With my background can I get into Patent Prosecution?

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Gatorbull84
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With my background can I get into Patent Prosecution?

Postby Gatorbull84 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:58 am

I have a BS in Biological Engineering and a MS in Molecular Medicine. I just finished my first year and I plan on taking the patent bar this fall. My plan was to practice patent prosecution at a small to mid-size firm in Florida (Nothing huge just enough to make a comfortable living). Recently a lot of people have been telling me that my field requires a phd even though I have an engineering degree.

Basically with my background will I be able to get into IP prosecution or do I need a phd?

majmun
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Re: With my background can I get into Patent Prosecution?

Postby majmun » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:03 pm

Most will view your background as biology, not engineering. Even if your course work was heavy in engineering type classes, you aren't EE or ME so the whole a B.S. is all you need logic doesn't really apply. Not to mention there isn't a huge demand for biological engineering patent drafting as a specialty apart from general bio.

That said, there are plenty of bio patent prosecutors out there without a Ph.D., it's just going to be harder to find work (i.e. you don't get the bump that a bio Ph.D. or EE guy does).

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RedBirds2011
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Re: With my background can I get into Patent Prosecution?

Postby RedBirds2011 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:06 pm

majmun wrote:Most will view your background as biology, not engineering. Even if your course work was heavy in engineering type classes, you aren't EE or ME so the whole a B.S. is all you need logic doesn't really apply. Not to mention there isn't a huge demand for biological engineering patent drafting as a specialty apart from general bio.

That said, there are plenty of bio patent prosecutors out there without a Ph.D., it's just going to be harder to find work (i.e. you don't get the bump that a bio Ph.D. or EE guy does).



From my understanding, there is quite a bit of medical device patent prosecution work. OP might be suited ok for that with bio engineering. However, a PhD is often a necessity for biotech related stuff. But again, bio eng for medical device MIGHT be something to look into.

majmun
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Re: With my background can I get into Patent Prosecution?

Postby majmun » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:10 pm

RedBirds2011 wrote:
majmun wrote:Most will view your background as biology, not engineering. Even if your course work was heavy in engineering type classes, you aren't EE or ME so the whole a B.S. is all you need logic doesn't really apply. Not to mention there isn't a huge demand for biological engineering patent drafting as a specialty apart from general bio.

That said, there are plenty of bio patent prosecutors out there without a Ph.D., it's just going to be harder to find work (i.e. you don't get the bump that a bio Ph.D. or EE guy does).



From my understanding, there is quite a bit of medical device patent prosecution work. OP might be suited ok for that with bio engineering. However, a PhD is often a necessity for biotech related stuff. But again, bio eng for medical device MIGHT be something to look into.


Yeah, if his background is actually biomedical engineering (i.e. medical device work) he'll have a leg up at places that do that kind of work. But, biological engineering doesn't necessarily mean medical devices.

Gatorbull84
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Re: With my background can I get into Patent Prosecution?

Postby Gatorbull84 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:12 pm

Thanks that was really helpful. I came to law school hoping to do IP prosecution and recently I was offered the chance to work as an engineer and get a second masters in biomedical engineering for very little cost. Im not sure law school is going to be worth another 70 grand in debt to finish if I cant land a solid job afterwards. Especially since Im coming from a good school but one that is only ranked in the 60's.

Thanks a lot

Gatorbull84
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Re: With my background can I get into Patent Prosecution?

Postby Gatorbull84 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:15 pm

Lets say I stick out law school and finish in the top half of my class, take the patent bar this year (2L year), and make some connections. What are my chances of landing a patent prosecution job in central or south florida starting in the 80's with the potential to go into the 100's after a couple of years?

Also, if you don't mind me asking are you guys patent attorneys?

thanks again

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RedBirds2011
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Re: With my background can I get into Patent Prosecution?

Postby RedBirds2011 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:20 pm

Gatorbull84 wrote:Thanks that was really helpful. I came to law school hoping to do IP prosecution and recently I was offered the chance to work as an engineer and get a second masters in biomedical engineering for very little cost. Im not sure law school is going to be worth another 70 grand in debt to finish if I cant land a solid job afterwards. Especially since Im coming from a good school but one that is only ranked in the 60's.

Thanks a lot



Yea, I personally think the low cost masters in bio engineering and engineering work is a great idea for you now. You can always go back to law school later if you still have a legitimate interest in patent prosecution work.


Edit: and no not a patent attorney. This is something I looked into quite a bit as well when I was thinking about law school. What I'm telling you is what some biotech patent people told me when I was researching. I'm just passing it along what I have found the past few years. I would highly recommend just calling some bio patent people. I did this and they were very patient and helpful to me.


Sorry, was assuming you hadnt matriculated yet. Did not see you are a rising 2L. In that case, this becomes a bit tougher on your decision.
Last edited by RedBirds2011 on Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RedBirds2011
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Re: With my background can I get into Patent Prosecution?

Postby RedBirds2011 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:24 pm

I just noticed you said you finished your first year already. I redact my previous statement about going to engineering. The fact you are done with first year makes this decision a lot harder for you. Are you dead set only on patent stuff? There is certainly no harm in doing the patent bar at this point.

majmun
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Re: With my background can I get into Patent Prosecution?

Postby majmun » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:24 pm

Gatorbull84 wrote:Lets say I stick out law school and finish in the top half of my class, take the patent bar this year (2L year), and make some connections. What are my chances of landing a patent prosecution job in central or south florida starting in the 80's with the potential to go into the 100's after a couple of years?

Also, if you don't mind me asking are you guys patent attorneys?

thanks again


It really is impossible for me to say. I went to top school and have a Ph.D., though most of my colleagues did not and have not. The way I see it, you've got two problems: your law school rank (both personal and institutional) and you appear to be married to FL. FL is a small IP market. It exists, but it's not big. If you were were willing to move anywhere your chances would go up a lot, though finding that first job would still be hard (probably).


That said, if once you land that first job you'll easily make that salary you are looking at and I've never heard of an experienced patent prosecutor being unable to find work for very long.

I am a patent attorney.

Gatorbull84
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Re: With my background can I get into Patent Prosecution?

Postby Gatorbull84 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:32 pm

Redbird, Ya Im pretty dead set on patent work. Completing my first year has made the decision a lot harder.

Majmun, thanks a lot. I know Fl is a rough market but Im from there. I guess I would be willing to move if it meant I could get back to FL in a few years. If you don't mind me asking what is your phd in and was city did you start out in? From what Ive read I need to be looking at DC, Dallas, Boston, or Cali.

Thanks guys I really appreciate your help/

majmun
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Re: With my background can I get into Patent Prosecution?

Postby majmun » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:38 pm

Gatorbull84 wrote:Redbird, Ya Im pretty dead set on patent work. Completing my first year has made the decision a lot harder.

Majmun, thanks a lot. I know Fl is a rough market but Im from there. I guess I would be willing to move if it meant I could get back to FL in a few years. If you don't mind me asking what is your phd in and was city did you start out in? From what Ive read I need to be looking at DC, Dallas, Boston, or Cali.

Thanks guys I really appreciate your help/


Bio Ph.D., I started in NY, but am now in a secondary market. I would strike Dallas (Tx is mostly engineering, and not the biomedical kind) and add Chicago.

Anonymous User
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Re: With my background can I get into Patent Prosecution?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:48 pm

I would not say that a PhD is necessary. A masters is necessary, but I wouldn't take it as far as a PhD. Whether a masters suffice depends on the rest of your background, such as grades and technical school prestige. I guess maybe the difficulty with describing it is the degree associated with "required." It certainly is a big factor, but not absolutely necessary. Perhaps when it is said that a PhD is "required," it's like saying a T14 degree is "required" to get into biglaw. This search might give you an idea of how much a PhD is required: https://www.google.com/search?q=phd&sit ... com%2Fjobs (One major caveat though, is that these jobs aren't entry level, so they're more lenient on the requirements).

Background: I'll be a patent attorney, but not in the biotech field.

Black-Blue
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Re: With my background can I get into Patent Prosecution?

Postby Black-Blue » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I would not say that a PhD is necessary. A masters is necessary, but I wouldn't take it as far as a PhD. Whether a masters suffice depends on the rest of your background, such as grades and technical school prestige. I guess maybe the difficulty with describing it is the degree associated with "required." It certainly is a big factor, but not absolutely necessary. Perhaps when it is said that a PhD is "required," it's like saying a T14 degree is "required" to get into biglaw. This search might give you an idea of how much a PhD is required: https://www.google.com/search?q=phd&sit ... com%2Fjobs (One major caveat though, is that these jobs aren't entry level, so they're more lenient on the requirements).

Background: I'll be a patent attorney, but not in the biotech field.

Sorry, didn't mean to be anon.

Gatorbull84
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Re: With my background can I get into Patent Prosecution?

Postby Gatorbull84 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:56 pm

thanks. Everyone seems to tell me that if I land the first job Im ok but they all say its in the air whether or not I can land that job

Anonymous User
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Re: With my background can I get into Patent Prosecution?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:49 pm

Hello! I'm a 0L patent agent with a BS in Genetics/Biochem. I've been working for a year. When I first started looking for a job, I was told by a lot of people that without a PhD I wasn't a good enough candidate to hire. If you network enough, you can find a job. It took me only 5 weeks after passing the patent bar to land a job, but I spent almost that entire 5 weeks on the phone getting new names and numbers from every person who turned me down for a job. It is possible, just letting you know.

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RedBirds2011
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Re: With my background can I get into Patent Prosecution?

Postby RedBirds2011 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hello! I'm a 0L patent agent with a BS in Genetics/Biochem. I've been working for a year. When I first started looking for a job, I was told by a lot of people that without a PhD I wasn't a good enough candidate to hire. If you network enough, you can find a job. It took me only 5 weeks after passing the patent bar to land a job, but I spent almost that entire 5 weeks on the phone getting new names and numbers from every person who turned me down for a job. It is possible, just letting you know.



You got a patent agent job with only a BS in biochem?! Wow, if that's true then bravo sir!

Gatorbull84
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Re: With my background can I get into Patent Prosecution?

Postby Gatorbull84 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:02 pm

Anonymous, thanks and if you don't mind me asking what city are you in?

Anonymous User
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Re: With my background can I get into Patent Prosecution?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:09 pm

Houston, TX. I work for a small firm and haven't handled any cases, prosecution or litigation, related to my field of study. Mostly oilfield and other odds and ends. One medical device patent application.

Anonymous User
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Re: With my background can I get into Patent Prosecution?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:11 pm

RedBirds2011 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hello! I'm a 0L patent agent with a BS in Genetics/Biochem. I've been working for a year. When I first started looking for a job, I was told by a lot of people that without a PhD I wasn't a good enough candidate to hire. If you network enough, you can find a job. It took me only 5 weeks after passing the patent bar to land a job, but I spent almost that entire 5 weeks on the phone getting new names and numbers from every person who turned me down for a job. It is possible, just letting you know.



You got a patent agent job with only a BS in biochem?! Wow, if that's true then bravo sir!


Ma'am :) Maybe my feminine wiles got me the job haha

BlackadderIn
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Re: With my background can I get into Patent Prosecution?

Postby BlackadderIn » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hello! I'm a 0L patent agent with a BS in Genetics/Biochem. I've been working for a year. When I first started looking for a job, I was told by a lot of people that without a PhD I wasn't a good enough candidate to hire. If you network enough, you can find a job. It took me only 5 weeks after passing the patent bar to land a job, but I spent almost that entire 5 weeks on the phone getting new names and numbers from every person who turned me down for a job. It is possible, just letting you know.


Wow! Since you are from Houston, can I get some more info on how you found your patent agent job? I just took LSAT but am also exploring other possibilities. If you can PM me, I would be so grateful!
Also, congrats on your admission!




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