Less selective DC firms

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jessuf
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Less selective DC firms

Postby jessuf » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:14 pm

So I really want to remain in DC post-graduation. As I'm a transfer, the CSO told me my bidding strategy should be conservative and include only firms who hired GULC SA's with GPAs between 3.0 and 3.5, where GULC's median is about 3.3. Are the following listed firms/offices considered to be less selective? Any you would take off or add? According to GULC, the median hiring GPA for a 2L SA was between 3.0 and 3.5 for all of these firms/offices.

Akin Gump
Alston & Bird
Arent Fox
Baker & Hostetler
Bingham McCutchen
Bryan Cave
Cadwalader
Chadbourne & Park
Clifford Chance
Dechert
Dickstein Shapiro
DLA Piper
Foley & Lardner
Fulbright & Jaworski
Holland & Knight
Hollingsworth
Hughes Hubbard
Jones Day
K&L Gates
Keller & Heckman
King & Spaulding
McKenna Long & Aldridge
Milbank
Morgan Lewis
Nixon Peabody
Patton Boggs
Pillsbury Winthrop
Powers Pyles
Reed Smith
Sheppard Mullin
Sutherland Asbill
Venable
Weil Gotshal

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donniedarko
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Re: Less selective DC firms

Postby donniedarko » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:22 pm

good thread Jessuf, I don't have any answers but had the same question...

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koalatriste
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Re: Less selective DC firms

Postby koalatriste » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:24 pm

with the exception of akin gump, does any of these firms have a summer class size of above, say, 5?

that's a bit of an exaggeration, but realize that you are competing for VERY few SA spots here. the bottom line is that the cards are stacked against you as a GULC transfer (in re: getting a biglaw job), so I would recommend focusing on large NY firms that arent that selective and HUSTLING. if you're not concerned about getting an SA, this is a fine list of firms to strike out with.

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jessuf
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Re: Less selective DC firms

Postby jessuf » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:35 pm

koalatriste wrote:with the exception of akin gump, does any of these firms have a summer class size of above, say, 5?

that's a bit of an exaggeration, but realize that you are competing for VERY few SA spots here. the bottom line is that the cards are stacked against you as a GULC transfer (in re: getting a biglaw job), so I would recommend focusing on large NY firms that arent that selective and HUSTLING. if you're not concerned about getting an SA, this is a fine list of firms to strike out with.


Good point. Most are around 7.

For GULC students who are interested, the biggest class sizes in this range are:
Akin Gump - 17
Jones Day - 18
Sutherland Asbill - 13
Venable - 13

So for the most part, pretty small class sizes.

I made this thread because I really want DC for personal reasons. I will of course bid on mostly NYC firms, but I would like to know where I'd have the best shot of getting a CB at in DC to maximize my chances of staying in the area. Being a transfer makes figuring out bids pretty much impossible because I don't know how my top 1% translates into a GULC ranking.

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jessuf
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Re: Less selective DC firms

Postby jessuf » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:39 pm

I would ideally like to have a few DC firms that I could rank highly on my bid list, then mostly rely on mass mail for the other firms and hope I will get something.

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koalatriste
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Re: Less selective DC firms

Postby koalatriste » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:45 pm

Jessuf wrote:
koalatriste wrote:with the exception of akin gump, does any of these firms have a summer class size of above, say, 5?

that's a bit of an exaggeration, but realize that you are competing for VERY few SA spots here. the bottom line is that the cards are stacked against you as a GULC transfer (in re: getting a biglaw job), so I would recommend focusing on large NY firms that arent that selective and HUSTLING. if you're not concerned about getting an SA, this is a fine list of firms to strike out with.


Good point. Most are around 7.

For GULC students who are interested, the biggest class sizes in this range are:
Akin Gump - 17
Jones Day - 18
Sutherland Asbill - 13
Venable - 13


So for the most part, pretty small class sizes.

I made this thread because I really want DC for personal reasons. I will of course bid on mostly NYC firms, but I would like to know where I'd have the best shot of getting a CB at in DC to maximize my chances of staying in the area. Being a transfer makes figuring out bids pretty much impossible because I don't know how my top 1% translates into a GULC ranking.


Jessuf wrote:I would ideally like to have a few DC firms that I could rank highly on my bid list, then mostly rely on mass mail for the other firms and hope I will get something.


i think you answered your own query. see above. i'd probably avoid JD, as i'm sure they are at the higher end of the 3.0-3.5 range.

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Re: Less selective DC firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:49 pm

koalatriste wrote:
i think you answered your own query. see above. i'd probably avoid JD, as i'm sure they are at the higher end of the 3.0-3.5 range.


I was top 10% + LR and didn't get a CB there last year. That doesn't mean that you have no chance at getting a job there, but I wouldn't think of JD as one of the unselective firms in DC. I wouldn't waste a high bid on them.

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jessuf
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Re: Less selective DC firms

Postby jessuf » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
koalatriste wrote:
i think you answered your own query. see above. i'd probably avoid JD, as i'm sure they are at the higher end of the 3.0-3.5 range.


I was top 10% + LR and didn't get a CB there last year. That doesn't mean that you have no chance at getting a job there, but I wouldn't think of JD as one of the unselective firms in DC. I wouldn't waste a high bid on them.


Ok, thanks for this!

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koalatriste
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Re: Less selective DC firms

Postby koalatriste » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
koalatriste wrote:
i think you answered your own query. see above. i'd probably avoid JD, as i'm sure they are at the higher end of the 3.0-3.5 range.


I was top 10% + LR and didn't get a CB there last year. That doesn't mean that you have no chance at getting a job there, but I wouldn't think of JD as one of the unselective firms in DC. I wouldn't waste a high bid on them.


indeed, keep in mind that when you factor in URM status/impressive work experience/connections/everything else random other than GPA that matters in getting a job, firms are generally more selective than they appear. additionally, firms can just be really, really picky with these small class sizes (especially in DC).

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Re: Less selective DC firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:54 pm

Jessuf wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
koalatriste wrote:
i think you answered your own query. see above. i'd probably avoid JD, as i'm sure they are at the higher end of the 3.0-3.5 range.


I was top 10% + LR and didn't get a CB there last year. That doesn't mean that you have no chance at getting a job there, but I wouldn't think of JD as one of the unselective firms in DC. I wouldn't waste a high bid on them.


Ok, thanks for this!


I would, however, use one of your high bids on Akin. It's not that they're unselective, but they are popular so you will need to bid them high to get an interview. And you probably have a shot at a job there if you interview well, but with transfers it's always a crapshoot.

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donniedarko
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Re: Less selective DC firms

Postby donniedarko » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:00 pm

What else would you recommend a GULC transfer use a high bid on? (Assuming wanting to stay in DC and realizing its a crap shoot)

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Re: Less selective DC firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:03 pm

donniedarko wrote:What else would you recommend a GULC transfer use a high bid on? (Assuming wanting to stay in DC and realizing its a crap shoot)


whichever of those firms (not jones day) that has the highest class sizes. Also, look at the stats OCS links you to. You can kind of tell how popular each firm is from those. Maybe some of them have less name recognition (Sutherland) and aren't as popular and you can steal an interview with them with an outside the top 10 bid.

Seriously though, if you want a job, you need to shoot for NY as well. I know multiple people who are headed to V10s in NY who actually wanted a job down here but struck out.

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donniedarko
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Re: Less selective DC firms

Postby donniedarko » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:06 pm

wow.. tnx

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Re: Less selective DC firms

Postby donniedarko » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:09 pm

Not sure if this is a valid question, but to your knowledge, do certain NY firms seem more GULC friendly than others?

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Re: Less selective DC firms

Postby donniedarko » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:10 pm

Sorry Jessuf, I sort of hijacked your thread :-P

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Re: Less selective DC firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:18 pm

koalatriste wrote:
Jessuf wrote:
koalatriste wrote:with the exception of akin gump, does any of these firms have a summer class size of above, say, 5?

that's a bit of an exaggeration, but realize that you are competing for VERY few SA spots here. the bottom line is that the cards are stacked against you as a GULC transfer (in re: getting a biglaw job), so I would recommend focusing on large NY firms that arent that selective and HUSTLING. if you're not concerned about getting an SA, this is a fine list of firms to strike out with.


Good point. Most are around 7.

For GULC students who are interested, the biggest class sizes in this range are:
Akin Gump - 17
Jones Day - 18
Sutherland Asbill - 13
Venable - 13


So for the most part, pretty small class sizes.

I made this thread because I really want DC for personal reasons. I will of course bid on mostly NYC firms, but I would like to know where I'd have the best shot of getting a CB at in DC to maximize my chances of staying in the area. Being a transfer makes figuring out bids pretty much impossible because I don't know how my top 1% translates into a GULC ranking.


Jessuf wrote:I would ideally like to have a few DC firms that I could rank highly on my bid list, then mostly rely on mass mail for the other firms and hope I will get something.


i think you answered your own query. see above. i'd probably avoid JD, as i'm sure they are at the higher end of the 3.0-3.5 range.

Don't self-select away from Jones Day if you think you would be a good fit. Because of their unique culture (general partnership, one-firm-worldwide, confidential compensation, etc.) they tend to be more concerned with fit than GPA. Last summer, we had a few from GULC and at least one from the PT program. Another in our class was a TTTT transfer to MVPB. Not sure their GPAs though. I was around median from MVPB.

No guarantees, of course, but the only thing you know for sure is if you don't bid, you won't get an interview. (Also, they have a new hiring partner this year, so not sure if that will change things up. )

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Re: Less selective DC firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:21 pm

JD interviews lots of people who don't get them with the lottery. So if they like your resume and you've got them in your top 20, they'll get in contact with you.

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jessuf
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Re: Less selective DC firms

Postby jessuf » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:JD interviews lots of people who don't get them with the lottery. So if they like your resume and you've got them in your top 20, they'll get in contact with you.


So firms will be able to see where I ranked them even if I don't get an interview through the lottery?

Edit: Also, Jones Day is one of my top reach picks, but I see they will do one interview for multiple cities. I am thinking on just bidding for them anyway but knowing I will probably not get DC.

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Re: Less selective DC firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:25 pm

Jessuf wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:JD interviews lots of people who don't get them with the lottery. So if they like your resume and you've got them in your top 20, they'll get in contact with you.


So firms will be able to see where I ranked them even if I don't get an interview through the lottery?


All firms in your top 20 get your resume. As far as I know they won't know exactly where in the top 20 you ranked them.

Also, spam your resume to every firm you don't get in the lottery. Good way to pick up extra interviews.

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jessuf
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Re: Less selective DC firms

Postby jessuf » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:27 pm

donniedarko wrote:Not sure if this is a valid question, but to your knowledge, do certain NY firms seem more GULC friendly than others?


Regarding this and your previous question, I am making a spreadsheet for all of the DC firms and NYC firms that hire 3.0-3.5 if you'd like me to e-mail it to you. I'm hoping to finish it tomorrow. I already did the DC section, which is where my list came from. It has stuff like vault ranking, median hiring GULC GPA, number of GULC hires, number of expected 2012 SAs, interviews/bid ratio, average hours worked, compensation.

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donniedarko
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Re: Less selective DC firms

Postby donniedarko » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:29 pm

That would be amazing. I'll pm u my email

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VulcanVulcanVulcan
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Re: Less selective DC firms

Postby VulcanVulcanVulcan » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:44 pm

Is there public data on the number of 2012 or 2013 SA's for these firms?

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jessuf
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Re: Less selective DC firms

Postby jessuf » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:59 pm

VulcanVulcanVulcan wrote:Is there public data on the number of 2012 or 2013 SA's for these firms?


I'm just using NALP.

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Re: Less selective DC firms

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:04 pm

VulcanVulcanVulcan wrote:Is there public data on the number of 2012 or 2013 SA's for these firms?

The NALP Directory has this info. (Probably no expected 2013 SA numbers yet.)

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jessuf
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Re: Less selective DC firms

Postby jessuf » Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:05 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
VulcanVulcanVulcan wrote:Is there public data on the number of 2012 or 2013 SA's for these firms?

The NALP Directory has this info. (Probably no expected 2013 SA numbers yet.)


Yeah, I haven't seen anything for 2013 yet after doing tons of research on NALP. I'm just using 2012 figures.




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