UTexas trying for NY

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nonprofit-prophet
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Re: UTexas trying for NY

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:18 am

Anonymous User wrote:
nonprofit-prophet wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:It definitely is not as low as 3.73. I know of many people with 3.7-3.8 who did not make law review while I know of only 1 or 2 with higher than a 3.8 who didn't. While they say there is no grading onto law review, you have to go out of your way in writing a shitty essay not to make it on if you are in the top 10%.


Does anyone know how they weigh the write-on and your GPA? The recent grads I know said they were unsure, but that they knew one or two super high GPAs that didn't make it. A partner that graduated 10+ years ago told me that it's 10-90, but it might be different today.


10% is reserved for strictly write-on. The other 90% they say is a mix of write-on and grades, but as was said, you reallllllly have to screw up the write-on to get dinged if you are in the top 10%.


Right, but there is a formula for that 90%. From what I've been told, there is a spreadsheet where they plug in your GPA and your write on score and that gives you a final overall score. My question was whether anyone knew the weighting. What you've seen seems to be in line with what a partner told me, 90% GPA and 10% write on score. Then again, a more recent grad said he didn't know for sure, but thought it was closer to 70-30.

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Re: UTexas trying for NY

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:24 am

If you have high grades, not being on Law Review won't harm you. It isn't something that really is discussed during interviews either as you haven't even started by the time you are interviewed. Honestly, I know many people who wish they had never made the commitment. If you aren't gunning for a clerkship (where it is very important) it is a giant waste of time.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: UTexas trying for NY

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:25 am

Perseus_I wrote:Is Law Review really necessary to get a Big Law job at UT though? It seems like every OCI firm asks for it or says it's "preferred." Also, it seems that just about every large firm I've looked at with UT alums claims they were on Law Review. Scary.


Not at all. I know plenty of people not on law review who got big law in Texas and outside of Texas.

de5igual
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Re: UTexas trying for NY

Postby de5igual » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:52 am

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
Perseus_I wrote:Is Law Review really necessary to get a Big Law job at UT though? It seems like every OCI firm asks for it or says it's "preferred." Also, it seems that just about every large firm I've looked at with UT alums claims they were on Law Review. Scary.


Not at all. I know plenty of people not on law review who got big law in Texas and outside of Texas.


+1

I'd say law review only matters for the most elite types of jobs (e.g., fed clerkships, and even then, being on a secondary as opposed to LR doesn't totally sink you either). Not even NYC V5 requires law review. Ultimately, all that matters is your GPA and your interview. The "requirements" on Symplicity are completely meaningless and have no correlation with what the firms are looking for. Some firms go higher than what they state; most others go much lower.

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Re: UTexas trying for NY

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:55 am

Perseus_I wrote:
Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
nonprofit-prophet wrote:
Cade McNown wrote:--LinkRemoved--
I think y'all got it backwards re: class rank & grades. Grades go up as the semesters pass, b/c only 2Ls and 3Ls are eligible for seminars, which often (always?) aren't on the curve. So since top 10% is ~3.76 @ graduation, it should be slightly lower after 1L, maybe 3.73ish.

For UT interested in NY, I would reiterate: NY Job Fair.


UT really needs to give out more info. My friends on law review claim 3.8 is top 10% for 1L. But I don't think they know for sure.


I'm under the impression that it's around 3.8, with a better chance that it's a little lower than a 3.8 than higher (so maybe something like 3.78/3.79). It's pretty difficult to say for certain since there really is no way of knowing for each individual class since there will be some variation year to year. I can say that I know some people who were in the mid to high 3.7s after 1L who missed on law review, though I don't know if it was b/c they didn't have a strong write-in. Most of the people I know on TLR have a 3.8+, but it's not really something everyone talks about.


Is Law Review really necessary to get a Big Law job at UT though? It seems like every OCI firm asks for it or says it's "preferred." Also, it seems that just about every large firm I've looked at with UT alums claims they were on Law Review. Scary.

UT places 20% of the class in BigLaw... if the top 10% is nearly a lock for LR (as stated above), it would make sense that most BigLaw alums were on law review. But the correlation is likely about grades (high grades = BigLaw possibility, high grades = LR), rather than a rigid requirement that one be on LR to get BigLaw.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: UTexas trying for NY

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:15 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Perseus_I wrote:Is Law Review really necessary to get a Big Law job at UT though? It seems like every OCI firm asks for it or says it's "preferred." Also, it seems that just about every large firm I've looked at with UT alums claims they were on Law Review. Scary.

UT places 20% of the class in BigLaw... if the top 10% is nearly a lock for LR (as stated above), it would make sense that most BigLaw alums were on law review. But the correlation is likely about grades (high grades = BigLaw possibility, high grades = LR), rather than a rigid requirement that one be on LR to get BigLaw.


It's more like 35%-40% in biglaw (you need to account for Art. III clerkships).

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Re: UTexas trying for NY

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:34 am

Susman preselected my friend (3.8x) and then asked him during his interview why he wasn't on law review.

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Re: UTexas trying for NY

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:42 am

Susman is notoriously snobby though. How did your friend end up faring with other firms?

I ask because I have a 3.84 and did not submit to the write on competition. I'm already on a secondary journal and just wasnt interested in it. I also didn't think my grades would be this high when the write on happened. I've been kicking myself since I got my grades back though, b/c I would have been a lock. Hope this doesn't hurt me too bad...

de5igual
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Re: UTexas trying for NY

Postby de5igual » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:51 am

Anonymous User wrote:Susman is notoriously snobby though. How did your friend end up faring with other firms?

I ask because I have a 3.84 and did not submit to the write on competition. I'm already on a secondary journal and just wasnt interested in it. I also didn't think my grades would be this high when the write on happened. I've been kicking myself since I got my grades back though, b/c I would have been a lock. Hope this doesn't hurt me too bad...


Depends on your goals. Clerkships? Yeah...it might impact that process. Biglaw? Not at all.

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Re: UTexas trying for NY

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:55 am

f0bolous wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Susman is notoriously snobby though. How did your friend end up faring with other firms?

I ask because I have a 3.84 and did not submit to the write on competition. I'm already on a secondary journal and just wasnt interested in it. I also didn't think my grades would be this high when the write on happened. I've been kicking myself since I got my grades back though, b/c I would have been a lock. Hope this doesn't hurt me too bad...


Depends on your goals. Clerkships? Yeah...it might impact that process. Biglaw? Not at all.


Not into clerkships at all really. Want biglaw, preferably in NY or LA

de5igual
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Re: UTexas trying for NY

Postby de5igual » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:11 am

Anonymous User wrote:
f0bolous wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Susman is notoriously snobby though. How did your friend end up faring with other firms?

I ask because I have a 3.84 and did not submit to the write on competition. I'm already on a secondary journal and just wasnt interested in it. I also didn't think my grades would be this high when the write on happened. I've been kicking myself since I got my grades back though, b/c I would have been a lock. Hope this doesn't hurt me too bad...


Depends on your goals. Clerkships? Yeah...it might impact that process. Biglaw? Not at all.


Not into clerkships at all really. Want biglaw, preferably in NY or LA


Definitely won't be an issue as long as you have the grades. We have people on my secondary doing V5s.

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Re: UTexas trying for NY

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:14 am

f0bolous wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
f0bolous wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Susman is notoriously snobby though. How did your friend end up faring with other firms?

I ask because I have a 3.84 and did not submit to the write on competition. I'm already on a secondary journal and just wasnt interested in it. I also didn't think my grades would be this high when the write on happened. I've been kicking myself since I got my grades back though, b/c I would have been a lock. Hope this doesn't hurt me too bad...


Depends on your goals. Clerkships? Yeah...it might impact that process. Biglaw? Not at all.


Not into clerkships at all really. Want biglaw, preferably in NY or LA


Definitely won't be an issue as long as you have the grades. We have people on my secondary doing V5s.


cool...that makes me feel better. I feel like my grades would get me in most places, but I"ve been insecure about def. not having TLR. Hopefully this will turn out well and I'll get a biglaw job and not have to slave away on TLR...

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Re: UTexas trying for NY

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:31 am

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Perseus_I wrote:Is Law Review really necessary to get a Big Law job at UT though? It seems like every OCI firm asks for it or says it's "preferred." Also, it seems that just about every large firm I've looked at with UT alums claims they were on Law Review. Scary.

UT places 20% of the class in BigLaw... if the top 10% is nearly a lock for LR (as stated above), it would make sense that most BigLaw alums were on law review. But the correlation is likely about grades (high grades = BigLaw possibility, high grades = LR), rather than a rigid requirement that one be on LR to get BigLaw.


It's more like 35%-40% in biglaw (you need to account for Art. III clerkships).

20% in Article III clerkships.... you're joking right...?

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Re: UTexas trying for NY

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:19 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Perseus_I wrote:Is Law Review really necessary to get a Big Law job at UT though? It seems like every OCI firm asks for it or says it's "preferred." Also, it seems that just about every large firm I've looked at with UT alums claims they were on Law Review. Scary.

UT places 20% of the class in BigLaw... if the top 10% is nearly a lock for LR (as stated above), it would make sense that most BigLaw alums were on law review. But the correlation is likely about grades (high grades = BigLaw possibility, high grades = LR), rather than a rigid requirement that one be on LR to get BigLaw.


It's more like 35%-40% in biglaw (you need to account for Art. III clerkships).

20% in Article III clerkships.... you're joking right...?


All we know for sure is that 18% of UT grads make at least $93,000/year, and 7% get Article III clerkships. Beyond that, everything else is dubious.

18% in high-pay jobs + 7% in Article III clerkships (c/o 2011). This means about 25% could potentially get Big Law - but not necessarily the "top 25%" because you have other things like Daddy has money, IP law, or diversity hires affecting the hiring process. Never underestimate the power of connections in Texas (or any deep South state).

One thing I'd like to see on lawschooltransparency.com is an exact breakdown of the GPA's of all graduates in the system in scattergraph form - with a separate graph for each category of job (similar to lawschoolnumbers.com)

de5igual
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Re: UTexas trying for NY

Postby de5igual » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:34 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Perseus_I wrote:Is Law Review really necessary to get a Big Law job at UT though? It seems like every OCI firm asks for it or says it's "preferred." Also, it seems that just about every large firm I've looked at with UT alums claims they were on Law Review. Scary.

UT places 20% of the class in BigLaw... if the top 10% is nearly a lock for LR (as stated above), it would make sense that most BigLaw alums were on law review. But the correlation is likely about grades (high grades = BigLaw possibility, high grades = LR), rather than a rigid requirement that one be on LR to get BigLaw.


It's more like 35%-40% in biglaw (you need to account for Art. III clerkships).

20% in Article III clerkships.... you're joking right...?


20% NLJ was c/o 2011, which was the rock bottom. For c/o 2010, which is probably closer to the current climate (meaning objectively shitty, but overall not that bad), around 30% got biglaw (firm size of 100+) and another 10% or so got an Art III clerkship.

de5igual
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Re: UTexas trying for NY

Postby de5igual » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:38 am

Anonymous User wrote:All we know for sure is that 18% of UT grads make at least $93,000/year, and 7% get Article III clerkships. Beyond that, everything else is dubious.

18% in high-pay jobs + 7% in Article III clerkships (c/o 2011). This means about 25% could potentially get Big Law - but not necessarily the "top 25%" because you have other things like Daddy has money, IP law, or diversity hires affecting the hiring process. Never underestimate the power of connections in Texas (or any deep South state).

One thing I'd like to see on lawschooltransparency.com is an exact breakdown of the GPA's of all graduates in the system in scattergraph form - with a separate graph for each category of job (similar to lawschoolnumbers.com)


even the c/o 2011 isn't as dire as you make it seem. Around 24% got biglaw + 7% Art III, pushing the number to 31%. Yes, it's still bad, but the extra 6% at a school the size of UT is pretty significant.

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Re: UTexas trying for NY

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:41 am

Without salary information, NLJ 250 numbers are dubious. Some NLJ 250 firms outsource contract and temp work to recent grads at slave wages while others have non-partner track positions that pay around $40,000-$50,000 a year. The only thing I would trust is accurate salary information. Here, all we know is that 18% make a decent salary according to lawschooltransparency.com.

de5igual
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Re: UTexas trying for NY

Postby de5igual » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:46 am

Anonymous User wrote:Without salary information, NLJ 250 numbers are dubious. Some NLJ 250 firms outsource contract and temp work to recent grads at slave wages while others have non-partner track positions that pay around $40,000-$50,000 a year. The only thing I would trust is accurate salary information. Here, all we know is that 18% make a decent salary according to lawschooltransparency.com.


I'm not sure where the 18% number's from (all I see on LST is firms of 500+ at 17.5%). if you work in a contracting position, then you wouldn't be working for a "firm," so it wouldn't be included in that figure. while the non-partner track positions might exist, those positions aren't as common as you think.

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Re: UTexas trying for NY

Postby de5igual » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:50 am

Anonymous User wrote:18% in high-pay jobs + 7% in Article III clerkships (c/o 2011). This means about 25% could potentially get Big Law - but not necessarily the "top 25%" because you have other things like Daddy has money, IP law, or diversity hires affecting the hiring process. Never underestimate the power of connections in Texas (or any deep South state).


Yes, you also have things like "interview skills" which distorts the number. When people with higher GPAs strike out, it's usually because of shitty interview skills as opposed to an IP/diversity/whatever "taking away" the position.

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Re: UTexas trying for NY

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:40 am

In the last few years I think UT has sent people to every V5 except Wachtell. I'm pretty sure most (all?) of these firms took people not on Law Review.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: UTexas trying for NY

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Perseus_I wrote:Is Law Review really necessary to get a Big Law job at UT though? It seems like every OCI firm asks for it or says it's "preferred." Also, it seems that just about every large firm I've looked at with UT alums claims they were on Law Review. Scary.

UT places 20% of the class in BigLaw... if the top 10% is nearly a lock for LR (as stated above), it would make sense that most BigLaw alums were on law review. But the correlation is likely about grades (high grades = BigLaw possibility, high grades = LR), rather than a rigid requirement that one be on LR to get BigLaw.


It's more like 35%-40% in biglaw (you need to account for Art. III clerkships).

20% in Article III clerkships.... you're joking right...?


I should have been more clear: your 20% biglaw is not very accurate for the current class AND you're not accounting for clerkships.

Better?

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Re: UTexas trying for NY

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:18 pm

Is Law Review really necessary to get a Big Law job at UT though? It seems like every OCI firm asks for it or says it's "preferred." Also, it seems that just about every large firm I've looked at with UT alums claims they were on Law Review. Scary
UT places 20% of the class in BigLaw... if the top 10% is nearly a lock for LR (as stated above), it would make sense that most BigLaw alums were on law review. But the correlation is likely about grades (high grades = BigLaw possibility, high grades = LR), rather than a rigid requirement that one be on LR to get BigLaw.
I should have been more clear: your 20% biglaw is not very accurate for the current class AND you're not accounting for clerkships.

Better?


lawschooltransparency.com wrote for C/O 2010:

We know that at least 32.1% of this school's graduates made $93,500 or more


lawschooltransparency.com also wrote:

Federal clerkships: 10.5%


Therefore, according to my calculation, about 42.6% of UT graduates do alright. I have no idea if there are jobs out there that pay more than $90,000/year that are not Big Law. I don't think this is a bad thing if there are. I know if there are such jobs, many of us would love to have them. At any rate, 43% is a baseline of graduates for whom, we can be pretty sure, law school worked out.

Now, the class of 2011 did much worse. I am not sure about the Class of 2014. Maybe similar to 2010?

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Re: UTexas trying for NY

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:23 pm

FWIW I was told by CSO that there are 400 more interview slots at OCI this year than last year. Also, that a lot of the firms have switched to firmer language at lower rankings levels (instead of "Top 25% preferred" expect to see "Top 35% Required").

de5igual
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Re: UTexas trying for NY

Postby de5igual » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:23 am

Anonymous User wrote:FWIW I was told by CSO that there are 400 more interview slots at OCI this year than last year. Also, that a lot of the firms have switched to firmer language at lower rankings levels (instead of "Top 25% preferred" expect to see "Top 35% Required").


regardless of what they put down, it's still utterly meaningless.

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Re: UTexas trying for NY

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:59 am

f0bolous wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:FWIW I was told by CSO that there are 400 more interview slots at OCI this year than last year. Also, that a lot of the firms have switched to firmer language at lower rankings levels (instead of "Top 25% preferred" expect to see "Top 35% Required").


regardless of what they put down, it's still utterly meaningless.


From an absolute standpoint, clearly. However, from a relative standpoint, if they actually changed it this year, this could signify something.




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