3.383 at M, seeking OCI bidlist guidance

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3.383 at M, seeking OCI bidlist guidance

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:38 am

Das my gpa. Do i have a shot at DC? NYC? Firms i should target/avoid? Not sure whether im corporate or litigation yet. Can other michigan peeps give me advice on bidding strategy? Im worried about not getting many interviews since the firms within my range everyone will bid on (above median people as safetys, below median as reach).

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Re: 3.383 at M, seeking OCI bidlist guidance

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:24 pm

Anyone out there?

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Re: 3.383 at M, seeking OCI bidlist guidance

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:27 pm

where is the loveeee

bdubs
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Re: 3.383 at M, seeking OCI bidlist guidance

Postby bdubs » Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:43 pm

Get rid of the 3rd decimal place. I thought you had a 3.8 and your post was kind of silly.

There are lots of threads about bidding from median. Just read over them.

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Re: 3.383 at M, seeking OCI bidlist guidance

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:23 pm

bdubs wrote:Get rid of the 3rd decimal place. I thought you had a 3.8 and your post was kind of silly.

There are lots of threads about bidding from median. Just read over them.


In a different thread, someone said this same gpa would be considered a 3.4. Also, sliightly above median and i included all decimal points because it seems like small differences have a big impact in bidding/oci things. I still would appreciate some specific advice if anyone is so inclined to offer it.

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Re: 3.383 at M, seeking OCI bidlist guidance

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
bdubs wrote:Get rid of the 3rd decimal place. I thought you had a 3.8 and your post was kind of silly.

There are lots of threads about bidding from median. Just read over them.


In a different thread, someone said this same gpa would be considered a 3.4. Also, sliightly above median and i included all decimal points because it seems like small differences have a big impact in bidding/oci things. I still would appreciate some specific advice if anyone is so inclined to offer it.

I mean, I don't think it will be "considered" a 3.4 because it's not a 3.4 - it'll be considered a 3.38. Most firms don't feel the need to break down candidates into whole number candidates; they know a 3.38 is better than a 3.31, but not better than a 3.45. But those minor differences don't really matter - you're probably somewhere around top 35%, and even that still doesn't tell you that much.

I would look at the data OCS and figure out all of the NY firms in the 3.25-3.49 range and then bid accordingly. I would put the firms with largest class sizes and lower GPA averages in your top 10 and hope that you get 6-7 of them, put other popular top-1/3 firms in 11-20, and then load the more selective reaches into 20-30 range. Firms like Latham, Kirkland, GDC, White & Case, and Weil are some of your Reach or High-End Target firms (and some of them are popular enough to be ranked higher than the 20s), and firms below those are your Targets.

The reality is you won't get them all, so go into it knowing that. Just do what you can get to get as many as you can where you're competitive (and hopefully a fair number of reaches from the 20-30 range), and that's all you can really ask for.

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Re: 3.383 at M, seeking OCI bidlist guidance

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:17 pm

FlightoftheEarls wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
bdubs wrote:Get rid of the 3rd decimal place. I thought you had a 3.8 and your post was kind of silly.

There are lots of threads about bidding from median. Just read over them.


In a different thread, someone said this same gpa would be considered a 3.4. Also, sliightly above median and i included all decimal points because it seems like small differences have a big impact in bidding/oci things. I still would appreciate some specific advice if anyone is so inclined to offer it.

I mean, I don't think it will be "considered" a 3.4 because it's not a 3.4 - it'll be considered a 3.38. Most firms don't feel the need to break down candidates into whole number candidates; they know a 3.38 is better than a 3.31, but not better than a 3.45. But those minor differences don't really matter - you're probably somewhere around top 35%, and even that still doesn't tell you that much.

I would look at the data OCS and figure out all of the NY firms in the 3.25-3.49 range and then bid accordingly. I would put the firms with largest class sizes and lower GPA averages in your top 10 and hope that you get 6-7 of them, put other popular top-1/3 firms in 11-20, and then load the more selective reaches into 20-30 range. Firms like Latham, Kirkland, GDC, White & Case, and Weil are some of your Reach or High-End Target firms (and some of them are popular enough to be ranked higher than the 20s), and firms below those are your Targets.

The reality is you won't get them all, so go into it knowing that. Just do what you can get to get as many as you can where you're competitive (and hopefully a fair number of reaches from the 20-30 range), and that's all you can really ask for.


Very helpful! thank you. you think top 35%? i was assuming like top 45% (though again it doesnt really matter..). another question: on the data OCS supplies, what should i make of the 'low' gpas--like if a firm has data that they hired someone w a 2.5 but mean is higher than that. Can i assume a low gpa offer was a product of extenuating circumstances?

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Re: 3.383 at M, seeking OCI bidlist guidance

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
FlightoftheEarls wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
bdubs wrote:Get rid of the 3rd decimal place. I thought you had a 3.8 and your post was kind of silly.

There are lots of threads about bidding from median. Just read over them.


In a different thread, someone said this same gpa would be considered a 3.4. Also, sliightly above median and i included all decimal points because it seems like small differences have a big impact in bidding/oci things. I still would appreciate some specific advice if anyone is so inclined to offer it.

I mean, I don't think it will be "considered" a 3.4 because it's not a 3.4 - it'll be considered a 3.38. Most firms don't feel the need to break down candidates into whole number candidates; they know a 3.38 is better than a 3.31, but not better than a 3.45. But those minor differences don't really matter - you're probably somewhere around top 35%, and even that still doesn't tell you that much.

I would look at the data OCS and figure out all of the NY firms in the 3.25-3.49 range and then bid accordingly. I would put the firms with largest class sizes and lower GPA averages in your top 10 and hope that you get 6-7 of them, put other popular top-1/3 firms in 11-20, and then load the more selective reaches into 20-30 range. Firms like Latham, Kirkland, GDC, White & Case, and Weil are some of your Reach or High-End Target firms (and some of them are popular enough to be ranked higher than the 20s), and firms below those are your Targets.

The reality is you won't get them all, so go into it knowing that. Just do what you can get to get as many as you can where you're competitive (and hopefully a fair number of reaches from the 20-30 range), and that's all you can really ask for.


Very helpful! thank you. you think top 35%? i was assuming like top 45% (though again it doesnt really matter..). another question: on the data OCS supplies, what should i make of the 'low' gpas--like if a firm has data that they hired someone w a 2.5 but mean is higher than that. Can i assume a low gpa offer was a product of extenuating circumstances?

I generally do - particularly meaningful work experience that they're seeking or value (e.g., engineering for patent, bulge-bracket IB for corporate), a former paralegal of the particular firm, URM, a rare language that they happen to have an increasing demand for, or a combination of several of these. Mean and median are better predictors, but keep in mind that people a bit higher and a bit lower than those numbers often do get CBs and offers if they establish a solid enough connection with their interviewer(s).

As I mentioned, I think your range of worthwhile GPAs for bidding would be up to about a 3.49 unless you have any of those, but I know there rare occasions where people over-perform their GPAs by even higher numbers. For the sake of safety, however, that's the range I would be bidding in.

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Re: 3.383 at M, seeking OCI bidlist guidance

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:04 pm

What would your range be for closer to a 3.5 at M?

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Re: 3.383 at M, seeking OCI bidlist guidance

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What would your range be for closer to a 3.5 at M?

I have generally estimated that, with a median of 3.19 (but realistically 3.22-3.24), a 3.4 is around top 33-35%, a 3.5 is closer to top 25-28%, a 3.6 is close to top 16-18%, a 3.7 is close to top 10-12%, and a 3.8 is around top 5%. These are all 100% guesses, though. I wouldn't be surprised if they're not terribly far from the mark, but I could also be completely wrong.

Keep in mind that that percentages is pretty irrelevant, though. The only information we have is historical offer rates based on GPAs, and not class rankings.

ETA: In case you were talking about firm ranges for your bidding strategy, I'd personally probably bid primarily on firms anywhere in the 3.35 - 3.6 ranges.

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Re: 3.383 at M, seeking OCI bidlist guidance

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:49 am

FlightoftheEarls wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
bdubs wrote:Get rid of the 3rd decimal place. I thought you had a 3.8 and your post was kind of silly.

There are lots of threads about bidding from median. Just read over them.


In a different thread, someone said this same gpa would be considered a 3.4. Also, sliightly above median and i included all decimal points because it seems like small differences have a big impact in bidding/oci things. I still would appreciate some specific advice if anyone is so inclined to offer it.

I mean, I don't think it will be "considered" a 3.4 because it's not a 3.4 - it'll be considered a 3.38. Most firms don't feel the need to break down candidates into whole number candidates; they know a 3.38 is better than a 3.31, but not better than a 3.45. But those minor differences don't really matter - you're probably somewhere around top 35%, and even that still doesn't tell you that much.

I would look at the data OCS and figure out all of the NY firms in the 3.25-3.49 range and then bid accordingly. I would put the firms with largest class sizes and lower GPA averages in your top 10 and hope that you get 6-7 of them, put other popular top-1/3 firms in 11-20, and then load the more selective reaches into 20-30 range. Firms like Latham, Kirkland, GDC, White & Case, and Weil are some of your Reach or High-End Target firms (and some of them are popular enough to be ranked higher than the 20s), and firms below those are your Targets.

The reality is you won't get them all, so go into it knowing that. Just do what you can get to get as many as you can where you're competitive (and hopefully a fair number of reaches from the 20-30 range), and that's all you can really ask for.

How can i find information about summer associate class sizes? Also, any shot at DC or should i write that off. I feel like i have a much higher chance of coming out of OCI empty-handed from DC.

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Re: 3.383 at M, seeking OCI bidlist guidance

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
FlightoftheEarls wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
bdubs wrote:Get rid of the 3rd decimal place. I thought you had a 3.8 and your post was kind of silly.

There are lots of threads about bidding from median. Just read over them.


In a different thread, someone said this same gpa would be considered a 3.4. Also, sliightly above median and i included all decimal points because it seems like small differences have a big impact in bidding/oci things. I still would appreciate some specific advice if anyone is so inclined to offer it.

I mean, I don't think it will be "considered" a 3.4 because it's not a 3.4 - it'll be considered a 3.38. Most firms don't feel the need to break down candidates into whole number candidates; they know a 3.38 is better than a 3.31, but not better than a 3.45. But those minor differences don't really matter - you're probably somewhere around top 35%, and even that still doesn't tell you that much.

I would look at the data OCS and figure out all of the NY firms in the 3.25-3.49 range and then bid accordingly. I would put the firms with largest class sizes and lower GPA averages in your top 10 and hope that you get 6-7 of them, put other popular top-1/3 firms in 11-20, and then load the more selective reaches into 20-30 range. Firms like Latham, Kirkland, GDC, White & Case, and Weil are some of your Reach or High-End Target firms (and some of them are popular enough to be ranked higher than the 20s), and firms below those are your Targets.

The reality is you won't get them all, so go into it knowing that. Just do what you can get to get as many as you can where you're competitive (and hopefully a fair number of reaches from the 20-30 range), and that's all you can really ask for.

How can i find information about summer associate class sizes? Also, any shot at DC or should i write that off. I feel like i have a much higher chance of coming out of OCI empty-handed from DC.

Run a search on http://www.nalpdirectory.com/ for any firms you're interested in. You can't see next year's summer class size (obviously), but you can see the summer class sizes for this present summer and the previous two years for each listed office. Click on the "Recruitment & Hiring" page and look in the "Hiring Grid" section under "Summer."

I'm not an expert on D.C. (and didn't bid there myself), so I don't know how helpful I can be. I'd just strongly caution that D.C. is incredibly difficult. I know I probably wouldn't spend very many (if any) bids on D.C. without top 25% of so grades, but I am sure some people have managed it with less. I also have friends that struck out because they put all their eggs in the D.C. basket.




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