Page 2 of 2

Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:47 pm
by ahnhub
drbarry987 wrote:Most recent NALP data we have:

http://abovethelaw.com/2012/02/best-law ... -job-2012/

Even giving NYU the benefit of the doubt with DAT PI and dem clerkships the dif still looks like ~20% placement to me bro


What, are you putting me on? That's for c/o 2011. The info in this thread is for summer jobs for c/o 2013.

Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:50 pm
by Bronck
drbarry987 wrote:Most recent NALP data we have:

http://abovethelaw.com/2012/02/best-law ... -job-2012/

Even giving NYU the benefit of the doubt with DAT PI and dem clerkships the dif still looks like ~20% placement to me bro


*face palm*

And what's the point of mentioning NYU here... we don't need yet another discussion on this.

Chicago's stats look really good, was expecting something around here (considering the earlier leak of CLS data). Nice to see things picking up (albeit gradually)

Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:03 pm
by ahnhub
The numbers look good, but I'm a little trepidatious about this upcoming year. If 85% of Chicago is doing a summer firm job and the vast majority of those are good outcomes, that's actually better than general sentiment would lead you to believe (their pre-recession 2L class weas right around 90%). But some of the V10 hired like crazy this past year, so 1) I'm not sure places like Skadden, which hired like 150 SA's this past year, can really get much bigger and 2) I'm afraid some of the hiring may have been to make up for cutting too much. At any rate, I hope there's some more recovery at some non-V10/V20 firms.

Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:14 pm
by drbarry987
Not trying to rehash an argument just sayin that NALP info is the most recent data I have seen from NYU. To my knowledge they didn't release anything closeto as comprehensive as the U of C data ITT and the CLS data posted elsewhere. Any from what we have it seems that Chicago is outpacing NYU by ~20%. But maybe I'm way off here. Either way I'd like to see a bit more transparency.

Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:20 pm
by rayiner
ahnhub wrote:The numbers look good, but I'm a little trepidatious about this upcoming year. If 85% of Chicago is doing a summer firm job and the vast majority of those are good outcomes, that's actually better than general sentiment would lead you to believe (their pre-recession 2L class weas right around 90%). But some of the V10 hired like crazy this past year, so 1) I'm not sure places like Skadden, which hired like 150 SA's this past year, can really get much bigger and 2) I'm afraid some of the hiring may have been to make up for cutting too much. At any rate, I hope there's some more recovery at some non-V10/V20 firms.


Their pre-recession figure was 90%. This data looks like 77%. What makes you say it's close to pre-recession levels?

Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:28 pm
by ahnhub
rayiner wrote:
ahnhub wrote:The numbers look good, but I'm a little trepidatious about this upcoming year. If 85% of Chicago is doing a summer firm job and the vast majority of those are good outcomes, that's actually better than general sentiment would lead you to believe (their pre-recession 2L class weas right around 90%). But some of the V10 hired like crazy this past year, so 1) I'm not sure places like Skadden, which hired like 150 SA's this past year, can really get much bigger and 2) I'm afraid some of the hiring may have been to make up for cutting too much. At any rate, I hope there's some more recovery at some non-V10/V20 firms.


Their pre-recession figure was 90%. This data looks like 77%. What makes you say it's close to pre-recession levels?


So the anon poster is saying that 85% of the entire school is working at a law firm for 2L summer (77% NLJ 250, 8% non). 89% of the school worked at a law firm 2L summer for c/o 2010. I know the mix could very well be different--almost all of those 90% could have been true SA positions where almost all of them got market-paying offers at the end, while it may be different for this class--but the raw numbers are closer to c/o 2010 than 2011. I wasn't really saying it's close to pre-recession, but it could be argued c/o 2013 is as close to pre-recession as they are to the crash, if those numbers hold up. I mean, since only 54% of c/o 2011 got 100+ firm or a fed clerkship, they couldn't have had much more than 55-60% doing a true Biglaw SA second summer, right?

Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:13 pm
by 2014
I'm definitely encouraged by the numbers. With 77% in a market paying SA, as many as 4-5% in what sounds like good boutique positions and a certain non-zero% who inevitably don't pursue OCI we are talking a fairly low chance at striking out should one attend UChi. Yeah some people clearly end up boned, but if those numbers hold up the odds are as good as one could expect ITE.

Thanks to the UChi folks for sharing and Ray for the color commentary.

Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:14 pm
by hume85
drbarry987 wrote:Not trying to rehash an argument just sayin that NALP info is the most recent data I have seen from NYU. To my knowledge they didn't release anything closeto as comprehensive as the U of C data ITT and the CLS data posted elsewhere. Any from what we have it seems that Chicago is outpacing NYU by ~20%. But maybe I'm way off here. Either way I'd like to see a bit more transparency.


They are not outpacing them by 20% if you compare class of 2011 at UC with class of 2011 at NYU. You can't compare stats at one school from the worst year in recent memory (c/o 2011 at NYU) with stats at another school in a rebound year (c/o 2013 at UC). Whatever difference you observe is not a trustworthy measure of the difference in the school's placement abilities. Compare c/o 2011 with c/o 2011 and c/o 2013 with c/o 2013

Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:20 pm
by Anonymous User
drbarry987 wrote:Not trying to rehash an argument just sayin that NALP info is the most recent data I have seen from NYU. To my knowledge they didn't release anything closeto as comprehensive as the U of C data ITT and the CLS data posted elsewhere. Any from what we have it seems that Chicago is outpacing NYU by ~20%. But maybe I'm way off here. Either way I'd like to see a bit more transparency.


Many moons ago I'm pretty sure NYU used to be more forthcoming (at least to its students about specific placement info) but then someone posted it to XOXO and some law firm complained because they were getting worse students than it thought it should. Law students don't stop obsessing over rankings and various measures of prestige when they get a big law job. Essentially, if Firm A thinks that its as desirable/prestigious as Firm B and then learns that Firm B got students with a much higher average GPA/fewer turned down their offers Firm A's feelings get hurt.

Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:52 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote:
drbarry987 wrote:Not trying to rehash an argument just sayin that NALP info is the most recent data I have seen from NYU. To my knowledge they didn't release anything closeto as comprehensive as the U of C data ITT and the CLS data posted elsewhere. Any from what we have it seems that Chicago is outpacing NYU by ~20%. But maybe I'm way off here. Either way I'd like to see a bit more transparency.


Many moons ago I'm pretty sure NYU used to be more forthcoming (at least to its students about specific placement info) but then someone posted it to XOXO and some law firm complained because they were getting worse students than it thought it should. Law students don't stop obsessing over rankings and various measures of prestige when they get a big law job. Essentially, if Firm A thinks that its as desirable/prestigious as Firm B and then learns that Firm B got students with a much higher average GPA/fewer turned down their offers Firm A's feelings get hurt.



That law firm was Skadden. They actually called OCS and cut their interview slots in half after the information leaked.

Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:06 pm
by dixiecupdrinking
drbarry987 wrote:Not trying to rehash an argument just sayin that NALP info is the most recent data I have seen from NYU. To my knowledge they didn't release anything closeto as comprehensive as the U of C data ITT and the CLS data posted elsewhere. Any from what we have it seems that Chicago is outpacing NYU by ~20%. But maybe I'm way off here. Either way I'd like to see a bit more transparency.

Guy links to page that illustrates a clear 5% difference between schools, claims a 20% difference, wonders whether he is "way off here."

Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:56 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
drbarry987 wrote:Not trying to rehash an argument just sayin that NALP info is the most recent data I have seen from NYU. To my knowledge they didn't release anything closeto as comprehensive as the U of C data ITT and the CLS data posted elsewhere. Any from what we have it seems that Chicago is outpacing NYU by ~20%. But maybe I'm way off here. Either way I'd like to see a bit more transparency.


Many moons ago I'm pretty sure NYU used to be more forthcoming (at least to its students about specific placement info) but then someone posted it to XOXO and some law firm complained because they were getting worse students than it thought it should. Law students don't stop obsessing over rankings and various measures of prestige when they get a big law job. Essentially, if Firm A thinks that its as desirable/prestigious as Firm B and then learns that Firm B got students with a much higher average GPA/fewer turned down their offers Firm A's feelings get hurt.



That law firm was Skadden. They actually called OCS and cut their interview slots in half after the information linked.


link?

Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:15 pm
by Anonymous User
But how would giving a breakdown of percent and raw numbers of students in various bands of employment (v10, v20, v100) -- much like the Chicago data ITT -- cause any feelings to get hurt? I get the justification for not releasing individual firm GPA medians/cutoffs but shouldnt prospective students have the right to know how NYU is stacking up placement wise against its peers before taking out up to 270k COA (after unsubsidized interest)?

Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:18 am
by Detrox
I'm generally an NYU supporter/troll, but I do agree it's disappointing and incorrect for them not to have released the numbers. It leads me to just have to assume that the numbers are relatively poor, but it also leads to wild and unsubstantiated guessing as to HOW poor.

Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:39 am
by TaipeiMort
It should be mentioned that Chicago has 10-15 people skip OCI each year for PI

Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:57 pm
by redbullvodka
Just in case people didn't see this, UChicago updated the summer data on its own website. Looks impressive, or at the very least, encouraging.

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/prospective ... oymentdata

Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:35 pm
by bowser
Hmm. It definitely looks encouraging, but the info doesn't quite jive with what an earlier anon posted in this thread (someone said Chicago c/o 2013 had 85% working at a law firm 2L summer).

Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:48 pm
by redbullvodka
I think that the 85% figure was pulled in by the combination of a bad inference and CLS hiring data. Someone anonymously posted 77.2% nlj250 for 2013, and the 8% from 2012 was assumed to carry over, leading a new anon to say 85%, which happens to be what CLS anons have been leaking for their 2013 OCI numbers.