2012 UVA OGI Thread

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thesealocust
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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby thesealocust » Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Do 3Ls have any general advice in response to the timeline of offers? I tried searching for a consolidated thread like last year's "Offers and Dings LLP" and had no luck. So if your cb was on a Monday and you've run across other users who also had a cb on Monday and have received offers already and you've heard nothing, does that mean you're SOL?


Not always. Things can move very haphazardly. Probably not good news to have somebody hear before you, but it doesn't mean you're dead in the water. It's less ominous than during the screening phase, firms move at much more varied paces amongst their candidates for callbacks.

StanleyF
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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby StanleyF » Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:54 pm

thesealocust wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Do 3Ls have any general advice in response to the timeline of offers? I tried searching for a consolidated thread like last year's "Offers and Dings LLP" and had no luck. So if your cb was on a Monday and you've run across other users who also had a cb on Monday and have received offers already and you've heard nothing, does that mean you're SOL?


Not always. Things can move very haphazardly. Probably not good news to have somebody hear before you, but it doesn't mean you're dead in the water. It's less ominous than during the screening phase, firms move at much more varied paces amongst their candidates for callbacks.


Agreed. Remember that once firms extend offers, they have to keep them open for some period of time (30 days? It's on the NALP site). They don't want to have more open offers out there than they have spots in their summer program. If you haven't heard anything, it probably means that they will make you an offer if someone else declines an offer; it's kind of like being on the wait list. So until you've actually been dinged, you are very much still in the running. This is also why it's good to schedule callbacks as quickly as possible.

And it's also why, if you know you won't accept an offer, you should turn it down immediately.

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5ky
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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby 5ky » Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:35 pm

^While that is generally true (and anon definitely shouldn't assume a rejection yet), firms do keep more offers open than spots they have.

Anonymous User
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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:52 pm

Ugh, all this timing talk is frustrating. I ended up scheduling some earlier CBs with home secondary market firms I screened with before OGI and then got a surprising number of callbacks from the second week of OGI so most of my top (primary market) choices aren't for another week or more because they were scheduled out substantially already and the secondary markets I don't want as much are earlier on. I hope this won't screw me over too much. :? :?

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Ugh, all this timing talk is frustrating. I ended up scheduling some earlier CBs with home secondary market firms I screened with before OGI and then got a surprising number of callbacks from the second week of OGI so most of my top (primary market) choices aren't for another week or more because they were scheduled out substantially already and the secondary markets I don't want as much are earlier on. I hope this won't screw me over too much. :? :?

How is that going to screw you over? Just use your secondary CBs as practice to ace your primary ones.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:45 pm

Accidentally wrote this in last year's thread earlier, but has anyone heard from Watt Tieder, Nelson Mullins (DC), NYC Law Department, Kramon & Graham, or Troutman Sanders (DC)?

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:06 pm

For those who bid NY, have you gotten any reimbursement yet?

desertlaw
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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby desertlaw » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:For those who bid NY, have you gotten any reimbursement yet?


They take awhile. I remember last year it was like 6 weeks after, so I e-mailed the recruiting people to ask them on an update. A week later I got it.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:22 am

Anonymous User wrote:For those who bid NY, have you gotten any reimbursement yet?


I'm 2/6 for NY, and 0-for for other locations.

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BruceWayne
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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby BruceWayne » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:51 pm

desertlaw wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:1l here at uva. what seems to be the grade cut off for getting offers in big law or jag?

also, how are people faring at getting into markets they don't have specific ties to other than NYC and DC? I'm hoping to live in either LA or MIA.


PM me for LA/Cali questions. Most markets now-a-days want some sort of ties or a really good reason why you're not going to leave.

Grade cut-off for BigLaw depends on the market you're going to (biggest factor probably), followed by your work experience and how you interview. It seems like top 1/4 will open most all of the doors in NYC and many in DC. Top 1/3 will open many doors in NYC and some in D.C. Median will open some in NYC and not many in D.C. That's what it seemed like during last year's OGI. I'm not familiar with the Miami market or with jag. You'll need to talk to others.

But you're a freaking 1L. Enjoy your first month of 1L partying/mixers/events at this glorious place, then start worrying about exams and your performance against your peers. And then after you do 1L spring again, come back and ask us what your chances are. Until then, don't sweat it.



This is shockingly honest and needs to be shared with more people. I.E 50 % of the class has very low odds at biglaw based on grades alone.

albanach
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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby albanach » Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:39 pm

BruceWayne wrote:This is shockingly honest and needs to be shared with more people. I.E 50 % of the class has very low odds at biglaw based on grades alone.


That would imply that half the class are below median. I'd guess it is a good bit less than that. In many 1L classes almost half the class will get median with almost 25% above and below.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby somewhatwayward » Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:19 pm

albanach wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:This is shockingly honest and needs to be shared with more people. I.E 50 % of the class has very low odds at biglaw based on grades alone.


That would imply that half the class are below median. I'd guess it is a good bit less than that. In many 1L classes almost half the class will get median with almost 25% above and below.


LOL WUT? [insert lolwutpear.gif]

I am assuming you know that by definition 50% of the class are below median. The fact that B+ is median in a class, and 40% of the class gets a B+ has no bearing on the fact that when calculating GPAs, 50% of the class is below whatever the median is. I am assuming what you mean is that a significant chunk of the class is medianish in that probably half the class is between 3.2 and 3.4 or whatever, depending on standard deviation (knowing that if the distribution is normal, 68% are within one standard deviation of the mean in either direction, the mean being the same as the median if the distribution is normal).

Anyway median is not a magic cutoff where firms suddenly stop considering students. If median is a 3.3, firms don't choose the 3.3 over the 3.26 that they like better. They also probably don't draw fine distinctions between 3.28 and 3.17. There probably is a hard cutoff at a lot of unselective firms of maybe a 3.0 with no B-s (obviously the selective firms require more). However, you are not shut out of big law or mid law just because you are below median. Your chances go down, especially when you get below 3.0 or you have B-s, but every year a not insignificant number of below median people land big law. I would not bet 200K on it, but it does happen.

albanach
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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby albanach » Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:40 pm

somewhatwayward wrote:
LOL WUT? [insert lolwutpear.gif]

I am assuming you know that by definition 50% of the class are below median.


That would be the case if there were more possible grade distributions.

Where, for the most part, you can only get an A, an A-, a B+ a B or a B-, with the A and the B- being pretty rare, you can easily end up with a distribution so heavily centered around the B+ that well over half the class are at or above median.

For each and every course I've looked at, well over half the class get median or above. Usually something like 66-70% of the class will be at median or above.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:44 pm

albanach wrote:
somewhatwayward wrote:
LOL WUT? [insert lolwutpear.gif]

I am assuming you know that by definition 50% of the class are below median.


That would be the case if there were more possible grade distributions.

Where, for the most part, you can only get an A, an A-, a B+ a B or a B-, with the A and the B- being pretty rare, you can easily end up with a distribution so heavily centered around the B+ that well over half the class are at or above median.

For each and every course I've looked at, well over half the class get median or above. Usually something like 66-70% of the class will be at median or above.


The original point was that 70% of the class does not have a 3.3. Half the class has below a 3.3, and a I think a third of the class has below a 3.1 or 3.15 or something. That means 1 in 3 people is walking around with a 3.1 or below. So even though you're talking about something completely different, things are not as rosy as you seem to believe in any event.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:46 pm

(sorry, trying and failing to poast drunk)

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:56 pm

albanach wrote:
somewhatwayward wrote:
LOL WUT? [insert lolwutpear.gif]

I am assuming you know that by definition 50% of the class are below median.


That would be the case if there were more possible grade distributions.

Where, for the most part, you can only get an A, an A-, a B+ a B or a B-, with the A and the B- being pretty rare, you can easily end up with a distribution so heavily centered around the B+ that well over half the class are at or above median.

For each and every course I've looked at, well over half the class get median or above. Usually something like 66-70% of the class will be at median or above.


And for each course, 66-70% will be at or below median. Rank-wsie, once you get below top 1/3, it gets very fuzzy.

albanach
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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby albanach » Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:And for each course, 66-70% will be at or below median. Rank-wsie, once you get below top 1/3, it gets very fuzzy.


I've no idea why this comment was posted anonymously.

I don't dispute that 66-70% are at or below median, but that's irrelevant to the discussion above. What we were told was that for the top 1/3 there are lots of options. For folk at median doors should open.

It was then suggested that this meant 50% of the UVA class should be alerted to their poor prospects.

In fact only those below median fall outside the categories where it was stated that 'doors open', and that therefore substantially reduces the number. A false picture of career prospects was being painted if the original comment is taken as true.

Anonymous User
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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
albanach wrote:
somewhatwayward wrote:
LOL WUT? [insert lolwutpear.gif]

I am assuming you know that by definition 50% of the class are below median.


That would be the case if there were more possible grade distributions.

Where, for the most part, you can only get an A, an A-, a B+ a B or a B-, with the A and the B- being pretty rare, you can easily end up with a distribution so heavily centered around the B+ that well over half the class are at or above median.

For each and every course I've looked at, well over half the class get median or above. Usually something like 66-70% of the class will be at median or above.


And for each course, 66-70% will be at or below median. Rank-wsie, once you get below top 1/3, it gets very fuzzy.


I think this is obviously true when you include AT median. I mean I have seen grade distributions for 30 people classes that go: 1 A, 4A-, 20 B+, 4B
Thats it!
I also saw a small class of 15 that had 14 B+ and 1 A-

This looks like more than 50% can be at or above median. I know these are rare small classes, but I think it is actually possible to have more than half the class above median. I know it doesn't sound right......

Is there anyone posting here that actually had at or just below median grades that wants to chime in on their experience?

Anonymous User
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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
albanach wrote:
somewhatwayward wrote:
LOL WUT? [insert lolwutpear.gif]

I am assuming you know that by definition 50% of the class are below median.


That would be the case if there were more possible grade distributions.

Where, for the most part, you can only get an A, an A-, a B+ a B or a B-, with the A and the B- being pretty rare, you can easily end up with a distribution so heavily centered around the B+ that well over half the class are at or above median.

For each and every course I've looked at, well over half the class get median or above. Usually something like 66-70% of the class will be at median or above.


And for each course, 66-70% will be at or below median. Rank-wsie, once you get below top 1/3, it gets very fuzzy.


I think this is obviously true when you include AT median. I mean I have seen grade distributions for 30 people classes that go: 1 A, 4A-, 20 B+, 4B
Thats it!
I also saw a small class of 15 that had 14 B+ and 1 A-

This looks like more than 50% can be at or above median. I know these are rare small classes, but I think it is actually possible to have more than half the class above median. I know it doesn't sound right......

Is there anyone posting here that actually had at or just below median grades that wants to chime in on their experience?


Sure. I'm a 2L with a GPA slightly below 3.3, and I got market-paying biglaw in a major city to which I had strong ties this year. I also know of at least one 3L who was in my position last year and was able to do the same.

However, my offer was not through OGIs. I did a TON of work outside of regular OGIs - networking, job fairs, special requests, mass mailings, etc. So while it's possible, it's not easy and it probably also requires a bit of luck (i.e. meeting a hiring partner who really likes you and is willing to pull for you - so interviewing well is extremely important, too).

desertlaw
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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby desertlaw » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:53 pm

Not sure why a pretty old comment by me has gotten so much discussion. Nothing I said should be a surprise on anyone, nor does it say anything bad about UVa - it's more about the biglaw market and what grades it takes to "open doors" (where it's WE/interview ability/alpha-ness after that).

Top 1/4: NYC most doors open, DC many doors open

Top 1/3: NYC many doors open, DC doors open

Median: NYC doors open, DC a few doors open.

It's not surprise that if you're below top 1/3, you need to be prepared to mass-mail/network and not rely on OGI. You could get a job from OGI (plenty do) but you could strike out (plenty do). That's pretty much what Donovan/Career Services says in their summer packet to all of the rising 2L's.

Most of what I just said was based off extensive research during my 2L OGI summer (2011) and the experience of people I talked to. Whether that changed during 2012 OGI, I don't know. The few conversations I've had suggest it's about the same. But again, this is only DC/NYC. Cali/midwest/south/secondary markets all might be different but I don't have enough experience to know.

Regardless, I'm sure we can all agree that hopefully Obama can lock this thing up and help keep us all employed...

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:36 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
albanach wrote:
LOL WUT? [insert lolwutpear.gif]

I am assuming you know that by definition 50% of the class are below median.


That would be the case if there were more possible grade distributions.

Where, for the most part, you can only get an A, an A-, a B+ a B or a B-, with the A and the B- being pretty rare, you can easily end up with a distribution so heavily centered around the B+ that well over half the class are at or above median.

For each and every course I've looked at, well over half the class get median or above. Usually something like 66-70% of the class will be at median or above.


And for each course, 66-70% will be at or below median. Rank-wsie, once you get below top 1/3, it gets very fuzzy.


I think this is obviously true when you include AT median. I mean I have seen grade distributions for 30 people classes that go: 1 A, 4A-, 20 B+, 4B
Thats it!
I also saw a small class of 15 that had 14 B+ and 1 A-

This looks like more than 50% can be at or above median. I know these are rare small classes, but I think it is actually possible to have more than half the class above median. I know it doesn't sound right......

Is there anyone posting here that actually had at or just below median grades that wants to chime in on their experience?


Sure. I'm a 2L with a GPA slightly below 3.3, and I got market-paying biglaw in a major city to which I had strong ties this year. I also know of at least one 3L who was in my position last year and was able to do the same.

However, my offer was not through OGIs. I did a TON of work outside of regular OGIs - networking, job fairs, special requests, mass mailings, etc. So while it's possible, it's not easy and it probably also requires a bit of luck (i.e. meeting a hiring partner who really likes you and is willing to pull for you - so interviewing well is extremely important, too).[/quote]

I third/second that

I am below. not just slightly below.

I have four offers, and 3 are from market paying firms. It is not impossible. (in a market that is grade centric)

Anonymous User
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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:31 am

somewhatwayward wrote:
albanach wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:This is shockingly honest and needs to be shared with more people. I.E 50 % of the class has very low odds at biglaw based on grades alone.


That would imply that half the class are below median. I'd guess it is a good bit less than that. In many 1L classes almost half the class will get median with almost 25% above and below.


LOL WUT? [insert lolwutpear.gif]

I am assuming you know that by definition 50% of the class are below median. The fact that B+ is median in a class, and 40% of the class gets a B+ has no bearing on the fact that when calculating GPAs, 50% of the class is below whatever the median is. I am assuming what you mean is that a significant chunk of the class is medianish in that probably half the class is between 3.2 and 3.4 or whatever, depending on standard deviation (knowing that if the distribution is normal, 68% are within one standard deviation of the mean in either direction, the mean being the same as the median if the distribution is normal).

Anyway median is not a magic cutoff where firms suddenly stop considering students. If median is a 3.3, firms don't choose the 3.3 over the 3.26 that they like better. They also probably don't draw fine distinctions between 3.28 and 3.17. There probably is a hard cutoff at a lot of unselective firms of maybe a 3.0 with no B-s (obviously the selective firms require more). However, you are not shut out of big law or mid law just because you are below median. Your chances go down, especially when you get below 3.0 or you have B-s, but every year a not insignificant number of below median people land big law. I would not bet 200K on it, but it does happen.



I agree. My GPA is 2.9 from a top 30 school (Iowa) and I am accepting an offer to a firm in DC with a starting salary of 160K. Definitely possible.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:48 am

I missed it. Did Boies Schiller Las Vegas make offers?

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:24 am

How did ya'll do?




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