Top 10% at BU Forum

[Blindmelon]

HELP ME TOO, please. Just barely top 1/3 (3.45-3.49) at BU, not much work experience, secondary journal, looking for Boston or NY, business/corporate, nothing else really significant to say. Do I have an OK chance at OCI? I know bigger, less prestigious firms, with big summer classes are the way to go, but anything more specific advice? No chance at R&G??

THANK YOU.

Yer fucked. Better grades and LR last year, no SA.

To be fair, your resume reeked of California - you probably scared a few Boston firms away. He'll likely get a clerkship, so everyone in this thread don't go jumping off the tower just yet.

[Blindmelon]

New anon:
What if I have no desire to be in Boston or New York? I'm from a smaller southern city, hated living in Boston this year, and don't think I'd like NYC but I couldn't say for sure since I've never stayed there for more than a couple days. Can I skip OCI and rely on mass-mailing and minority job fairs? Or is skipping OCI always a stupid thing to do?

Given the way the economy is, I would apply everywhere. Although, if you're from a random southern state (like WVA, AL, AK), things are much less competitive (although there are less jobs).

I've found the CDO to be useless. Maura Kelly is a sweetheart, and I'm sure the rest of the CDO tries their best, but they haven't been able to give any useful advice. I asked for bidding advice and was told to bid on places that interest me, don't try to game the system. So, they don't want me to try to maximize my chance of getting an offer based on past placement statistics? And everyone you have review your resume asks you to change something that the last person asked you to put this way. I'm tired of them and frankly don't trust their advice.

I agree with this. Honestly, that is one of the reasons I'm considering transferring. I spoke to someone at the CDO of one of the school's I'm considering transferring to without having accepted the spot yet, and he was very honest with me about what firms I should be bidding on and what my chances are of getting an interview.

No wonder our placement is so bad. This is the only thing the CDO has to do, and they can't even help us with that. I don't even want to get into what a waste of space and money Josh Cooper is.

The law school has really plunged since I enrolled. IMO its pretty poorly managed and the Dean, etc. doesn't seem to care that the CDO minus one or two people is largely a joke. I don't have the time really to post here, but I'll give advice as I went into the process totally blind and somehow ended up with a few offers. If I could do it over again, I would have done it very, very differently. Fire questions if you want - but I won't really speculate on your chances of an offer - too many factors to consider. People at median get big 3 offers, and some people in the top 10% get nothing. Its not a pure numbers game like law school admissions are, no matter what people say (within reason).

[Anonymous User]

Another anon:

What would you say my chances are for big-law in Boston or NY? Top 20% with secondary journal. Few years of work experience, one in finance. I'm also considering transferring and have gotten into two T-14 schools so far.

OP here. Congrats on getting in to two T-14 schools! I'm playing the same game, got into GULC but don't really think I want to be in DC. Waiting on NYU and Columbia out of some crazy hope that I'll get in there.

As to all the other posters in this thread, yes BU CDO makes me so very sad. My friend goes to GULC and she said the counselor was able to advise on which firms are likely to offer her, past statistics, and how she should bid.

I'm meeting with the CDO tomorrow to try and pry some answers out of them. Wish me luck.

Edit: Also was it a terrible idea to turn down GULC? I've heard enough horror stories about being a small fish in a big pond there as a transfer and while I'm sure I could stomach DC, everyone keeps turning me off on it. Was I a complete idiot for staying (at least for now) at BU?

[Anonymous User]

The law school has really plunged since I enrolled. IMO its pretty poorly managed and the Dean, etc. doesn't seem to care that the CDO minus one or two people is largely a joke. I don't have the time really to post here, but I'll give advice as I went into the process totally blind and somehow ended up with a few offers. If I could do it over again, I would have done it very, very differently. Fire questions if you want - but I won't really speculate on your chances of an offer - too many factors to consider. People at median get big 3 offers, and some people in the top 10% get nothing. Its not a pure numbers game like law school admissions are, no matter what people say (within reason).[/quote]

Bleh. As someone who made top 10% and hopes to get something this year, any advice aside from bid on safety/back-up firms?

[Anonymous User]

The law school has really plunged since I enrolled. IMO its pretty poorly managed and the Dean, etc. doesn't seem to care that the CDO minus one or two people is largely a joke. I don't have the time really to post here, but I'll give advice as I went into the process totally blind and somehow ended up with a few offers. If I could do it over again, I would have done it very, very differently. Fire questions if you want - but I won't really speculate on your chances of an offer - too many factors to consider. People at median get big 3 offers, and some people in the top 10% get nothing. Its not a pure numbers game like law school admissions are, no matter what people say (within reason).

Bleh. As someone who made top 10% and hopes to get something this year, any advice aside from bid on safety/back-up firms?[/quote]

What would you do differently? I'm coming in completely clueless about the bidding process, want to stay in Boston, and have pretty good numbers (~top 15% and LR, plus 2 years WE).

[Anonymous User]

New anon:
What if I have no desire to be in Boston or New York? I'm from a smaller southern city, hated living in Boston this year, and don't think I'd like NYC but I couldn't say for sure since I've never stayed there for more than a couple days. Can I skip OCI and rely on mass-mailing and minority job fairs? Or is skipping OCI always a stupid thing to do?

I'm not from Boston either, and I would hate to end up practicing law here. I want to practice law in California, but I'm still doing OCI just to be safe. But I'm different, because I'm applying to the ultra-competitive San Francisco market. I would ask CDO for their advice.

I would feel bad though, taking interviews at places where I had no desire to work. If I got an offer, I might take it, but I might not. We'll see what happens if I'm lucky enough to be in that situation.

I've found the CDO to be useless. Maura Kelly is a sweetheart, and I'm sure the rest of the CDO tries their best, but they haven't been able to give any useful advice. I asked for bidding advice and was told to bid on places that interest me, don't try to game the system. So, they don't want me to try to maximize my chance of getting an offer based on past placement statistics? And everyone you have review your resume asks you to change something that the last person asked you to put this way. I'm tired of them and frankly don't trust their advice.

I also agree. I have also had one person tell me one thing and another person tell me another thing. I feel like I'm getting general advice. They also market themselves as a California-oriented school, but their connections to California are awful. I find myself having to do the work completely on my own.

Also, edited to add one more observation... they always seem to go on vacation or travel when applications are ramping up. It makes it really hard to work with one person.

[Blindmelon]

The law school has really plunged since I enrolled. IMO its pretty poorly managed and the Dean, etc. doesn't seem to care that the CDO minus one or two people is largely a joke. I don't have the time really to post here, but I'll give advice as I went into the process totally blind and somehow ended up with a few offers. If I could do it over again, I would have done it very, very differently. Fire questions if you want - but I won't really speculate on your chances of an offer - too many factors to consider. People at median get big 3 offers, and some people in the top 10% get nothing. Its not a pure numbers game like law school admissions are, no matter what people say (within reason).

Bleh. As someone who made top 10% and hopes to get something this year, any advice aside from bid on safety/back-up firms?

What would you do differently? I'm coming in completely clueless about the bidding process, want to stay in Boston, and have pretty good numbers (~top 15% and LR, plus 2 years WE).[/quote]

If you want to stay in Boston, still bid on NYC. If you strike out in Boston, you could apply again as a 3L with an offer, and it will be really, really helpful (30k for the summer is nice too). Look for firms with huge class sizes, not necessarily ones that are "less selective" - e.g., Bingham is less selective than RG/WH/GP, but it only takes like 5 people, so you're less likely to get an offer. This is especially true for those without great creds (you like be totally fine with grades like that and LR). The goal of OCI interviews (at least the screeners) is to show that you are a special little snowflake. What do you bring to the table that other BU or BC students don't that have the same grades. If you can sell yourself without being a tool, then you will likely outperform your grades by a lot.

A lot of it is also luck... you could have 10 CBs and 1 offer, but that offer is all you need. Some people get 1 CB and 1 offer - they are in the same position as the other guy.

Also, while its easy to be super pessimistic, I don't think you should be. Apply everywhere. I think we have 2 2Ls at Kirkland in Chicago this summer - not a hot-spot for BU, but its definitely doable. We have two graduating 3Ls at SullCrom, one at Cleary and two at Paul Weiss - not all of them were top 10%ers (I think).

Don't underestimate mass-mailing - for a lot of people it works. Make sure your resume is not only perfect but has interesting things on it - normally HR people will pull resumes for preselects and they will focus on credentials, but they are human too, and if something looks cool, you will get an interview.

And don't worry if you don't get a lot of preselects. I think I got like 4, and then was able to pick up 5 or 6 alternates and two of the latter turned into offers. 3L OCI, while you shouldn't rely on it at all, is not a complete waste. I know a handful of people that picked up offers through it.

Finally, research the firm. Do not walk into an interview saying you love tax law if the firm only has 2 tax people - you won't get a callback. Don't overresearch though either, firms don't want you sitting their reciting BS from their website. Fit is huge - if you interview and the people like you, you could be a median student heading to Goodwin - just don't hold your breath for Ropes (as I said, I think they're mostly just numbers based).

[Anonymous User]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is preselects?

[Anonymous User]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is preselects?

The firm decides to interview you, instead of a lottery where they're stuck with interviewing you and you might not be a candidate they'd normally consider.

I also wanted to share this gem from the BU CDO. When I asked about mass-mailing I was told to wait until after OCI. I asked if that was still true for mass mailing my home market, where those firms wouldn't be coming to OCI. And I was told to wait until after these firms did their normal recruiting in the fall, which meant I wouldn't even be at home and available to interview like I would be this summer if I mailed now. It's just so much terrible advice concentrated in one office.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks. So how does one get a preselect? Is it something we should have heard by now about? I saw someone posted earlier that he/she had seven preselects.

Wow, that is bad advice. CDO has also been giving conflicting advice. Their timeline says to send out applications in July. A counselor told me in person that that was too late and I should have started in June before I heard about journals.

[Blindmelon]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is preselects?

The firm decides to interview you, instead of a lottery where they're stuck with interviewing you and you might not be a candidate they'd normally consider.

I also wanted to share this gem from the BU CDO. When I asked about mass-mailing I was told to wait until after OCI. I asked if that was still true for mass mailing my home market, where those firms wouldn't be coming to OCI. And I was told to wait until after these firms did their normal recruiting in the fall, which meant I wouldn't even be at home and available to interview like I would be this summer if I mailed now. It's just so much terrible advice concentrated in one office.

Uh, what the heck? Mass-mail now, now, now, now. A few people I know had callbacks/offers before OCI started.

[Anonymous User]

Top 5 in section + LR. Want NYC. Is it stupid to transfer to Penn or higher? I know people from class of 2013 who are top 10% + LR with no offers from OCI last year, and that scares the shit out of me. Confused here.

[Anonymous User]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is preselects?

The firm decides to interview you, instead of a lottery where they're stuck with interviewing you and you might not be a candidate they'd normally consider.

I also wanted to share this gem from the BU CDO. When I asked about mass-mailing I was told to wait until after OCI. I asked if that was still true for mass mailing my home market, where those firms wouldn't be coming to OCI. And I was told to wait until after these firms did their normal recruiting in the fall, which meant I wouldn't even be at home and available to interview like I would be this summer if I mailed now. It's just so much terrible advice concentrated in one office.

Uh, what the heck? Mass-mail now, now, now, now. A few people I know had callbacks/offers before OCI started.

1) So mass mail should be going out ASAP? CDO told me to wait until after bidding is done >.> Man, they're really off their game if what you say is true.

2) I saw you mentioned that R&G is one of the more grade-selective firms in Boston. Does that mean top 15%, top 10%, top 3 people in each section?

3) Echoing what the other poster said, when would we find out if we got "pre-selected" by a firm? After bidding closes?

[Blindmelon]

Top 5 in section + LR. Want NYC. Is it stupid to transfer to Penn or higher? I know people from class of 2013 who are top 10% + LR with no offers from OCI last year, and that scares the shit out of me. Confused here.

If you don't get an offer with those credentials, its likely your interviewing ability and not the school you go to... You could try to convince the school to give you more scholarship, but I would definitely stay unless maybe Chicago/Columbia or higher. I'd bet you could pull off some V10 firm in NYC.

[Blindmelon]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is preselects?

The firm decides to interview you, instead of a lottery where they're stuck with interviewing you and you might not be a candidate they'd normally consider.

I also wanted to share this gem from the BU CDO. When I asked about mass-mailing I was told to wait until after OCI. I asked if that was still true for mass mailing my home market, where those firms wouldn't be coming to OCI. And I was told to wait until after these firms did their normal recruiting in the fall, which meant I wouldn't even be at home and available to interview like I would be this summer if I mailed now. It's just so much terrible advice concentrated in one office.

Uh, what the heck? Mass-mail now, now, now, now. A few people I know had callbacks/offers before OCI started.

1) So mass mail should be going out ASAP? CDO told me to wait until after bidding is done >.> Man, they're really off their game if what you say is true.

2) I saw you mentioned that R&G is one of the more grade-selective firms in Boston. Does that mean top 15%, top 10%, top 3 people in each section?

3) Echoing what the other poster said, when would we find out if we got "pre-selected" by a firm? After bidding closes?

I didn't personally mass-mail but I know people who did, and it seems like you should do it before firms do OCI at other schools... it makes sense, right? They're going to hire a certain group of people, you don't want to be on the tail end of the selection (when theres only a few spots left).

R&G is like top 10-20% to be considered - top 10% + LR is almost auto-callback. You should rock it.

[Anonymous User]

FWIW, talked to CDO in the last few days and got some interesting OCI information:

1) Mean GPA for Biglaw hires was around top third. (That number could be suspect given that I don't really trust any of BU's numbers but makes sense given some of the stories we've heard. Also note that according to at least one other source about 18% of BU's class went into big law.)

2) Should hear about bid results in early August. The person I talked didn't specify when I asked if we would know if the interview was based on lottery/pre-select.

3) If you're not from Boston, be very careful about expressing preferences for non-Boston offices. Person I spoke with suggested not expressing any interest for a non-Boston until call-back/offer stage.

4) Be ready for random behavioral questions in screener interviews. (This might be a no-brainer but he said that some firms especially like to throw random questions during screeners to see how people react).

5) Mass mail now. Person I spoke with said email was preferred by most firms.

This could all be common knowledge but I thought it was interesting and worth a share.

[Anonymous User]

[quote="Anonymous User"]FWIW, talked to CDO today and got some interesting OCI information:

1) Mean GPA for Biglaw hires was 3.56 last year. (Roughly top third. That number could be suspect given that I don't really trust any of BU's numbers but makes sense given some of the stories we've heard. Also note that according to at least one other source about 18% of BU's class went into big law.)[/quote]

Do you know if this was for the class of 2011 or for 3L's who did OCI last year?

[Anonymous User]

FWIW, talked to CDO today and got some interesting OCI information:

1) Mean GPA for Biglaw hires was 3.56 last year. (Roughly top third. That number could be suspect given that I don't really trust any of BU's numbers but makes sense given some of the stories we've heard. Also note that according to at least one other source about 18% of BU's class went into big law.)

Do you know if this was for the class of 2011 or for 3L's who did OCI last year?

Oh, good question. Not sure. I think I asked "For people who did OCI last year, what was the mean GPA?"

The person I spoke with also mentioned that it's been close to 3.56 for the past couple of years FWIW.

[Anonymous User]

Edit: In conclusion, CDO isn't as frustrating as we always complain. I think some people there *cough*Jason McCann*cough* are actually pretty useful but you just have to come in with targeted specific questions.

Unlike ..., who's a hot mess (not in a good way) and ignores emails.

[Anonymous User]

real classy BU calling out career services people by name and hiding behind anonymous. no wonder this school is dropping fast - the students seem really mature. Even if there are problems - publicly airing them on a message board won't get anything solved and just makes the school look bad.

[ajaxconstructions]

real classy BU calling out career services people by name and hiding behind anonymous. no wonder this school is dropping fast - the students seem really mature. Even if there are problems - publicly airing them on a message board won't get anything solved and just makes the school look bad.

Real classy, calling out anons calling out career services while also using anon feature.

[nevdash]

real classy BU calling out career services people by name and hiding behind anonymous. no wonder this school is dropping fast - the students seem really mature. Even if there are problems - publicly airing them on a message board won't get anything solved and just makes the school look bad.

This board serves many functions. One is giving/receiving constructive advice to solve problems. Another is venting with your peers about the stress that comes with law school/the legal job market. The fact that you couldn't see that and decided to butt in with a stupid (and, ironically, anonymous) comment means that you're the immature one.

[Anonymous User]

I agree with the other posters. It's one thing to vent frustrations about the CDO. It's another to publicy bash individuals. Not cool bro.

[Anonymous User]

I agree with the other posters. It's one thing to vent frustrations about the CDO. It's another to publicy bash individuals. Not cool bro.

Fair. Edited.

[Anonymous User]

Might as well toss my hat in the ring. Top 1/3, LR, no time off b/w undergrad and law school. My bid ranking right now is loosely just ranking by requirements and prestige. It doesn't seem to involve much strategy. What should I be doing?