, when I go to interviews and interviewers ask me if I have an offer, I respond "yes."

Re: Lying. This is probably a bad idea, but I know the firm I was an SA at has never been called to verify my "yes" answer.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:59 pm

i would not lie. got an offer 2L firm, did 3L recruiting and got an offer. was told by the recruiter i would get a formal offer letter once they call my 2L firm to confirm i got an offer from them. so at least some firms check.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:21 pm

So, then its basically no-offer, and you are done for big firm work?

Julio_El_Chavo · Post by **Julio_El_Chavo** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Lower end of T-14 - Looking for NY clerkships, flexible in area... Median with strong upward trend, horrible first semester, strong ever since...

Do you lie when you say "Yes" or how does that work - Because you said once you started saying yes, it got easier.

Your chances of getting an AIII clerkship with lower T14 median grades is very remote, even if you have relevant work experience at a firm and strong connections.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:29 pm

How (un)likely is it to get a no offer from an NYC V5?

It has to beyond mere social awkwardness, right? Like objectively bad work product + jumping into the Hudson?

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:30 pm

What about V-50?

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How (un)likely is it to get a no offer from an NYC V5?

It has to beyond mere social awkwardness, right? Like objectively bad work product + jumping into the Hudson?

Pretty much. I did almost no work all summer and got an offer along with the rest of my class-many of whom did very little work and was usually out by 5 everyday

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:39 pm

Can anyone speak to when they received offers? In the exit interview? Few weeks after? Months after?

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What about V-50?

JusticeJackson · Post by **JusticeJackson** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:45 pm

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:28 pm

at my V10 people did some ridiculous things (e.g., blackout drunk at multiple firm events) and still got offers. probably had to do something like tell a partner to "fuck off" to be no offered.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:51 am

Is it very different at a lower ranked firm like V-50, than V10?

Post by **vanwinkle** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:26 am

Anonymous User wrote:Re: Lying. This is probably a bad idea, but I know the firm I was an SA at has never been called to verify my "yes" answer.

If you lie and "get away with it" but get found out later, you can not only be fired by your new employer for it, you can be suspended or disbarred for it. Acts of dishonesty or fraud are swiftly condemned because they raise the most serious questions about a lawyer's ethical integrity. It is a great way to make yourself unemployable.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:33 am

Vanwinkle - I have seen you have lots of insight in your posts....

What do you recommend, if somebody gets no-offer?

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is it very different at a lower ranked firm like V-50, than V10?

I doubt it. I did my 1L at a non-vault, NLJ250 firm and on my last day the partners were telling stories about ridiculous things summers had done and still gotten offers.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is it very different at a lower ranked firm like V-50, than V10?
I doubt it. I did my 1L at a non-vault, NLJ250 firm and on my last day the partners were telling stories about ridiculous things summers had done and still gotten offers.

Whats worse: Doing something stupid at an event, or getting a bad review?

Post by **vanwinkle** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Vanwinkle - I have seen you have lots of insight in your posts....

What do you recommend, if somebody gets no-offer?

Everything, as long as it isn't illegal or unethical. There is no one "better" thing to do; at that point you need a job and one that will open doors down the road. Chase clerkships, do 3L OCI, mass-mail, apply for fellowships, just do it all.

However, getting no-offered is pretty difficult right now. No firm wants to be the next Latham in terms of reputation when recruiting; a lot of firms have dramatically shrunk their SA class sizes so that they don't need to no-offer anyone. Unless your firm is on the verge of failing, you're not doing your work assignments, or you mistook a partner's coffee mug for a urinal, you're in decent shape.

The best way to deal with being no-offered is to not get no-offered, so just work hard and avoid giving them specific reasons to reject you.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:00 pm

v15. totally botched up one assignment realllly bad. prob forced the attorney to spend all night fixing it. so bad, that he actually gave me an awful review (i know b/c it was brought up during my exit review). still got offer. granted, my other reviews were excellent, it was just this one assignment i f'ed up

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