2012 UVA OGI Thread

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:It may have been covered earlier in the thread, so I'm sorry for a potential repeat question, but is there a general CB:offer ratio for bigger NY firms?

Maybe important, maybe not, but I'm on the lower end of their grade ranges (3.5), so I don't think my grades make me an auto-CB, so my interviewing must be okay (ie I don't think I'll majorly screw up CBs). Any guess about at what number of CBs I should start to get less nervous about getting a job?


In a similar situation. Have a large chunk of my screeners early on, and starting to freak out.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby BruceWayne » Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Contrary to BW, not everything is done by grades. I interviewed with them last year and had excellent grades (3.6+) and did not get an invite to the dinner. No callback, obviously. I got the impression they were looking for friendly, sociable people with good grades.I want to say that they had dinners for NYC and DC last year, maybe together (not sure), but my memory might be faulty. Someone who went should correct me.


It's amazing how poorly people read a post before they respond. What I was saying was NOT that high GPA guarantees a callback. In fact I specifically said that high GPA will not guarantee you a callback, but rather that a low GPA will definitely prohibit you from one because the larger firms have hard fast GPA cutoffs. Essentially the interviewers have the power to reject you for almost any reason, but they DON'T have the power to give you a callback if you fall below the GPA cutoff.

The other thing that people really aren't getting, but I guess that's because so many of the regular UVA posters on here have high GPA's, is that the idea that someone with a 3.5 got a callback over a someone with a 3.8 means that firms care more about "fit" and "aren't GPA focused" is straight LMAO material. No joke they rather have candidate A with a very high GPA but who can interview over candidate B with an absurd GPA who is awkward as hell. But because a firm is"digging down" to someone who beat out 80 percent of their UVA classmates as opposed to 93 percent does NOT mean that "fit" takes preeminance. Obviously no one wants to hire a weirdo, but the bottom line is that these firms do not flex on their GPA cutoffs absent a familial connection or something incredibly special. 3.1 isn't getting a callback from many of the big NYC firms coming to OGI regardless of fit or interview skills, and probably none from DC (excluding patent background).

RVP11 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Ouch, just got rejected from a home secondary market firm I actually met an alum partner from/sent my resume and writing sample to/etc. Median grades, plenty of OGI preselects so no glaring resume errors. This one hurts. Firm does not go to OGI but they are huge in this market


A lot of secondary market firms, especially if they're a market outside of UVA's home base, will auto reject applicants who don't have latin honors, law review, or are listed as being outside the top of the class. Firms like that often don't regularly hire from top schools outside their region so they aren't really that familiar with the school and don't give it a prestige boost. The only schools that are uniformly respected (i.e in every market) to the point where their grads are always given grade leeway are HYS.


This is true of only a very few secondary market firms. Most secondary market firms prefer to see top quarter or top third at UVA (assuming you have real ties) over top 10% at local schools.

I was top ~20% two years ago, mass mailed several secondary markets, and I received interviews or callbacks from at least 75% of the firms in cities where I had real ties. Most of the other firms weren't having summer classes that year. Only from a few firms did I get the feeling that I was auto-rejected because top 20% from UVA wasn't good enough.

OTOH, I had a friend who mass-mailed most of the same firms, with similar ties, but below-median grades, and he got a big stack of rejections. Going to UVA gives you some leeway, but being below-median is always difficult.



LOL man you guys really need to get some perspective. I'm happy you landed at the top of the class; but it's really warped your perspective of what leeway and good placement is. Needing to beat out 80 to 70 percent of your classmates at a school with a median ugrad GPA of 3.8 and median LSAT of 170 to equal top 10 percent at a regional is NOTHING to be excited about/consider it better to attend UVA over the regional. That's Charles Barkeley TURRIBLE as a matter of fact. The more relevant part of your post is what happend to the guy below median. No joke firms would love to have a top 20 percent person at UVA over a top 10 percent at a regional. But the likelihood that you'll be that high up in the class at UVA really isn't any better than your odds of being top 10 percent at a regional. I'm sorry but it's really not. The reality is that 3.3 and below is nothing special to many of these secondary market firms.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby thesealocust » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:It may have been covered earlier in the thread, so I'm sorry for a potential repeat question, but is there a general CB:offer ratio for bigger NY firms?

Maybe important, maybe not, but I'm on the lower end of their grade ranges (3.5), so I don't think my grades make me an auto-CB, so my interviewing must be okay (ie I don't think I'll majorly screw up CBs). Any guess about at what number of CBs I should start to get less nervous about getting a job?


3.5 is on the lower grade range for like, 5 firms in the entire country. And super high GPAs are not auto-CBs.

Anyway, the average major firm in a major market from UVA will give between 1/3 and 2/3 of their screening interviews callbacks. I've heard of everything from 80-90%+ to 10-20% conversion rate of screening interviews to callbacks amongst people with competitive grades for the firms they're looking at. It is a HIGHLY variable process, and basically impossible to benchmark yourself or figure out why firm X gave callbacks to candidates A and B but not C and D.

A close friend with similar credentials and I got mirror callbacks my year from two very similar firms - she got the firm I wanted and was dinged at the one she wanted, I got the one she wanted and was dinged at the one I wanted. Otherwise we had similar overall records and almost went to the same firm. Shit be weird.

BruceWayne wrote:The reality is that 3.3 and below is nothing special to many of these secondary market firms.


Getting a job from UVA at or below median, especially in the economy of the past few years, was indeed quite challenging.

Having said that, I know a lot of people with grades in the 3.1-3.3 range who struck out in major markets, mass-mailed regional firms they had ties to, and got jobs. I also know people with grades in that range who didn't have such luck - per my first point, that is/was a tough spot to be in ITE. But it's definitely realistic.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:38 pm

thesealocust wrote:
Anyway, the average major firm in a major market from UVA will give between 1/3 and 2/3 of their screening interviews callbacks. I've heard of everything from 80-90%+ to 10-20% conversion rate of screening interviews to callbacks amongst people with competitive grades for the firms they're looking at. It is a HIGHLY variable process, and basically impossible to benchmark yourself or figure out why firm X gave callbacks to candidates A and B but not C and D.


This is definitely helpful, so thank you, but what I was more curious about is once those 1/3 to 2/3 of people go on those callbacks, what percent of them get offers? Is it 1/3 to 2/3 again? Higher or lower?

I totally realize its a weird/unexplainable process, so if no one has a guess, that's cool too.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:43 pm

Can people start listing firms they have a CB/Ding from? Ballpark stats/Market/method of contact (phone, email) seems like the most helpful info.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby thesealocust » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:This is definitely helpful, so thank you, but what I was more curious about is once those 1/3 to 2/3 of people go on those callbacks, what percent of them get offers? Is it 1/3 to 2/3 again? Higher or lower?

I totally realize its a weird/unexplainable process, so if no one has a guess, that's cool too.


Major firms in major markets tend to have 1/2 to 2/3 offer rates at the CB stage, better odds than getting a callback from the screener but hardly a lock. A few firms are historically very high (S&C) and some are historically lower (other NYC V10 firms can be as low as 33%).

Small firms often have lower odds because they can afford to callback a decent group of people but only intend to make 1-2 offers to that pool of candidates.

Anonymous User wrote:Can people start listing firms they have a CB/Ding from? Ballpark stats/Market/method of contact (phone, email) seems like the most helpful info.


Personally I'd advise against doing this. It doesn't provide any useful information but does whip people into even more of a frenzy/ball of nerves than the process does on its own.

Never the less, people do it every year, but maybe in a separate thread if you must? So that people can come here for tips and info without having to subject themselves to the people who love to tell the world (anonymously) each time they get a CB?

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:54 pm

thesealocust wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Can people start listing firms they have a CB/Ding from? Ballpark stats/Market/method of contact (phone, email) seems like the most helpful info.


Personally I'd advise against doing this. It doesn't provide any useful information but does whip people into even more of a frenzy/ball of nerves than the process does on its own.

Never the less, people do it every year, but maybe in a separate thread if you must? So that people can come here for tips and info without having to subject themselves to the people who love to tell the world (anonymously) each time they get a CB?


As the anon at the top of this page, I find it useful (as I do your posts). Knowing where you stand or are likely to stand lets you know whether you might be doing something wrong/have to adjust your strategy. Especially when things happen so quickly in certain markets and OGI is but two weeks.

That said, I understand that dings are generally by snail mail, right?

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby thesealocust » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Can people start listing firms they have a CB/Ding from? Ballpark stats/Market/method of contact (phone, email) seems like the most helpful info.


Personally I'd advise against doing this. It doesn't provide any useful information but does whip people into even more of a frenzy/ball of nerves than the process does on its own.

Never the less, people do it every year, but maybe in a separate thread if you must? So that people can come here for tips and info without having to subject themselves to the people who love to tell the world (anonymously) each time they get a CB?


As the anon at the top of this page, I find it useful (as I do your posts). Knowing where you stand or are likely to stand lets you know whether you might be doing something wrong/have to adjust your strategy. Especially when things happen so quickly in certain markets and OGI is but two weeks.


Like I said, it happens every year, so my protestations clearly don't do much :lol:

My experience suggests that comparing yourself to others causes needless panic far more frequently than it provides timely information you can use to change course.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:06 pm

thesealocust wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Can people start listing firms they have a CB/Ding from? Ballpark stats/Market/method of contact (phone, email) seems like the most helpful info.


Personally I'd advise against doing this. It doesn't provide any useful information but does whip people into even more of a frenzy/ball of nerves than the process does on its own.

Never the less, people do it every year, but maybe in a separate thread if you must? So that people can come here for tips and info without having to subject themselves to the people who love to tell the world (anonymously) each time they get a CB?


As the anon at the top of this page, I find it useful (as I do your posts). Knowing where you stand or are likely to stand lets you know whether you might be doing something wrong/have to adjust your strategy. Especially when things happen so quickly in certain markets and OGI is but two weeks.


Like I said, it happens every year, so my protestations clearly don't do much :lol:

My experience suggests that comparing yourself to others causes needless panic far more frequently than it provides timely information you can use to change course.

I'm going to have to agree with sealocust and beg the people who want to compare to do so in a separate thread. After radio silence from Latham and Skadden NY, and no dinner invitation from Gibson, it still put a damper on my interviews today knowing that CBs had already gone out.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:37 pm

A new thread has been created.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:54 pm

Does anyone else feel like they've been performing way below their #s? I know it's only day 2 of ogi but I have had more interviews these past few days than I will have over the next days, and I've received 0 callbacks so far. I bid all NY, got a decent # of preselects, I'm on LR and around 15-20%, but it's been nothing but dead air for all of my firms. I have a feeling it might be my lack of WE or just something off with my interview strategy (I've been integrating my skills/experiences with every single answer tho, and sometimes I have really good chemistry with my interviewers), and this silence is making me nervous.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby thesealocust » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone else feel like they've been performing way below their #s?


Anonymous User wrote:I know it's only day 2 of ogi


Anonymous User wrote: it's only day 2 of ogi


Anonymous User wrote: day 2 of ogi


Relax.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:22 pm

Yes, yes, and yes to the previous anon. In almost the exact same situation. Hope you're right, sealocust. It's just scary when some of the firms with bigger class sizes go out, and you know you may be counting on something you have even less of a chance of converting. A lot of firms got packed into these first two days, and some have already made decisions.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone else feel like they've been performing way below their #s? I know it's only day 2 of ogi but I have had more interviews these past few days than I will have over the next days, and I've received 0 callbacks so far. I bid all NY, got a decent # of preselects, I'm on LR and around 15-20%, but it's been nothing but dead air for all of my firms. I have a feeling it might be my lack of WE or just something off with my interview strategy (I've been integrating my skills/experiences with every single answer tho, and sometimes I have really good chemistry with my interviewers), and this silence is making me nervous.


Are you sure that CBs for these firms have gone out? I'm LR (grades), and out of 9 interviews, I've only had one CB. Out of the 8 other firms, it doesn't appear that more than 2 have sent out CBs. I'd give it time.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:34 pm

How do people keep being positive?

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How do people keep being positive?


Hookers and blow?

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby thesealocust » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:40 pm

I actually just pulled up my email from this time two years ago to find a concrete example of why everyone should chill, here is my favorite quote. I wrote this corresponding with a friend at another school:

"My favorite example of the hysteria: [A person who applied to major market firms in places like NYC] with grades just below the law review cutoff has no callbacks as of [the third morning of OGI]; freaks out to everyone (including dean Donovan), and then has 5 callbacks by [the fourth morning of OGI]."

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:41 pm

Initial anon who's losing his/her shit:

Look, I know it's only day 2 but I've witnessed firsthand friends and classmates receiving responses from the following firms/offices (that have all made decisions within 24 hours): Skadden NY, Latham NY, Gibson Dunn NY/DC (dinner invitation = necessary for a cb at least), and white & case. Look, I understand that some firms are slower than others and send out cbs in waves, but at the same time, I've had NY interviewers say they make these decisions extremely quickly, often within a 24-48 hour window, and well, clock's ticking.

I'm sorry if I'm freaking people out, but I'd prefer to know sooner than later whether or not something is seriously wrong with my interviewing, so I can go talk to CSO to pinpoint problems and salvage the few interviews that I have next week.

Don't get me wrong, I'm def happy for everyone who's heard back so far but it's also really disheartening to watch people pick up their phones, get an ecstastic expression on their faces, and then dash out of the room to schedule a callback.




Ok I'm going to down several shots of tequila and call it an early night. Please do what I am refusing to do: keep calm and carry on.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Initial anon who's losing his/her shit:

Look, I know it's only day 2 but I've witnessed firsthand friends and classmates receiving responses from the following firms/offices (that have all made decisions within 24 hours): Skadden NY, Latham NY, Gibson Dunn NY/DC (dinner invitation = necessary for a cb at least), and white & case. I understand that some firms are slower than others and send out cbs in waves, but at the same time, I've had NY interviewers say they make these decisions extremely quickly, often within a 24-48 hour window, and well, clock's ticking.

I'm sorry if I'm freaking people out, but I'd prefer to know sooner than later whether or not something is seriously wrong with my interviewing, so I can go talk to CSO to pinpoint problems and salvage the few interviews that I have next week.

Don't get me wrong, I'm def happy for everyone who's heard back so far but it's also really disheartening to watch people pick up their phones, get an ecstastic expression on their faces, and then dash out of the room to schedule a callback.




Ok I'm going to down several shots of tequila and call it an early night. Please do what I am refusing to do: keep calm and carry on.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby thesealocust » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:45 pm

This is almost entirely out of your control at this point. Nobody who is fucking up their actual interviews so badly to be shooting themselves in the foot has the self awareness to realize it and correct it between the second and third day of OGI.

News will trickle in, and it is extremely early. Also, your classmates are cooler/chiller than most law students, but still obnoxious fuckbags as a group and the obnoxiousest, fuckbagiest of them will love nothing more than answer phones like that in the middle of the hallway. Try to tune it out, and realize it's a skewed perspective.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Initial anon who's losing his/her shit:

Look, I know it's only day 2 but I've witnessed firsthand friends and classmates receiving responses from the following firms/offices (that have all made decisions within 24 hours): Skadden NY, Latham NY, Gibson Dunn NY/DC (dinner invitation = necessary for a cb at least), and white & case. Look, I understand that some firms are slower than others and send out cbs in waves, but at the same time, I've had NY interviewers say they make these decisions extremely quickly, often within a 24-48 hour window, and well, clock's ticking.

I'm sorry if I'm freaking people out, but I'd prefer to know sooner than later whether or not something is seriously wrong with my interviewing, so I can go talk to CSO to pinpoint problems and salvage the few interviews that I have next week.

Don't get me wrong, I'm def happy for everyone who's heard back so far but it's also really disheartening to watch people pick up their phones, get an ecstastic expression on their faces, and then dash out of the room to schedule a callback.




Ok I'm going to down several shots of tequila and call it an early night. Please do what I am refusing to do: keep calm and carry on.


Other LR poster. With your grades, there are plenty of firms that are going to want you. Plenty. Just wait.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby jawsthegreat » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Initial anon who's losing his/her shit:

Look, I know it's only day 2 but I've witnessed firsthand friends and classmates receiving responses from the following firms/offices (that have all made decisions within 24 hours): Skadden NY, Latham NY, Gibson Dunn NY/DC (dinner invitation = necessary for a cb at least), and white & case. Look, I understand that some firms are slower than others and send out cbs in waves, but at the same time, I've had NY interviewers say they make these decisions extremely quickly, often within a 24-48 hour window, and well, clock's ticking.

I'm sorry if I'm freaking people out, but I'd prefer to know sooner than later whether or not something is seriously wrong with my interviewing, so I can go talk to CSO to pinpoint problems and salvage the few interviews that I have next week.

Don't get me wrong, I'm def happy for everyone who's heard back so far but it's also really disheartening to watch people pick up their phones, get an ecstastic expression on their faces, and then dash out of the room to schedule a callback.




Ok I'm going to down several shots of tequila and call it an early night. Please do what I am refusing to do: keep calm and carry on.


GDC dinner is not necessary for a CB. There were people last year who received offers w/o the dinner.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:52 pm

Thanks, y'all are the best.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:08 pm

Would it be at all skeevy if I emailed my summer employer (judge) to ask her if she can put in a good word for me for one of my firms? The interviewer for this firm clerked for her a few years ago.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby jawsthegreat » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Would it be at all skeevy if I emailed my summer employer (judge) to ask her if she can put in a good word for me for one of my firms? The interviewer for this firm clerked for her a few years ago.


I don't think that is a great idea. Though you could send an email along the lines of "hey judge x, just wanted to let you know I got interviewed by associate y today. They spoke very fondly of their time, etc, etc. small world, etc etc. Hope things are well"

Leave it up to the judge to take that initiative.




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