3L Hiring for People w/ 2L SAs (advice needed)

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 273425
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

3L Hiring for People w/ 2L SAs (advice needed)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:23 pm

I'm hoping to get some input from people who have been in the position of having an offer at a good firm and deciding to (or not to) go through the 3L hiring process and why. I am trying to decide whether it is worth attempting to trade up from V25 to improve exit options (not for prestige's sake). I like my current firm, and I have started to form relationships there and also learn the ropes of their document storage system, research system, etc. I would likely be in a practice group in the current firm that is its premier practice group. I go to CCN, median grades first year, at least top 25% 2L year, a couple good softs, mediocre interviewer.

I also have some questions about the 3L hiring process. First, timing...if we (hopefully, fingers crossed) get offers at the end of the summer program in late July/early August and they're only open 28 days, are firms we're interviewing with willing to make a decision fast? I heard that they wait to do 3L hiring until 2L hiring is done, which obviously wouldn't work for people with offers expiring in late August. Also, do people mass-mail for 3L hiring and, if so, when do they start? It seems like it might be good to start mass-mailing in late July and then try to get callbacks in in early August to give the firms plenty of time to decide before your offer expires.

It'd be great if someone who had gone through this process recently could give a narrative of how it went and what s/he did.

I feel a little guilty even contemplating this because of loyalty to my current firm, but I know that they wouldn't hesitate to no-offer us if need be, and I want to do what is best for my career.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273425
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 3L Hiring for People w/ 2L SAs (advice needed)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:49 pm

i was in a similar position. i traded up from a v25 to a v5. im not gonna lie, one reason was for the prestige/exit options. another reason though, was that i didn't really like my firm and felt almost no loyalty to them. i was at a huge firm so it wasn't hard to find people i clicked with, but a few people on my floor just really rubbed me the wrong way. thus, i felt pretty indifferent towards my firm. so, i figured i might as well trade up as i have nothing to lose. if i don't like my new place at least i would have the prestige/exit options to fall back on, and i didn't really like my old firm so it felt like a no lose situation. i don't want to get into an argument whether one should or should not look at prestige, but i admit it's important to me and thus im glad i traded up.

getting used to the firm's document system is not a reason to stay at the firm. most likely you will stay at the firm for 2-4 years. a document system takes maybe 3 weeks to master. you should not base a decision that will have repercussions based on 3 years of your life (maybe more if you consider exit options) on 3 weeks of a little added stress. laterals and 3Ls join new firms all the time. they meet people and build relationships just fine. also, while those relationship's you're building now feel close, they will no doubt deteriorate once you leave, as you won't see anyone for a full year (maybe not completely, but they definitely will), so its not like the 2Ls who are returning to their firms are just going to be picking up right where they left off from. hell, im sure most of them won't even remember their doc system. they were only there for 10 weeks. so as a new 3L you won't be THAT far behind.

it terms of process, i relied upon 3L oci and mass mails (i am also CCN btw). 3L oci was much more successful, but i did get a few bites through mass mailing. i waited until i had an offer in hand before sending out apps. i dont know of all firms wait till they are done with 2L recruiting, but the sooner the better, so just send apps out right when you have your offer and let the firms worry about the timeline.

judging on your post i would recommend you go ahead with it. you don't have to accept any offers if you get them (and btw its not easy getting offers, i know a lot of 3Ls who had 2L offers struck out). however, i think now you're mind is a little biased since you're still at your firm. send out apps, go to interviews, and in the 2-3 months after you've been away from your firm and all your new friends you will be able to make a more clear decision. its ok to reject a 3L offer (i did). you have nothing to lose so you might as well apply and if you change you're mind that's fine.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273425
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 3L Hiring for People w/ 2L SAs (advice needed)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:First, timing...if we (hopefully, fingers crossed) get offers at the end of the summer program in late July/early August and they're only open 28 days, are firms we're interviewing with willing to make a decision fast? I heard that they wait to do 3L hiring until 2L hiring is done, which obviously wouldn't work for people with offers expiring in late August.

Timing is different for 3L offers - NALP standard is until Nov. 1, not 28 days. Firms following NALP will give you plenty of time to accept your full-time offer, although you'll obviously look like you're trying to land another firm if you do 3L recruiting, fail to land something, and finally accept your firm's offer on October 25.

Anonymous User wrote:Also, do people mass-mail for 3L hiring and, if so, when do they start? It seems like it might be good to start mass-mailing in late July and then try to get callbacks in in early August to give the firms plenty of time to decide before your offer expires.

I went from a V50 to V10, but my transition was practice-area specific. My summer firm (which I liked a lot) didn't really practice what I wanted long-term, but the firm I went to is top-notch at that specific practice. It made it pretty easy to sell my interest in the new firm, but I would have been comfortable with my summer firm if the recruiting process didn't pan out.

As for timing, I sent out mass mails after receiving my offer (on the last day of my summer program) based on the recommendation of my school's OCS. It's possible to send them out before the end of summer while you're still in the city to interview (if that's a concern), but my primary concern was with landing the summer offer and not doing anything to jeopardize it before I received it. It is true that many firms seem to focus on 3L recruiting after 2L recruiting - I sent out my applications in early August and didn't receive my callbacks (1 V15, 1 V10) until late September. During that time, I worked to establish connections with alums at the firm I was most interested in, and they were fantastic about getting my name on the top of the 3L pile. I'll be starting there this fall.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273425
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 3L Hiring for People w/ 2L SAs (advice needed)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:i was in a similar position. i traded up from a v25 to a v5.... (i am also CCN btw).


what were your grades 1L and 2L year? did you interview with V5-10 as a rising 2L?

Anonymous User wrote:As for timing, I sent out mass mails after receiving my offer (on the last day of my summer program) based on the recommendation of my school's OCS. It's possible to send them out before the end of summer while you're still in the city to interview (if that's a concern), but my primary concern was with landing the summer offer and not doing anything to jeopardize it before I received it. It is true that many firms seem to focus on 3L recruiting after 2L recruiting - I sent out my applications in early August and didn't receive my callbacks (1 V15, 1 V10) until late September. During that time, I worked to establish connections with alums at the firm I was most interested in, and they were fantastic about getting my name on the top of the 3L pile. I'll be starting there this fall.


so was it awkward with your 2L firm that you did not accept right away?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273425
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 3L Hiring for People w/ 2L SAs (advice needed)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:As for timing, I sent out mass mails after receiving my offer (on the last day of my summer program) based on the recommendation of my school's OCS. It's possible to send them out before the end of summer while you're still in the city to interview (if that's a concern), but my primary concern was with landing the summer offer and not doing anything to jeopardize it before I received it. It is true that many firms seem to focus on 3L recruiting after 2L recruiting - I sent out my applications in early August and didn't receive my callbacks (1 V15, 1 V10) until late September. During that time, I worked to establish connections with alums at the firm I was most interested in, and they were fantastic about getting my name on the top of the 3L pile. I'll be starting there this fall.


so was it awkward with your 2L firm that you did not accept right away?

Not really. They reached out to me and asked if I had any questions before accepting the offer, and they were all incredibly nice when I told them I was going elsewhere (and told me I would be welcome back any time, etc.). They were just great people like that.

I imagine it would've been slightly more awkward accepting towards the tail end of the window and going back to the firm, though, since it'd be pretty obvious I was looking to head elsewhere.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273425
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 3L Hiring for People w/ 2L SAs (advice needed)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:i was in a similar position. i traded up from a v25 to a v5.... (i am also CCN btw).


what were your grades 1L and 2L year? did you interview with V5-10 as a rising 2L?

Anonymous User wrote:As for timing, I sent out mass mails after receiving my offer (on the last day of my summer program) based on the recommendation of my school's OCS. It's possible to send them out before the end of summer while you're still in the city to interview (if that's a concern), but my primary concern was with landing the summer offer and not doing anything to jeopardize it before I received it. It is true that many firms seem to focus on 3L recruiting after 2L recruiting - I sent out my applications in early August and didn't receive my callbacks (1 V15, 1 V10) until late September. During that time, I worked to establish connections with alums at the firm I was most interested in, and they were fantastic about getting my name on the top of the 3L pile. I'll be starting there this fall.


so was it awkward with your 2L firm that you did not accept right away?


first anon poster here. my grades 1L were pretty good. maybe top 15-20%. i was competitive for v5 but chose the v25 because i thought it was a better fit. which is another reason i don't feel bad about trading up. wouldn't say i feel tricked by my 2L firm, but it definitely wasn't what i was expecting it to be based on my callbacks. just goes to show you, you cant really judge a firm until you have worked there for some time. my grades 2L year dropped a little. prob brought me down to top third. didn't get any B- or anything but got way more B+ than i did first year and fewer grades in the A range.

not accepting immediately is kinda awkward btw. most kids don't accept right away, but no one waits 2 months like i did. its obvious you're shopping their offer around, but w/e they wont revoke it or anything. calling my partner from 2L firm telling him im rejecting the offer is also awkward, but w/e (i called the partner b/c he was the one who gave me the offer, thought it was more professional to call him than hr). its not like a firm wont fire you just to avoid an awkward situation

Anonymous User
Posts: 273425
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 3L Hiring for People w/ 2L SAs (advice needed)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:14 pm

can anyone comment who interviewed 3L year and struck out and then wen back months later and accepted their 2L firm's offer? mainly, did it change the way the people at the firm treated you?




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.