2013 Vault Rankings

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Blindmelon
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Re: 2013 Vault Rankings

Postby Blindmelon » Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:44 am

concurrent fork wrote:(Wilmer SA)


Nope, just illustrating a point. I've heard at least a few people taking regional offices of V50 firms in Boston over Choate/Foley Hoag type firms because the V50 is better known... outside of Boston.

IAFG wrote:
kaiser wrote:With the revenue that Cahill brings in, and the excellent bonuses they give, why exactly do they fall in the rankings to below 50?
Why aren't the USNWR rankings a ranking of placement power? Methodology that doesn't reflect our priorities, obvs.


This. Vault = US News in a lot of ways.

concurrent fork
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Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:40 am

Re: 2013 Vault Rankings

Postby concurrent fork » Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:07 am

I was kidding. I agree with you that Ropes is not the default choice for Boston. Especially since they are apparently asking for voluntary deferrals.

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Blindmelon
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Re: 2013 Vault Rankings

Postby Blindmelon » Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:56 am

concurrent fork wrote:I was kidding. I agree with you that Ropes is not the default choice for Boston. Especially since they are apparently asking for voluntary deferrals.


Yea, they really pushed for public interest deferrals. Their class size is absolutely massive considering the size of the office... could have something to do with it, but I also hear they have been pretty slow recently.

TheProsecutor
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Re: 2013 Vault Rankings

Postby TheProsecutor » Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:40 pm

The methodology is somewhat silly. It is a ranking of the top law firms by current associates. I liked when the partner rankings were also included - which usually mirrored, generally, the associate rankings.

I don't think that these rankings are all that useful other than a rough proxy for prestige. I certainly think Wachtell is the most prestigious firm in the country, but it also would be a rather poor choice for people who want to work "normal" biglaw hours (whatever the hell that is).

Here are the true prestige rankings.

1. Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz
2. Williams & Connolly
3. Cravath, Swaine & Moore
4. Munger, Tolles & Olsen
5. Sullivan & Cromwell
6. Boies, Schiller & Flexner
7. Skadden
8. Susman
9. Kirkland
10. Davis Polk

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rayiner
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Re: 2013 Vault Rankings

Postby rayiner » Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:46 pm

TheProsecutor wrote:The methodology is somewhat silly. It is a ranking of the top law firms by current associates. I liked when the partner rankings were also included - which usually mirrored, generally, the associate rankings.

I don't think that these rankings are all that useful other than a rough proxy for prestige. I certainly think Wachtell is the most prestigious firm in the country, but it also would be a rather poor choice for people who want to work "normal" biglaw hours (whatever the hell that is).

Here are the true prestige rankings.

1. Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz
2. Williams & Connolly
3. Cravath, Swaine & Moore
4. Munger, Tolles & Olsen
5. Sullivan & Cromwell
6. Boies, Schiller & Flexner
7. Skadden
8. Susman
9. Kirkland
10. Davis Polk

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IAFG
Posts: 6665
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Re: 2013 Vault Rankings

Postby IAFG » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:10 pm

TheProsecutor wrote:The methodology is somewhat silly. It is a ranking of the top law firms by current associates. I liked when the partner rankings were also included - which usually mirrored, generally, the associate rankings.

I don't think that these rankings are all that useful other than a rough proxy for prestige. I certainly think Wachtell is the most prestigious firm in the country, but it also would be a rather poor choice for people who want to work "normal" biglaw hours (whatever the hell that is).

Here are the true prestige rankings.
Instead, let me provide you with this ranking I will now pull out of my ass:

1. Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz
2. Williams & Connolly
3. Cravath, Swaine & Moore
4. Munger, Tolles & Olsen
5. Sullivan & Cromwell
6. Boies, Schiller & Flexner
7. Skadden
8. Susman
9. Kirkland
10. Davis Polk
Truly, you have found the most unassailable methodology, FRIEND.

WODKilla123
Posts: 62
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Re: 2013 Vault Rankings

Postby WODKilla123 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:13 pm

Yea maybe for lit. For corp/M&A prestige is more like

1. Wachtell




2-3. CSM = S&C
3-4. DPW (if u want dat IPO/ Rule 144a)
STB (if u want PE M&A)
5. Skadden
6. Debevoise
7. Latham
8. Weil (bump Weil to #2 if u want BK)
9. KE

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rayiner
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Re: 2013 Vault Rankings

Postby rayiner » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:23 pm

WODKilla123 wrote:Yea maybe for lit. For corp/M&A prestige is more like

1. Wachtell




2-3. CSM = S&C
3-4. DPW (if u want dat IPO/ Rule 144a)
STB (if u want PE M&A)
5. Skadden
6. Debevoise
7. Latham
8. Weil (bump Weil to #2 if u want BK)
9. KE


Rancid anti-Cleary, pro-Weil, pro-Debevoise trolling.

Renzo
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Re: 2013 Vault Rankings

Postby Renzo » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:38 pm

TheProsecutor wrote:The methodology is somewhat silly. It is a ranking of the top law firms by current associates. I liked when the partner rankings were also included - which usually mirrored, generally, the associate rankings.

I don't think that these rankings are all that useful other than a rough proxy for prestige.



waitwaitwaitwaitwait.

Wait just a minute.

You mean to tell me that the Vault rankings, which purport to measure the prestige of law firms by asking lawyers which firms they view as the most prestigious, are nothing more than a rough proxy for prestige?

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IAFG
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Re: 2013 Vault Rankings

Postby IAFG » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:43 pm

Renzo wrote:
TheProsecutor wrote:The methodology is somewhat silly. It is a ranking of the top law firms by current associates. I liked when the partner rankings were also included - which usually mirrored, generally, the associate rankings.

I don't think that these rankings are all that useful other than a rough proxy for prestige.



waitwaitwaitwaitwait.

Wait just a minute.

You mean to tell me that the Vault rankings, which purport to measure the prestige of law firms by asking lawyers which firms they view as the most prestigious, are nothing more than a rough proxy for prestige?

Ah but we are limited no more by Vault's inadequate and rough proxy! Now we have TheProsecutor's definitive guide to prestige.

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Old Gregg
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Re: 2013 Vault Rankings

Postby Old Gregg » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:57 pm

WODKilla123 wrote:Yea maybe for lit. For corp/M&A prestige is more like

1. Wachtell




2-3. CSM = S&C
3-4. DPW (if u want dat IPO/ Rule 144a)
STB (if u want PE M&A)
5. Skadden
6. Debevoise
7. Latham
8. Weil (bump Weil to #2 if u want BK)
9. KE


You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

concurrent fork
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Re: 2013 Vault Rankings

Postby concurrent fork » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:12 pm

ITT: law students tell biglaw associates what the most prestigious firms are

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rayiner
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Re: 2013 Vault Rankings

Postby rayiner » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:21 pm

WODKilla123 wrote:Yea maybe for lit. For corp/M&A prestige is more like

1. Wachtell




2-3. CSM = S&C
3-4. DPW (if u want dat IPO/ Rule 144a)
STB (if u want PE M&A)
5. Skadden
6. Debevoise
7. Latham
8. Weil (bump Weil to #2 if u want BK)
9. KE


Since you're just ranking this based on selectivity at your lower T14, you need to move CSM below S&C and Skadden below Deb.

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Old Gregg
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Re: 2013 Vault Rankings

Postby Old Gregg » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:22 pm

When you get your paycheck and realize you make the same as everyone else, and even less when you live in NYC, "prestige" gets old really quickly. Luckily, partners at Cravath have generations of tools they can rely on year after year.

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Renne Walker
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Re: 2013 Vault Rankings

Postby Renne Walker » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:08 pm

Tag it.

ajaxconstructions
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Re: 2013 Vault Rankings

Postby ajaxconstructions » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:13 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:When you get your paycheck and realize you make the same as everyone else, and even less when you live in NYC, "prestige" gets old really quickly. Luckily, partners at Cravath have generations of tools they can rely on year after year.


When you realize that you are going to have awesome exit options at a v5 compared to a prosk rose, you feel a lot better.

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Old Gregg
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Re: 2013 Vault Rankings

Postby Old Gregg » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:17 pm

ajaxconstructions wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:When you get your paycheck and realize you make the same as everyone else, and even less when you live in NYC, "prestige" gets old really quickly. Luckily, partners at Cravath have generations of tools they can rely on year after year.


When you realize that you are going to have awesome exit options at a v5 compared to a prosk rose, you feel a lot better.


LOL, "exit options" are the crutch of any prestige whore. Once you start practicing, you'll see what's out there. It's not as simple as you say it is.

But yes, the Sidley associate in Chicago is clearly career-fucked.

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rayiner
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Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: 2013 Vault Rankings

Postby rayiner » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:19 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:
ajaxconstructions wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:When you get your paycheck and realize you make the same as everyone else, and even less when you live in NYC, "prestige" gets old really quickly. Luckily, partners at Cravath have generations of tools they can rely on year after year.


When you realize that you are going to have awesome exit options at a v5 compared to a prosk rose, you feel a lot better.


LOL, "exit options" are the crutch of any prestige whore. person trying to justify choosing Cravath without being able to actually point to any concrete data that justifies choosing Cravath.

Magnificent
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:27 pm

Re: 2013 Vault Rankings

Postby Magnificent » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:08 pm

TheProsecutor wrote:The methodology is somewhat silly. It is a ranking of the top law firms by current associates. I liked when the partner rankings were also included - which usually mirrored, generally, the associate rankings.

I don't think that these rankings are all that useful other than a rough proxy for prestige. I certainly think Wachtell is the most prestigious firm in the country, but it also would be a rather poor choice for people who want to work "normal" biglaw hours (whatever the hell that is).

Here are the true prestige rankings.

1. Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz
2. Williams & Connolly
3. Cravath, Swaine & Moore
4. Munger, Tolles & Olsen
5. Sullivan & Cromwell
6. Boies, Schiller & Flexner
7. Skadden
8. Susman
9. Kirkland
10. Davis Polk


No.

If I want to litigate, there is no way Wachtell is more prestigious than W&C. That is why its hard to rank firms by prestige because different firms are good at different things. I'll give you that if you want to be a corporate lawyer, the vault ranking are pretty accurate. But in terms of litigation, give me Susman/Munger/W&C over anyone.

Magnificent
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:27 pm

Re: 2013 Vault Rankings

Postby Magnificent » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:17 pm

WODKilla123 wrote:Yea maybe for lit. For corp/M&A prestige is more like

1. Wachtell




2-3. CSM = S&C
3-4. DPW (if u want dat IPO/ Rule 144a)
STB (if u want PE M&A)
5. Skadden
6. Debevoise
7. Latham
8. Weil (bump Weil to #2 if u want BK)
9. KE


decent list if you substitute cleary for debevoise

in terms of litigation I would say:

1-2. W&C/Susman (depending on whether you prefer white collar vs. commercial lit)
2-5. Kellogg Huber/Munger/Keker (depends on geographic preference DC v. LA v. SF)

***huge gap***

6-7. Boise/Quinn
8-10. Kirkland/GDC/Paul Weiss

MTC87
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:07 pm

Re: 2013 Vault Rankings

Postby MTC87 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:19 pm

rayiner wrote:
WODKilla123 wrote:Yea maybe for lit. For corp/M&A prestige is more like

1. Wachtell




2-3. CSM = S&C
3-4. DPW (if u want dat IPO/ Rule 144a)
STB (if u want PE M&A)
5. Skadden
6. Debevoise
7. Latham
8. Weil (bump Weil to #2 if u want BK)
9. KE


Since you're just ranking this based on selectivity at your lower T14, you need to move CSM below S&C and Skadden below Deb.


.
Last edited by MTC87 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

rad lulz
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Re: 2013 Vault Rankings

Postby rad lulz » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:24 pm

ajaxconstructions wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:When you get your paycheck and realize you make the same as everyone else, and even less when you live in NYC, "prestige" gets old really quickly. Luckily, partners at Cravath have generations of tools they can rely on year after year.


When you realize that you are going to have awesome exit options at a v5 compared to a prosk rose, you feel a lot better.

lol @ "exit options." Just saying V5 has better "exit options" is completely and utterly meaningless without considering WHAT you are trying to exit into.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2013 Vault Rankings

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:25 pm

This thread is dumb.

(1) Not quite sure why there is so much talk about Susman/Keker when discussing biglaw... Save those for the lit boutique discussions.

(2) Also the comment about W&C for white collar versus Susman for commercial lit is ill-informed. W&C does far, far more commercial lit than white collar (FYI - white collar virtually never comes close to trial). If you want big white collar investigations, look to Covington, Wilmer, etc.

(3) If you're going to get into a lit boutique discussion, it's way more complicated than the 1L's and 2L's posting here make it look. Off the top of my head, you should be discussing, inter alia: Kellogg Huber; Robbins Russell; Zuckerman Spaeder; MoloLamken; Morvillo; Keker; Bartlitt Beck; Yetter Coleman; etc.

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Old Gregg
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Re: 2013 Vault Rankings

Postby Old Gregg » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:43 pm

No point in arguing with magnificent. He's so stupid you're wondering whether he's trolling.

Vault rankings measure prestige and they're good at what they do. They don't measure firm health, they don't measure compensation, they don't measure which firms have the bests active groups.

Complaining that Vault rankings focus on NYC M&A is useless. If that's what people think is prestigious, then it is prestigious.

This really isn't the place for metaphysical debates about what prestige is.

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Old Gregg
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Re: 2013 Vault Rankings

Postby Old Gregg » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:This thread is dumb.

(1) Not quite sure why there is so much talk about Susman/Keker when discussing biglaw... Save those for the lit boutique discussions.

(2) Also the comment about W&C for white collar versus Susman for commercial lit is ill-informed. W&C does far, far more commercial lit than white collar (FYI - white collar virtually never comes close to trial). If you want big white collar investigations, look to Covington, Wilmer, etc.

(3) If you're going to get into a lit boutique discussion, it's way more complicated than the 1L's and 2L's posting here make it look. Off the top of my head, you should be discussing, inter alia: Kellogg Huber; Robbins Russell; Zuckerman Spaeder; MoloLamken; Morvillo; Keker; Bartlitt Beck; Yetter Coleman; etc.


#3 sounds like you're regurgitating the TLS group think: just because it's a boutique, it must be good. MoloLamken? Really? Are you just name dropping small firms at this point? This is absolutely comical. I have half a mind to say you probably don't know what half these firms specialize in, but you'll probably go to chambers and regurgitate that as if you knew it all along.




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