2012 UVA OGI Thread

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I got 5 interviews out of Chicago OTIP (yesterday) and of those only 1 (Jones Day) says to not bid on them for OGI. There are 2 others (Baker McKenzie, Katten) that do not say this and both have NY offices coming to OGI that I was going to bid on as well as their Chi offices. Anyone know what I should do with those? Going to email recruiters tonight but worried I won't hear back in time.

I had this same question (except for Dallas and LA). I asked Career Services today. They said if I still want to, go ahead and bid on the New York offices.


awesome, thank you

Sure. For what it's worth, firms I was asking about were Sidley and Weil, but Career Services responded in a way that led me to believe that the advice applied generally, rather than firm-specifically.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:18 am

Anonymous User wrote:What's conventional TLS wisdom on bidding multiple offices? Like, 2 for instance. Not like 5. OCS never really gives a straight answer but it feels to me like it wouldn't actually be advantageous despite your odds objectively improving


The problem is that it depends on the firm.

I'll give you use two NYC V5's as an example:

Skadden has completely independent hiring processes for their NYC and DC offices. I did separate OGI interviews with each office, had separate callbacks with each office, and got an offer from one but not the other. Plus, NYC office had a 24-48 hour turn around on offers while DC's had a hiring committee that met every couple weeks.

SullCrom handles all the callback offers as a group. I, and others, who bid DC were asked if we were willing to take a NYC callback. When people got the callback, it was for NYC. The same interviewers interview for both, and the interviewers as a group make their callback decisions together at the end of the interview day. Thus, for SullCrom using two bids would have been a waste.

A final bit of unrelated advice. If there are particular firms you are interested in, I would very highly recommend that you get in touch with current rising 3Ls who are summering there or recent grads (perhaps after the bar) who summered there. Ask career services to put you in contact. Different firms have really different feels, very different interview processes, and strengths and weaknesses that are best addressed through talking to someone who has been there.

-'12 Grad

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:20 am

I'm trying to decide whether to put my GPA on my resume. It's in the low 3.5's, and I wrote onto law review.

On one hand, I think if the most competitive firms see Law Review with no GPA then they may spend more time on my resume, which has some good work experience, than they would if they instantly saw a GPA below 3.6/3.7.

On the other hand, my resume and cover letter emphasize my writing accolades so I think it might be good to be upfront about the fact I wrote on. Firms are also ultimately going to discover my grades anyways. Additionally, since I have a good GPA, I don't want to risk that firms might eyeball it wrong and assume it's lower (my grade distribution is 1st semester: 3 B+s, 1 A-; 2nd semester: 2 A's, 2 B+s).

Do you guys think I should include my GPA?

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby desertlaw » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:21 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'm trying to decide whether to put my GPA on my resume. It's in the low 3.5's, and I wrote onto law review.

On one hand, I think if the most competitive firms see Law Review with no GPA then they may spend more time on my resume, which has some good work experience, than they would if they instantly saw a GPA below 3.6/3.7.

On the other hand, my resume and cover letter emphasize my writing accolades so I think it might be good to be upfront about the fact I wrote on. Firms are also ultimately going to discover my grades anyways. Additionally, since I have a good GPA, I don't want to risk that firms might eyeball it wrong and assume it's lower (my grade distribution is 1st semester: 3 B+s, 1 A-; 2nd semester: 2 A's, 2 B+s).

Do you guys think I should include my GPA?


Yes, include it for sure. Anything over 3.45 should definitely be included.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:29 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'm trying to decide whether to put my GPA on my resume. It's in the low 3.5's, and I wrote onto law review.

On one hand, I think if the most competitive firms see Law Review with no GPA then they may spend more time on my resume, which has some good work experience, than they would if they instantly saw a GPA below 3.6/3.7.

On the other hand, my resume and cover letter emphasize my writing accolades so I think it might be good to be upfront about the fact I wrote on. Firms are also ultimately going to discover my grades anyways. Additionally, since I have a good GPA, I don't want to risk that firms might eyeball it wrong and assume it's lower (my grade distribution is 1st semester: 3 B+s, 1 A-; 2nd semester: 2 A's, 2 B+s).

Do you guys think I should include my GPA?


You're over thinking this. You should probably include it. The only people with GPA's > 3.5 who should consider not including their GPA are splitters with really low UGPA's (it creates the problem where you don't want to include UGPA, but if you put a LS GPA without a UGPA it can raise eyebrows).

Realize that firms are smart. Their recruiters will calculate your GPA from your transcript and, if its something that they care about, they'll provide it to their interviewers. And, the competitive firms that really care about it are even more likely to do their due diligence.

Anyways, a 3.5+ is an outstanding GPA. As I said above, a resume is about putting your best foot forward - this is something you want to draw attention to, not attention away from.

-'12 Grad

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:The only people with GPA's > 3.5 who should consider not including their GPA are splitters with really low UGPA's (it creates the problem where you don't want to include UGPA, but if you put a LS GPA without a UGPA it can raise eyebrows).


How low is "really low"? I've got a LS GPA in the mid 3.7s, and an UGPA in the low 3.40s. Leave 'em both off? OCS said nothing about my lack of GPA.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The only people with GPA's > 3.5 who should consider not including their GPA are splitters with really low UGPA's (it creates the problem where you don't want to include UGPA, but if you put a LS GPA without a UGPA it can raise eyebrows).


How low is "really low"? I've got a LS GPA in the mid 3.7s, and an UGPA in the low 3.40s. Leave 'em both off? OCS said nothing about my lack of GPA.


Honestly, it doesn't matter what you do. Firms will be looking at your transcript and will be able to tell, just by a quick glance, that you're in the top 5-6% of your class. FWIW, I was a splitter and had very good law school grades. I always left my GPA off my resume and let my transcript speak for itself. I had not problems doing that during OGI or clerkship applications.

-'12 Grad

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby plenipotentiary » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:56 am

Gecko of Doom wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Do employers see the actual titles we give our docs in Symplicity?

I'm reasonably certain I remember Career Services saying that they do, but I'm not 100% sure. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


They do not. Career Services confirmed this for me recently.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:11 am

plenipotentiary wrote:
Gecko of Doom wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Do employers see the actual titles we give our docs in Symplicity?

I'm reasonably certain I remember Career Services saying that they do, but I'm not 100% sure. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


They do not. Career Services confirmed this for me recently.

That's good news and only makes sense. Thanks.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:57 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm trying to decide whether to put my GPA on my resume. It's in the low 3.5's, and I wrote onto law review.

On one hand, I think if the most competitive firms see Law Review with no GPA then they may spend more time on my resume, which has some good work experience, than they would if they instantly saw a GPA below 3.6/3.7.

On the other hand, my resume and cover letter emphasize my writing accolades so I think it might be good to be upfront about the fact I wrote on. Firms are also ultimately going to discover my grades anyways. Additionally, since I have a good GPA, I don't want to risk that firms might eyeball it wrong and assume it's lower (my grade distribution is 1st semester: 3 B+s, 1 A-; 2nd semester: 2 A's, 2 B+s).

Do you guys think I should include my GPA?


You're over thinking this. You should probably include it. The only people with GPA's > 3.5 who should consider not including their GPA are splitters with really low UGPA's (it creates the problem where you don't want to include UGPA, but if you put a LS GPA without a UGPA it can raise eyebrows).

Realize that firms are smart. Their recruiters will calculate your GPA from your transcript and, if its something that they care about, they'll provide it to their interviewers. And, the competitive firms that really care about it are even more likely to do their due diligence.

Anyways, a 3.5+ is an outstanding GPA. As I said above, a resume is about putting your best foot forward - this is something you want to draw attention to, not attention away from.

-'12 Grad


For what its worth I was a splitter and CS told me to put my LS GPA on there because its in the top quarter. They didn't say anything about my lack of undergraduate GPA this time around but in the past I was told to leave it off. It was like a 3.5x

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:23 am

Just asked OCS about the GPA thing. Steve Hopson said you shouldn't put it on unless you have >3.6. I guess that's the official OCS cutoff, FWIW

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:26 am

Original GPA on Resume poster here. Steve Hopson is the only one that thinks GPAs under 3.6 should be excluded, and I find him to be generally unreliable. I know Duke, Hayden, and Kdovs (aka God) all support putting a GPA above 3.5 on there (I'm not sure about a lower GPA, I didn't ask).

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby dixon02 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:30 am

Anonymous User wrote:Just asked OCS about the GPA thing. Steve Hopson said you shouldn't put it on unless you have >3.6. I guess that's the official OCS cutoff, FWIW


The OCI doc that OCS sent out a month or so ago specifically included a line on this. It said any GPA 3.48 and up should be listed. The transcript that Symplicity creates has a blurb that says anything above 3.48 is top 25% of the class, so it's nice to be able to point out to employers that you are above that cutoff.

That said, I think you have to think strategically just like every other component of applying. If you're applying to Sullivan and Cromwell, where being a touch above top 25% is nothing special and is actually lower than they're looking for, I wouldn't put it on the resume. You only want to draw attention to things that are likely to get you hired. If you're applying to a random V50 firm where being top 25% is going to be a big boost and looked up on favorably, put it on there.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:42 am

Anonymous User wrote:Just asked OCS about the GPA thing. Steve Hopson said you shouldn't put it on unless you have >3.6. I guess that's the official OCS cutoff, FWIW


I was told by Patrice Hayden that you should put it on if your over the 3.48 that Career Services puts on the simplicity transcript. It may be a matter of opinion on both their parts rather then an official cutoff. Assuming your talking about LS Grades not Undergraduate.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:28 pm

So when the past OGI data for a particular firm says they only hire in the 3.5+ range but are also "very broad" in overall range i.e. past callbacks of more than .3 GPA points down is that just maybe diversity hires who happened to have low GPAs? This is a serious question, sorry if it's offensive. I am trying to figure out if I should waste a bid with these firms or not

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So when the past OGI data for a particular firm says they only hire in the 3.5+ range but are also "very broad" in overall range i.e. past callbacks of more than .3 GPA points down is that just maybe diversity hires who happened to have low GPAs? This is a serious question, sorry if it's offensive. I am trying to figure out if I should waste a bid with these firms or not

It's impossible to tell from the data OCS gives us, unfortunately. Only way to figure this out is to talk to one of them.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby paulinaporizkova » Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:24 pm

obligatory tag

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:41 pm

Do I say I "wrote on to Law Review" or that I "wrote onto Law Review?"

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby dixon02 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Do I say I "wrote on to Law Review" or that I "wrote onto Law Review?"


I would just have a bullet point that says Virginia Law Review. I wouldn't include my GPA or any description of how I got on. Let them figure out that you wrote on instead of graded on.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Do I say I "wrote on to Law Review" or that I "wrote onto Law Review?"

I don't think it matters. That said, if this concerns your resume, just put "• Virginia Law Review, Editorial Board." If this concerns your cover letter, I'd be inclined to omit that. Your resume already conveys that you are a member of Law Review, so mentioning it again in your cover letter is basically just bragging since you have nothing to add about the experience. Keep in mind that 90% of the attorneys reading your cover letter weren't on Law Review; they're not exactly going to be fawning over you when they see that.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:26 pm

For someone with a 3.62, to what extent does bidding order matter? Also, any NYC firms that would be considered reaches?

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby RVP11 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:For someone with a 3.62, to what extent does bidding order matter? Also, any NYC firms that would be considered reaches?


Unless you have some firms you absolutely need to interview with, bidding order probably doesn't matter for you. You'll probably get the max number of interviews just from preselects.

The only NYC firms that are reaches for you are S&C and Cravath.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:For someone with a 3.62, to what extent does bidding order matter? Also, any NYC firms that would be considered reaches?

Firms that only have one room can only preselect like 12 students (not sure what preselect:lottery ratio UVA is using this year), so if there are any firms that you have a special desire to interview with that have only one or two rooms, put them high since you may not be preselected despite your grades. Other than that, bidding order basically doesn't matter. I'd say the only NYC firms that are reaches are Cravath and S&C. You probably don't have a chance at Cravath, but if S&C is what you really want, they're still worth using an interview on.

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:41 pm

That was quick. THANKS!

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Re: 2012 UVA OGI Thread

Postby 5ky » Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:04 pm

As others have noted, I don't think order is particularly important for you. I would be a little surprised if you actually got 23 preselects right off the bat, however. What is more likely is that enough of your alternates will turn into preselects to put you close to 20-23 such that your order matters little.

A distinction, but an important one to try to reduce widespread panic when they release preselects initially.




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