2012 UVA OGI Thread

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I got the impression that firms did a better job of giving PS and Alts to people who were more likely to take them. From personal experience, I'm in the top 10% and had a much higher rate of getting chosen by top firms than some lower ones I bid. I think that helped people along the gpa distribution to get more interviews with firms they're likely to land offers with.

Also, at least a few people with decent offers coming into OGI chose not to take the full 23 when they could have. Know of at least one who took less than 10. That might have opened up a few more interviews for folks just under top 10% (and then subsequently bumped a few more down, and so on).

And yes, Donovan is the shit.


I'll second that I know several people who declined most (or all) of their OGI interviews because they had already received an offer they wanted to take.

Of course, I'm not sure how that will translate to the rest of us getting CBs and offers even if we have lots of screeners. I've heard some talk about the ratio of conversion from screener to CB... any thoughts on the difference between PS/alt and lottery conversion rates?

Also curious about screener to offer conversion rates depending on whether the screener was a PS/alt or lottery.

And how about Special Request to offer conversion rates? Maybe somewhere in between?

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:30 pm

Recognizing that things might change each year, which firms are known for quick (or slow) notifications on whether you have a callback?

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I got the impression that firms did a better job of giving PS and Alts to people who were more likely to take them. From personal experience, I'm in the top 10% and had a much higher rate of getting chosen by top firms than some lower ones I bid. I think that helped people along the gpa distribution to get more interviews with firms they're likely to land offers with.

Also, at least a few people with decent offers coming into OGI chose not to take the full 23 when they could have. Know of at least one who took less than 10. That might have opened up a few more interviews for folks just under top 10% (and then subsequently bumped a few more down, and so on).

And yes, Donovan is the shit.


I'll second that I know several people who declined most (or all) of their OGI interviews because they had already received an offer they wanted to take.

Of course, I'm not sure how that will translate to the rest of us getting CBs and offers even if we have lots of screeners. I've heard some talk about the ratio of conversion from screener to CB... any thoughts on the difference between PS/alt and lottery conversion rates?

Also curious about screener to offer conversion rates depending on whether the screener was a PS/alt or lottery.

And how about Special Request to offer conversion rates? Maybe somewhere in between?


It is just incredibly hard to make any broad strokes generalizations. I mean, it seems obvious that PS conversion rates are higher- the firm wanted to talk to you, whereas lottery they did not necessarily want to. But there are so many factors that have an impact- how close were you to being qualified? Someone from the top 25% and the bottom 25% can both get lottery interviews from the same firm- obviously the better qualified person is going to have a better chance. There is simply no way to give any kind of conversion rate from screener to CB for lottery interviews. You know how relatively competitive the firms are and what your stats are. You have a much better information source to make the choice from that any catch-all rate someone could throw at you.

Special requests are kind of the same thing. Firms differ in how likely they are to take special requests. Your intuition that it is somewhere between the rates of preselects and lottery interviews is probably correct. But again, it depends on how close you are to the firm's requirements and how good of an interviewer you are.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Recognizing that things might change each year, which firms are known for quick (or slow) notifications on whether you have a callback?


Sullivan & Cromwell is quick. They usually tell people by the end of day of screeners.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby 5ky » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Recognizing that things might change each year, which firms are known for quick (or slow) notifications on whether you have a callback?


Sullivan & Cromwell is quick. They usually tell people by the end of day of screeners.


Most NYC firms were very fast, in my experience -- a few same day, most the day after. For the screeners I had on a Thursday, I got one the next day and some the following Monday.

As thesealocust notes, however, it is possible that you will get a CB a week or later after the screener, even if others have heard back. It's probably not that common (once the 24/48 hour window passed, I was rejected from all NYC firms I hadn't heard from), but it can happen.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby thesealocust » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:52 pm

Conversion rates: Preselects are more likely to convert to callbacks than lottery interviews by a large margin - but every year many people wind up at jobs that were lottery interviews, they're not 'just for show.' Conversion rates are highly individual - grades matter a lot, but other credentials, age/experience, personality/interview, and race/gender/diversity are all also big factors. Focus on what you can control right now. Generally, the better your grades relative to the firm's selectivity the less impressive interview/background can be.

The 'average' big firm gives something like 10-35% callbacks (it varies a lot by firm), so you can imagine that people who get 50%+ CBs are really killing it.

At the callback stage, some big firms will give 50-70%+ offers. Smaller firms are often a bit tougher at the callback stage (i.e. are more likely to to callback many people for fewer spots).

I obsesses about numbers as much as the next guy, but to repeat myself: focus now on what you can control. The odds of any given outcome don't matter, because the schedules are set. Just practice interviewing, research firms, and do your best to convert each interview into an offer. You'll either get it or you won't, whether you were the favorite or the longshot.

Timing: Big, major market law firms tend to give callbacks quickly. NYC is especially fast, with some firms trying to give same-day callbacks (but 24-48 hours is more likely).

Once a firm starts giving callbacks, generally you either get one or should expect a rejection via mail. There are always exceptions, however. One specific example: my year Skadden (NYC) gave a quick round of callbacks then a week or two later did another fairly substantial round of callbacks. Don't hold out too much hope for firms that have given CBs to others if you haven't gotten one, but also realize it's not out of the question.

The waiting sucks. Psychologically I'd advise you to keep your head down and avoid tracking what firms are giving CBs, but every year people do it (and inevitably some people with no tact talk loudly and publicly about all the CBs they're receiving).

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone below median want to chime in on distribution of interviews they got?

Bottom 10-15% here, got 1-6PS, 5-14 Lottery Slots.


3.24. 18 PS, 8alts -> 3 interviews, 2 lottery

All secondary market except 3 DC firms

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:14 pm

Whoa. Did anyone not get 20+ interviews?

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby 5ky » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Whoa. Did anyone not get 20+ interviews?


Per the email, it looks like 20-25% have 15 or fewer. Still, pretty good result.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby thesealocust » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:31 pm

NY to 190?

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby plenipotentiary » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:44 pm

thesealocust wrote:NY to 190?


KD to 190! It's ridiculous that first years make about as much as he does.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Whoa. Did anyone not get 20+ interviews?

Is this different from last year? I don't get the impression that there are far more interview slots/firms this year, but maybe I'm wrong.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:46 pm

5ky wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Whoa. Did anyone not get 20+ interviews?


Per the email, it looks like 20-25% have 15 or fewer. Still, pretty good result.


Indeed. This is a good reminder to be tactful as semester approaches.

Some in your section, perhaps even some of your close friends, may not have been this fortunate. Perhaps they had bad grades, perhaps they had a bidding strategy that didn't pan out.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Whoa. Did anyone not get 20+ interviews?

Is this different from last year? I don't get the impression that there are far more interview slots/firms this year, but maybe I'm wrong.


Last year I had a 3.5 and had 4 preselects/ 9 alternates. Ended up w/ 18 interviews total.

Seems much better.

PS: I also did not bid DC

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Whoa. Did anyone not get 20+ interviews?

Is this different from last year? I don't get the impression that there are far more interview slots/firms this year, but maybe I'm wrong.


Last year I had a 3.5 and had 4 preselects/ 9 alternates. Ended up w/ 18 interviews total.

Seems much better.

PS: I also did not bid DC


I'm median and have 17, so there's another data point. I'm optimistic about getting a few special requests though b/c there are still a few firms that had me as an alternate that I don't have on my schedule yet.

-Kendrick Perkins

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone below median want to chime in on distribution of interviews they got?

Bottom 10-15% here, got 1-6PS, 5-14 Lottery Slots.


3.24. 18 PS, 8alts -> 3 interviews, 2 lottery

All secondary market except 3 DC firms


CONGRATS.

You must be amazing!

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:15 am

I got 1 lottery interview to push my total to 9. I'm guessing that meant poor bid ranking?

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby jawsthegreat » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:I got 1 lottery interview to push my total to 9. I'm guessing that meant poor bid ranking?


What was your bidding strategy? With 9 interviews you need to start a massive mailing campaign.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:07 pm

Is it silly to try and schedule callbacks on days during OGI that I don't have interviews? I got some from outside of OGI interviews and they're in DC so I could probably drive up for them, but be pretty tired the next day. Good idea/bad idea?

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is it silly to try and schedule callbacks on days during OGI that I don't have interviews? I got some from outside of OGI interviews and they're in DC so I could probably drive up for them, but be pretty tired the next day. Good idea/bad idea?


You will be fine. Many of you are making OGI out to be much more difficult than it actually is. By the end you will be tired of it, but it is really not that tough.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is it silly to try and schedule callbacks on days during OGI that I don't have interviews? I got some from outside of OGI interviews and they're in DC so I could probably drive up for them, but be pretty tired the next day. Good idea/bad idea?


You will be fine. Many of you are making OGI out to be much more difficult than it actually is. By the end you will be tired of it, but it is really not that tough.


Firms in DC we have callbacks with will expect us to drive up and back in the same day correct? I know for other cities they reimburse flights and hotels, anything from DC firms? What about those of us without cars?

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby thesealocust » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Firms in DC we have callbacks with will expect us to drive up and back in the same day correct?


Absolutely not! Of course, you certainly can if you want to (and you'll get reimbursed for mileage). When I did OGI I only had a motorcycle (suboptimal for business travel) and firms were happy to book travel - and cover the industry standard 1 night of lodging per callback.

From cville to DC the train made a lot of sense. Depending on how tight the schedule is the firm would probably spring for a flight if need be, and you might even negotiate a car rental or something.

A firm once put me in a sleeper car for the train ride to DC because nothing else was available. I didn't even know they'd done it until the Amtrak boarding agent gave me a funny look when I showed him my ticket.

Major firm travel departments aren't going to comp you a suite or a first class ticket because they love you, but they approach their business from a "make this work with an enormous budget" point of view, not an "I am a massively indebted law student and need to only make reasonable choices" point of view.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:02 pm

For callbacks to NY, can you negotiate with firms to take the train instead of a flight? I've had extremely poor experiences with the Charlottesville airport, with flights getting delayed or cancelled at the last minute, and I was thinking of taking the Amtrak up a day early and staying with friends/family in the city.

- Don Draper

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby thesealocust » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:For callbacks to NY, can you negotiate with firms to take the train instead of a flight? I've had extremely poor experiences with the Charlottesville airport, with flights getting delayed or cancelled at the last minute, and I was thinking of taking the Amtrak up a day early and staying with friends/family in the city.

- Don Draper


Probably - but cville -> NYC is surprisingly unshitty because it's a direct flight. Amtrak, on the other hand, will at least stop and potentially require a transfer in DC. And while a canceled train is probably less likely than a canceled flight, delays are on the rail are quite common.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:09 pm

thesealocust wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Firms in DC we have callbacks with will expect us to drive up and back in the same day correct?


Absolutely not! Of course, you certainly can if you want to (and you'll get reimbursed for mileage). When I did OGI I only had a motorcycle (suboptimal for business travel) and firms were happy to book travel - and cover the industry standard 1 night of lodging per callback.

From cville to DC the train made a lot of sense. Depending on how tight the schedule is the firm would probably spring for a flight if need be, and you might even negotiate a car rental or something.

A firm once put me in a sleeper car for the train ride to DC because nothing else was available. I didn't even know they'd done it until the Amtrak boarding agent gave me a funny look when I showed him my ticket.

Major firm travel departments aren't going to comp you a suite or a first class ticket because they love you, but they approach their business from a "make this work with an enormous budget" point of view, not an "I am a massively indebted law student and need to only make reasonable choices" point of view.


Oh thanks so much! Thats really helpful to know (and obviously not at all what I was expecting).




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