2012 UVA OGI Thread Forum

[desertlaw]

Yo Anons, just get alts!

Done.. hopefully it will eventually keep down some of the confusion of the 100 anon's in this thread.

As someone trying for NYC Corp. with a 3.5, should I just bid all the NY V15 (minus the super selective ones) in my top 10 and hope to get them via lottery if they don't PS me? Really have no idea what I'm doing bidding strategy-wise.

Same exact situation. 3.5. Within the top 10 is there any specific order or methodology I should employ to order them?

+1. I've been trying to break firms down into reaches and targets, and I've knocked out Wachtell, S&C, and Cravath. Are all the other top v20 fair game or are there more firms besides those three who historically don't reach below 3.6?

I'm registered for a large fair pre-OCI. I haven't found out exactly what my schedule is yet, but assuming that I get some interviews in NYC then there aren't enough firms in NYC to fill my 50 bid slots. With a 3.5 would it be better to bid S&C and Cravath or throw bids at DC (which is my home market)?

I don't think specific order in top 10 matters that much, unless you really want to do XYZ work, and a firm does that work better than anyone. But at that level of V10, the firms won't be that different. Maybe if you think your personality would be a better fit, that would be a reason to bid Skadden higher if you're an alpha bro and DPW higher if you're a super nice quiet person. Past that, a 3.5 is looking at a ton of alternate/lottery for NYC, and then interviewing will help you kill it.

[bk1]

Yo Anons, just get alts!

People better be running by their possible alts by the mods otherwise there will be bans.

[094320]

..

[Anonymous User]

How much more conservative should those of us with ~3.45's be vs. those with 3.5's? Should our bidlists be essentially the same? A notch lower? How many firms are there for which top quarter is competitive but top third isn't?

In responding, assume epic risk aversion.

-Lane

[Anonymous User]

Bottom probably 20-15% Hoping for something and just checking in.

- Charlie

[Anonymous User]

I know a couple 3.5 people who got absolutely killed bidding all NY (even non-selective ones) in pre-select, but after the alternates and lottery ran then they ended up fine.

So just remember that for you 3.5'ers going NY. Don't freak out after the PS stage. People at 3.6 killed NY in pre-select. Thats where a lot of the line came last year with NY from experiences.

Yikes. Another 3.5 NYC here. Anything we can do to mitigate that to get more P-Ss? More aggressive bidding, less aggressive bidding? More softball BP??

-Carly Rae Jepsen

[lawyerwannabe]

I would focus almost exclusively on the batting practice. Open up your stance, keep your eye on the ball, and for the love of God stop popping the ball up to the pitcher. Total inning buzzkill.

[Anonymous User]

I know a couple 3.5 people who got absolutely killed bidding all NY (even non-selective ones) in pre-select, but after the alternates and lottery ran then they ended up fine.

So just remember that for you 3.5'ers going NY. Don't freak out after the PS stage. People at 3.6 killed NY in pre-select. Thats where a lot of the line came last year with NY from experiences.

Yikes. Another 3.5 NYC here. Anything we can do to mitigate that to get more P-Ss? More aggressive bidding, less aggressive bidding? More softball BP??

-Carly Rae Jepsen

How many 3.5-ers can there be? Are all of them here? Yet another 3.5 adding myself to the thread.

- A. Wintour

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on the best Career Services person to see for realistic bidding strategy advice? Was thinking KD or PH.

[Anonymous User]

Why do firms that Career Services says hire from around median claim to hire from the top 10%? Even lawyers aren't that bad at math.

- K. Spade

[pertristis]

Thoughts on the best Career Services person to see for realistic bidding strategy advice? Was thinking KD or PH.

Holy christ, there are a lot of anonymous posters on here.
I had an appointment with PH today. It was enormously useful. KD looks like he's gone until late next week.

[Law Sauce]

Thoughts on the best Career Services person to see for realistic bidding strategy advice? Was thinking KD or PH.

Both are very good. Those two are definitely the ones to go to. Nothing against the others. KD is super busy though so he has less times available and he can be more distracted (at least when I talked to him).

[dixon02]

Thoughts on the best Career Services person to see for realistic bidding strategy advice? Was thinking KD or PH.

Not trying to be a jerk, but why is this posted anon? We have so many anonymous posters in this thread that it would be helpful if we limited the feature to when it's really necessary to avoid outing identity.

[Law Sauce]

How many 3.5-ers can there be? Are all of them here? Yet another 3.5 adding myself to the thread.

- A. Wintour

I know it was rhetorical, but probably around 30. We have around 350 in the class. 3.6 is close to top 15% and 3.48 is about top 25%. So there's likely a little less than 10% of the class at the 3.50-3.59 range, in other words around 30 or so. Though I'm sure this varies year to year.

Edit: as far as TLSers, it seems we are at 3/30ish, or is it 4 or 5, anyway not improbable.

[Anonymous User]

3.62 here - looking for advice regarding VA bidding. Any chance that I'll get dinged at the pre-select stage for having a lack of ties? Should I just contact the hiring folks and indicate my interest in applying to their firm? Also - regarding NYC bidding - any firm that is off limits?

[Anonymous User]

How many 3.5-ers can there be? Are all of them here? Yet another 3.5 adding myself to the thread.

- A. Wintour

I know it was rhetorical, but probably around 30. We have around 350 in the class. 3.6 is close to top 15% and 3.48 is about top 25%. So there's likely a little less than 10% of the class at the 3.50-3.59 range, in other words around 30 or so. Though I'm sure this varies year to year.

Edit: as far as TLSers, it seems we are at 3/30ish, or is it 4 or 5, anyway not improbable.

It was kind of rhetorical but thanks for the answer!

Another unimportant question, but does anyone know why UVA has chosen the GPA points it has? (ie 4.0=A, 3.7=A-, etc...) It seems weird to me that hypothetically getting two A-s and two Bs (or two As and two B-s) would give you a higher GPA than someone with all B+s. (3.35 v 3.3)

- A. Wintour

[Law Sauce]

How many 3.5-ers can there be? Are all of them here? Yet another 3.5 adding myself to the thread.

- A. Wintour

I know it was rhetorical, but probably around 30. We have around 350 in the class. 3.6 is close to top 15% and 3.48 is about top 25%. So there's likely a little less than 10% of the class at the 3.50-3.59 range, in other words around 30 or so. Though I'm sure this varies year to year.

Edit: as far as TLSers, it seems we are at 3/30ish, or is it 4 or 5, anyway not improbable.

It was kind of rhetorical but thanks for the answer!

Another unimportant question, but does anyone know why UVA has chosen the GPA points it has? (ie 4.0=A, 3.7=A-, etc...) It seems weird to me that hypothetically getting two A-s and two Bs (or two As and two B-s) would give you a higher GPA than someone with all B+s. (3.35 v 3.3)

- A. Wintour

I don't know but maybe because giving a bigger reward for an A- then the penalty for a B raises the median somewhat without actually saying it and makes middle of the pack people look a little better. In reality, though profs probably just give more Bs or less A-s to make up for it to keep their class mean around 3.3x.

Also though, it is fairly common way to do it.

Edit: No one asked for this, but for the future this is really easy and good GPA calculator. http://www.sfsu.edu/~gradstdy/gpa-calculator-sfsu.htm

[Anonymous User]

How many 3.5-ers can there be? Are all of them here? Yet another 3.5 adding myself to the thread.

- A. Wintour

I know it was rhetorical, but probably around 30. We have around 350 in the class. 3.6 is close to top 15% and 3.48 is about top 25%. So there's likely a little less than 10% of the class at the 3.50-3.59 range, in other words around 30 or so. Though I'm sure this varies year to year.

Edit: as far as TLSers, it seems we are at 3/30ish, or is it 4 or 5, anyway not improbable.

It was kind of rhetorical but thanks for the answer!

Another unimportant question, but does anyone know why UVA has chosen the GPA points it has? (ie 4.0=A, 3.7=A-, etc...) It seems weird to me that hypothetically getting two A-s and two Bs (or two As and two B-s) would give you a higher GPA than someone with all B+s. (3.35 v 3.3)

- A. Wintour

I don't know but maybe because giving a bigger reward for an A- then the penalty for a B raises the median somewhat without actually saying it and makes middle of the pack people look a little better. In reality, though profs probably just give more Bs or less A-s to make up for it to keep their class mean around 3.3x.

Also though, it is fairly common way to do it.

Edit: No one asked for this, but for the future this is really easy and good GPA calculator. http://www.sfsu.edu/~gradstdy/gpa-calculator-sfsu.htm

Makes sense. I've been accustomed to a scale of A-=3.67, B+=3.33 etc. throughout high school/college, so I was just curious about the difference.

- A. Wintour

[Anonymous User]

I know a couple 3.5 people who got absolutely killed bidding all NY (even non-selective ones) in pre-select, but after the alternates and lottery ran then they ended up fine.

So just remember that for you 3.5'ers going NY. Don't freak out after the PS stage. People at 3.6 killed NY in pre-select. Thats where a lot of the line came last year with NY from experiences.

Yikes. Another 3.5 NYC here. Anything we can do to mitigate that to get more P-Ss? More aggressive bidding, less aggressive bidding? More softball BP??

-Carly Rae Jepsen

Hello, I think I was the second 3.5 to post on the last page. What's "absolutely killed? < 5 pre-selects? I've been scanning the 2011 ogi thread and I pulled up these two anonymous posters (granted, they're 3.54):

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First anon from pg 24.
GPA is 3.54 (~top 20%), straight from UG.

15 PS (13 NY, 1 DC, 1 secondary)
12 alts (8 NY, 3 DC, 1 secondary)

Bid 40 NYC, 7 DC, and 3 secondary. Still waiting on 4 NY, 2 DC, 1 secondary.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Freaky. I'm a number's twin - also a 3.54.

16 PS (14 NY, 2 CA)
4 Alts (3 NY, 1 CA)

Morgan, in your experience, were these sorts of results the exception? Because 15-16 PS doesn't sound like getting absolutely killed. My home market IS NYC, I'm not interested in working anywhere else, Dean Hopson has advised me not to go all out mass mailing since most NY firms are coming to OGI anyway, and I'm sort of confused.

- Don Draper

[Anonymous User]

Checking in with a 3.46. Want IP, have a technical background and passed patent bar. Was wondering if any 3L's who were in this situation or anyone in general could comment on how they structured their bid list. Are the IP firms easier to get pre-selected for because there are less qualified people? Should I bid them high? What GP firms should I be looking at with strong IP practices? I'm interested in Chicago (strong midwest ties), DC, and NY (to a lesser extent). Thanks.

Wanted to bump this

[Morgan12Oak]

When I said 3.5's got killed, I meant closer to 3.50 then like 3.55. There's some variance, but I know of a couple people that had like 3.48, 3.49, 3.50, 3.51 that got less than 5 P-S bidding all NY.

As to the earlier poster, bidding strategy doesn't have any impact on how many P-S you get.

I think NY is weird in that people with high GPA's who gun for DC still bid some of the NY V10-20 range which makes the NY V10-20 tough at the P-S stage. That being said, I think some of the less sought after NY firms outside of the V25-ish almost engage in some sort of yield protect in that they aren't pre-selecting the people with 3.5-6's who bid all 50 NY because frankly, sometimes they know they aren't going to get them

[desertlaw]

I would just not worry about pre-selects at all really if you're a 3.5 because you could get 10 or you could get 3. Firms probably want to see more 3.5's than their room reservations/pre-select allows them to, so you'll get enough interviews through alternate/lottery/special request.

Not sure what to tell you if NYC is your home market and you want to be there. I'm guessing you'll get more pre-selects than the other 3.5's for NYC.

Hopson is best for giving up grade information about firms. You want to look a callback grade medians for your bidding. usually Hopson + TLS is the correct path. KD and the others are too professional and respect the firms too much. Hopson is free wheeling and will probably give you more grade info. (But KD and other will still give you some info, just not as much).

[crossingforHYS]

wait....the gpa calculator is the correct way to get it??? I thought we just got it from sis???

[$$$$$$]

The amount of PS mean absolutely nothing at OGI. If you walk into a room as a 3.55 lottery, you will have just as good chance as any to land the job with a good interview. Alternates come splashing down once the interview limit is hit and people start dropping preselects. Also, if you have a 3.5 and are from NY, then you will probably get a shit ton of preselects. The people I know that underperformed on their NYC preselects were from other parts of the country, and guess what, they still crushed CBs and offers.

[Anonymous User]

The amount of PS mean absolutely nothing at OGI. If you walk into a room as a 3.55 lottery, you will have just as good chance as any to land the job with a good interview. Alternates come splashing down once the interview limit is hit and people start dropping preselects. Also, if you have a 3.5 and are from NY, then you will probably get a shit ton of preselects. The people I know that underperformed on their NYC preselects were from other parts of the country, and guess what, they still crushed CBs and offers.

Ok thanks. I assume bidding strategy comes into play for lottery slots then. Is there a consensus on how to order lists? Big ny mega firms > smaller ny firms > secondary market firms?

C. R. Jepsen (3.5)