2012 UVA OGI Thread

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:3.33 K-JD Checking in

5 Pre-selects (2 NY, 3 Secondary)
8 Alternates (4 NY, 4 Secondary)

Does this seem standard? Want to make sure there's no glaring problem with my app materials since I'm still mailing other firms.


Definitely seems standard; that's a lot of preselects for someone at the median and k-JD. Good luck, but don't forget to mass mail.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby 5ky » Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:3.33 K-JD Checking in

5 Pre-selects (2 NY, 3 Secondary)
8 Alternates (4 NY, 4 Secondary)

Does this seem standard? Want to make sure there's no glaring problem with my app materials since I'm still mailing other firms.


Definitely seems standard; that's a lot of preselects for someone at the median and k-JD. Good luck, but don't forget to mass mail.


Seems about right. Hopefully you'll get some Alternate --> Preselect, a good number of lottery, and don't forget to special request as many firms as you can + hustle at hospitality suites.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:26 pm

5ky wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:3.33 K-JD Checking in

5 Pre-selects (2 NY, 3 Secondary)
8 Alternates (4 NY, 4 Secondary)

Does this seem standard? Want to make sure there's no glaring problem with my app materials since I'm still mailing other firms.


Definitely seems standard; that's a lot of preselects for someone at the median and k-JD. Good luck, but don't forget to mass mail.


Seems about right. Hopefully you'll get some Alternate --> Preselect, a good number of lottery, and don't forget to special request as many firms as you can + hustle at hospitality suites.



Great, thanks you two. I will definitely keep hustling.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:10 am

Bottom 1/3, work experience, non-urm:

9 Pre-selects, 4 alternates (all major markets, no NY).

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:13 am

Probably a better question to ask 3Ls, but does anyone know how often V25 alternates turn into preselects (Weil, Debevoise, Boies Schiller)?

I'm considering accepting only 20 preselects in the hopes that some of the alternates turn into preselects, and in the event that I don't get more preselects, that I pick up some of the firms that didn't invite me through the lottery (they're ranked 1, 2, and 3, so I should have some luck there).

Hope that makes sense. Any advice regarding that strategy?

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:Probably a better question to ask 3Ls, but does anyone know how often V25 alternates turn into preselects (Weil, Debevoise, Boies Schiller)?

I'm considering accepting only 20 preselects in the hopes that some of the alternates turn into preselects, and in the event that I don't get more preselects, that I pick up some of the firms that didn't invite me through the lottery (they're ranked 1, 2, and 3, so I should have some luck there).

Hope that makes sense. Any advice regarding that strategy?


I suggest looking at how many interview slots there are for each of the alternates. The more interview slots, the more likely that a slot could open up.

Honestly though, it's really hard to predict which alternates will lead to spots. For higher-ranked firms, you could argue either that (1) fewer will drop out because the firm is well-regarded or (2) more will drop out because people are accepting interviews conservatively, thinking they don't have a shot.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:31 am

How sure of a bet are SRs? I am thinking of dropping one PS to make me eligible for to SR. I got a lot of firms who don't really do M&A, which is what I think I want to do. KD has seemed to draw a line in the sand this year prohibiting SRing with more than 23.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:32 am

Anonymous User wrote:Probably a better question to ask 3Ls, but does anyone know how often V25 alternates turn into preselects (Weil, Debevoise, Boies Schiller)?

I'm considering accepting only 20 preselects in the hopes that some of the alternates turn into preselects, and in the event that I don't get more preselects, that I pick up some of the firms that didn't invite me through the lottery (they're ranked 1, 2, and 3, so I should have some luck there).

Hope that makes sense. Any advice regarding that strategy?


Same poster above with a follow up question. Anyone have any success with firms that initially didn't invite them?

I'm basically curious as to whether it's wise to try and interview with a firm that didn't invite me at all.

The firms that didn't invite me aren't reaches based on my GPA, so it seems strange that I wasn't invited in the first place.

Any comments are appreciated.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Law Sauce » Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:36 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Probably a better question to ask 3Ls, but does anyone know how often V25 alternates turn into preselects (Weil, Debevoise, Boies Schiller)?

I'm considering accepting only 20 preselects in the hopes that some of the alternates turn into preselects, and in the event that I don't get more preselects, that I pick up some of the firms that didn't invite me through the lottery (they're ranked 1, 2, and 3, so I should have some luck there).

Hope that makes sense. Any advice regarding that strategy?


Same poster above with a follow up question. Anyone have any success with firms that initially didn't invite them?

I'm basically curious as to whether it's wise to try and interview with a firm that didn't invite me at all.

The firms that didn't invite me aren't reaches based on my GPA, so it seems strange that I wasn't invited in the first place.

Any comments are appreciated.


I lot of firms just can only pick so few kids (like 1 out every 8 that bids them), especially if they only have one room (then its 14 out of, for many firms 110+). Does not mean that they wouldn't be interested, although I would be careful to be sure you are well within their gpa ranges.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby 5ky » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:19 am

Anonymous User wrote:How sure of a bet are SRs? I am thinking of dropping one PS to make me eligible for to SR. I got a lot of firms who don't really do M&A, which is what I think I want to do. KD has seemed to draw a line in the sand this year prohibiting SRing with more than 23.


Don't do this without asking KD, although you said he has been more strict about it this year. If it's a firm like SullCrom or something, he might let you. Email him and ask whether you would be able to without dropping a preselect.
Last edited by 5ky on Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby 5ky » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:23 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Probably a better question to ask 3Ls, but does anyone know how often V25 alternates turn into preselects (Weil, Debevoise, Boies Schiller)?

I'm considering accepting only 20 preselects in the hopes that some of the alternates turn into preselects, and in the event that I don't get more preselects, that I pick up some of the firms that didn't invite me through the lottery (they're ranked 1, 2, and 3, so I should have some luck there).

Hope that makes sense. Any advice regarding that strategy?


Same poster above with a follow up question. Anyone have any success with firms that initially didn't invite them?

I'm basically curious as to whether it's wise to try and interview with a firm that didn't invite me at all.

The firms that didn't invite me aren't reaches based on my GPA, so it seems strange that I wasn't invited in the first place.

Any comments are appreciated.


If those are your top 3 firms, I'd tell you the same thing -- don't drop any preselects, and ask KD whether you could special request one or two of those firms (I suspect he would be willing for Debevoise and Boies, as those are very selective firms). If your gpa is >3.7, I might be more willing to risk it and drop a few. edit: I see that KD has supposedly been more strict about not being allowed to SR if you are at the cap. I'd still ask, particularly for Boies and maybe Debevoise, since the only people competitive there will probably be at/close to the cap, anyway.

Don't, however, drop any preselects in the hopes that your alternates will turn into preselects. You can take accept alternates even if you are at the 23 cap.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:32 am

Law Sauce wrote:I lot of firms just can only pick so few kids (like 1 out every 8 that bids them), especially if they only have one room (then its 14 out of, for many firms 110+). Does not mean that they wouldn't be interested, although I would be careful to be sure you are well within their gpa ranges.


I keep hearing this: just because you didn't get a preselect from a firm, that doesn't mean the firm wouldn't hire you (as long as you're in their grade range).

Does that also mean that even if you do have a preselect from a firm that generally gets 100+ bids, your shot at a callback/offer isn't any better than the people who didn't get a preselect? I thought the whole point of the preselect system was to increase the callback:interview ratio (and bring more firms to campus, obviously).
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:36 am

5ky wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Probably a better question to ask 3Ls, but does anyone know how often V25 alternates turn into preselects (Weil, Debevoise, Boies Schiller)?

I'm considering accepting only 20 preselects in the hopes that some of the alternates turn into preselects, and in the event that I don't get more preselects, that I pick up some of the firms that didn't invite me through the lottery (they're ranked 1, 2, and 3, so I should have some luck there).

Hope that makes sense. Any advice regarding that strategy?


Same poster above with a follow up question. Anyone have any success with firms that initially didn't invite them?

I'm basically curious as to whether it's wise to try and interview with a firm that didn't invite me at all.

The firms that didn't invite me aren't reaches based on my GPA, so it seems strange that I wasn't invited in the first place.

Any comments are appreciated.


If those are your top 3 firms, I'd tell you the same thing -- don't drop any preselects, and ask KD whether you could special request one or two of those firms (I suspect he would be willing for Debevoise and Boies, as those are very selective firms). If your gpa is >3.7, I might be more willing to risk it and drop a few. edit: I see that KD has supposedly been more strict about not being allowed to SR if you are at the cap. I'd still ask, particularly for Boies and maybe Debevoise, since the only people competitive there will probably be at/close to the cap, anyway.

Don't, however, drop any preselects in the hopes that your alternates will turn into preselects. You can take accept alternates even if you are at the 23 cap.


GPA is 3.62 - If I accept all my preselects, then there's no hope for me to pick up any of my top firms in the lottery.

Also - assuming I accept 23 preselects and then have alternates turn into preselects, my bid order will dictate what interviews I get, correct?

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby 5ky » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:39 am

Anonymous User wrote:
5ky wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Probably a better question to ask 3Ls, but does anyone know how often V25 alternates turn into preselects (Weil, Debevoise, Boies Schiller)?

I'm considering accepting only 20 preselects in the hopes that some of the alternates turn into preselects, and in the event that I don't get more preselects, that I pick up some of the firms that didn't invite me through the lottery (they're ranked 1, 2, and 3, so I should have some luck there).

Hope that makes sense. Any advice regarding that strategy?


Same poster above with a follow up question. Anyone have any success with firms that initially didn't invite them?

I'm basically curious as to whether it's wise to try and interview with a firm that didn't invite me at all.

The firms that didn't invite me aren't reaches based on my GPA, so it seems strange that I wasn't invited in the first place.

Any comments are appreciated.


If those are your top 3 firms, I'd tell you the same thing -- don't drop any preselects, and ask KD whether you could special request one or two of those firms (I suspect he would be willing for Debevoise and Boies, as those are very selective firms). If your gpa is >3.7, I might be more willing to risk it and drop a few. edit: I see that KD has supposedly been more strict about not being allowed to SR if you are at the cap. I'd still ask, particularly for Boies and maybe Debevoise, since the only people competitive there will probably be at/close to the cap, anyway.

Don't, however, drop any preselects in the hopes that your alternates will turn into preselects. You can take accept alternates even if you are at the 23 cap.


GPA is 3.62 - If I accept all my preselects, then there's no hope for me to pick up any of my top firms in the lottery.

Also - assuming I accept 23 preselects and then have alternates turn into preselects, my bid order will dictate what interviews I get, correct?


5ky wrote:Okay, this is important, guys. Unless they've changed things from last year:

1. You can accept the maximum of preselects and then as many alternates as you want on top of that. Example: if you have 27 preselects and 5 alternates, you can take 23 preselects and 7 alternates. DO NOT decline preselects just so you can take alternates.

From last year:
Kevin Donovan wrote:A number of people have asked about strategy for and effect of accepting or declining alternate slots. Here are a few points to supplement what is in the Handbook. You cannot accept more than 20 pre-select interviews. You can accept a combined total of more than 20 pre-selections plus alternates, but you cannot end up with more than 20 interviews. Our formal policy is that if, through either of these avenues, you receive more than 20 interviews, we have the right to cut you to 20 by eliminating the ones that were lowest on your bid list. From a practical standpoint, however, I never do this without attempting to reach the student to get input. As long as I can easily reach you during the scheduling period (next Thursday through Saturday), we should not have a problem with adjusting your interview list. You will just need to be prepared to make quick decisions about what will go if you exceed 20.


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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:56 pm

Trying to reconcile this:

"Can you accept interviews and alternates that total more than 23?

Yes. But if you end up receiving a slot for an alternate
and have more than 23 on your list, you will only get
interviews for your 23 top‐ranked firms (assuming that
all can be scheduled)."

with this:

"August 1, 2012 (August session)

This is the deadline to accept / decline pre‐select interviews. You can accept up
to 23 interviews. If you have been offered more than 23, you must decline
enough to get down to 23."

The first excerpt makes it seem like you have no control after you've accepted preselects/alternates, while the latter makes it seem like there's some control.

Sorry for all of the posts - this shit is confusing.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Heat » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Trying to reconcile this:

"Can you accept interviews and alternates that total more than 23?

Yes. But if you end up receiving a slot for an alternate
and have more than 23 on your list, you will only get
interviews for your 23 top‐ranked firms (assuming that
all can be scheduled)."

with this:

"August 1, 2012 (August session)

This is the deadline to accept / decline pre‐select interviews. You can accept up
to 23 interviews. If you have been offered more than 23, you must decline
enough to get down to 23."

The first excerpt makes it seem like you have no control after you've accepted preselects/alternates, while the latter makes it seem like there's some control.

Sorry for all of the posts - this shit is confusing.


In principle you have no control. However, KD said that you would be called before hand in order to try to ascertain which interviews you wanted to keep. If your unavailable then it will go by how you ranked them before the bid deadline.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby dixon02 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Trying to reconcile this:

"Can you accept interviews and alternates that total more than 23?

Yes. But if you end up receiving a slot for an alternate
and have more than 23 on your list, you will only get
interviews for your 23 top‐ranked firms (assuming that
all can be scheduled)."

with this:

"August 1, 2012 (August session)

This is the deadline to accept / decline pre‐select interviews. You can accept up
to 23 interviews. If you have been offered more than 23, you must decline
enough to get down to 23."

The first excerpt makes it seem like you have no control after you've accepted preselects/alternates, while the latter makes it seem like there's some control.

Sorry for all of the posts - this shit is confusing.


You cannot accept more than 23 preselects. This does not include alternates. If you have more than 23 preselects, you must decline enough to get down to 23. You may accept as many alternates as you want, regardless of how many preselects you have. After they receive this information, they will start filling in the alternates. If, after doing so, you have more than 23 interviews, they will cap you at your highest ranked 23. They will try to get ahold of you first and ask for your input on how to cut you down to 23; if they don't get ahold of you, they default to your rankings.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby 5ky » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:31 pm

I will note that I was emailed, and not called, and that had I slept late, I would have missed the deadline for getting back to KD. I knew that I would be needed, though, so I checked my phone and email every few hours or so. I'd recommend you do the same when the day comes.

e: I had about 7 hours to get back to him and make my changes, although he emailed me at something absurd like 4 am.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:05 pm

I am thinking about doing the same as one of the posters above (dropping down to 20 PS), although my GPA is in the low 3.5 range instead. Basically, there a ton of firms I have alternates for and high lottery picks on that I didn't get, and would much rather have over some of the PS I do have (the ones I'm thinking of dropping are secondary firms that don't pay market). I thought dropping down to 20 would seem safe since last year that's what the limit was, right? I'm pretty sure I could get at least 1 offer with 20 PS... but if this is a terrible idea someone tell me I'm an idiot.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am thinking about doing the same as one of the posters above (dropping down to 20 PS), although my GPA is in the low 3.5 range instead. Basically, there a ton of firms I have alternates for and high lottery picks on that I didn't get, and would much rather have over some of the PS I do have (the ones I'm thinking of dropping are secondary firms that don't pay market). I thought dropping down to 20 would seem safe since last year that's what the limit was, right? I'm pretty sure I could get at least 1 offer with 20 PS... but if this is a terrible idea someone tell me I'm an idiot.


That seems pretty logical to me, I thought about doing something similar, my GPA is also in the low 3.5 range. I'm an alternate for my top three firms and would love the opportunity to get them either through the lottery or possibly converted to a PS (although its seeming less likely that the ones I want will convert).

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby 5ky » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am thinking about doing the same as one of the posters above (dropping down to 20 PS), although my GPA is in the low 3.5 range instead. Basically, there a ton of firms I have alternates for and high lottery picks on that I didn't get, and would much rather have over some of the PS I do have (the ones I'm thinking of dropping are secondary firms that don't pay market). I thought dropping down to 20 would seem safe since last year that's what the limit was, right? I'm pretty sure I could get at least 1 offer with 20 PS... but if this is a terrible idea someone tell me I'm an idiot.


That seems pretty logical to me, I thought about doing something similar, my GPA is also in the low 3.5 range. I'm an alternate for my top three firms and would love the opportunity to get them either through the lottery or possibly converted to a PS (although its seeming less likely that the ones I want will convert).


Up to you guys, should be fine. I can't tell from the way you are phrasing though, so to make sure: you can accept 23 preselects + as many alternates as you would like.

But, if after alternates convert into preselects, you have 23 or more, you won't participate in the lottery. So if you take 20 preselects and 7 alternates, and 3 or more convert, you won't be participating in the lottery.

I personally played by the "I'd rather be interviewing at a firm that preselected or alternated me than a lottery," but that's somewhat risk averse.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Law Sauce » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:31 pm

Anyone know if the late picks from Mayer Brown (offices besides DC) are in yet?

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:38 pm

5ky wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am thinking about doing the same as one of the posters above (dropping down to 20 PS), although my GPA is in the low 3.5 range instead. Basically, there a ton of firms I have alternates for and high lottery picks on that I didn't get, and would much rather have over some of the PS I do have (the ones I'm thinking of dropping are secondary firms that don't pay market). I thought dropping down to 20 would seem safe since last year that's what the limit was, right? I'm pretty sure I could get at least 1 offer with 20 PS... but if this is a terrible idea someone tell me I'm an idiot.


That seems pretty logical to me, I thought about doing something similar, my GPA is also in the low 3.5 range. I'm an alternate for my top three firms and would love the opportunity to get them either through the lottery or possibly converted to a PS (although its seeming less likely that the ones I want will convert).


Up to you guys, should be fine. I can't tell from the way you are phrasing though, so to make sure: you can accept 23 preselects + as many alternates as you would like.

But, if after alternates convert into preselects, you have 23 or more, you won't participate in the lottery. So if you take 20 preselects and 7 alternates, and 3 or more convert, you won't be participating in the lottery.

I personally played by the "I'd rather be interviewing at a firm that preselected or alternated me than a lottery," but that's somewhat risk averse.

Right. Plan is to take 20 PS (I have 25) and about 7 or 8 alternates. If the alts take me to 23, fine; if not, then my top firm is my #1 bid for the lottery, so I'd have a good shot there. And if I get nothing at all and stay at 20, at least i tried, and I should get something from my 20 interviews. I think it's a solid strategy, at least in my head.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
5ky wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am thinking about doing the same as one of the posters above (dropping down to 20 PS), although my GPA is in the low 3.5 range instead. Basically, there a ton of firms I have alternates for and high lottery picks on that I didn't get, and would much rather have over some of the PS I do have (the ones I'm thinking of dropping are secondary firms that don't pay market). I thought dropping down to 20 would seem safe since last year that's what the limit was, right? I'm pretty sure I could get at least 1 offer with 20 PS... but if this is a terrible idea someone tell me I'm an idiot.


That seems pretty logical to me, I thought about doing something similar, my GPA is also in the low 3.5 range. I'm an alternate for my top three firms and would love the opportunity to get them either through the lottery or possibly converted to a PS (although its seeming less likely that the ones I want will convert).


Up to you guys, should be fine. I can't tell from the way you are phrasing though, so to make sure: you can accept 23 preselects + as many alternates as you would like.

But, if after alternates convert into preselects, you have 23 or more, you won't participate in the lottery. So if you take 20 preselects and 7 alternates, and 3 or more convert, you won't be participating in the lottery.

I personally played by the "I'd rather be interviewing at a firm that preselected or alternated me than a lottery," but that's somewhat risk averse.

Right. Plan is to take 20 PS (I have 25) and about 7 or 8 alternates. If the alts take me to 23, fine; if not, then my top firm is my #1 bid for the lottery, so I'd have a good shot there. And if I get nothing at all and stay at 20, at least i tried, and I should get something from my 20 interviews. I think it's a solid strategy, at least in my head.


Basically the same here. I'm also rather risk averse, but I'm an alternate for 6 of my top 10 firms, so my general thought it that it wouldn't matter if it converts or if I get them from the lottery right? Since they already made me an alternate?

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby luckyme » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:48 pm

Law Sauce wrote:Anyone know if the late picks from Mayer Brown (offices besides DC) are in yet?


stop taking my PS and go back to philly




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