Boalt's EIW: How do firms ACTUALLY evaluate grades?

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Anonymous User
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Re: Boalt's EIW: How do firms ACTUALLY evaluate grades?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:38 pm

Tangerine Gleam wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:2 HH
4 H
1 P
Not interested in IP.
Is this close to 33%? I'm wanting to bid on DC and SF, but I know those are difficult markets. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.


How many credits are those HHs? I'd say that is almost certainly top 25%. Probably a little shy of 10% though. Agree, Dignan?


Tangerine, do you know of somewhere Boalties can go to get a good estimate of their class rankings? Some of the b-line employers "require" a certain ranking (though the CDO, I think, generally tells us to ignore them). Somewhere on Nuts and Boalts maybe?

This site has some estimated rankings (mostly due to some help from posters like you and Dignan), but I haven't found an estimate similar to my grades (1 HH, 3 H, 3 P).

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Re: Boalt's EIW: How do firms ACTUALLY evaluate grades?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Dignan wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:...
The two posters above? I'm sorry but it appears to be some humblebragging. "I've got all HHs what are my chances." :roll:


+1. The first was far more insufferable than the second. Even with our school's reputation of being anti-gunner or whatever, all it really does is force them underground and into the forums.


Second anon here - I really didn't mean for that to sound obnoxious, but I see how it does and I apologize. I've just been told so many times that it's a mistake to only bid SF, so I'm being overly pessimistic. Thanks to the posters for the reassurance.

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Re: Boalt's EIW: How do firms ACTUALLY evaluate grades?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:57 pm

Any feel for the grade profiles of people who were successful in SF/SV and DC?

Since those markets have smaller classes, does it seem like "fit" is more important to firms? Even though my grades aren't bad, I'm worried that my resume doesn't exactly scream "future law firm indentured servant," so I might be passed over because they think I'm going to jump ship.

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Dignan
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Re: Boalt's EIW: How do firms ACTUALLY evaluate grades?

Postby Dignan » Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:54 pm

Hiram Walker wrote:Dignan, do you agree that bidding New York is the safest move with medianish grades?

That's the conventional wisdom. I don't have personal experience with bidding on New York firms, but I know people with medianish grades who did well by focusing on New York.

But if you would rather not work in NYC, don't limit yourself to the New York market. Although you won't be safe anywhere with medianish grades, you still have a shot at SF and LA. It's okay to spread your bids around a bit.

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Dignan
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Re: Boalt's EIW: How do firms ACTUALLY evaluate grades?

Postby Dignan » Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:2 HH
4 H
1 P
Not interested in IP.
Is this close to 33%? I'm wanting to bid on DC and SF, but I know those are difficult markets. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

I agree with TG: those grades put you well into the top 25% of the 1L class. If you have trouble in the DC and SF markets, it won't be because of your grades. Last year, I noticed that students who had previously worked in DC and/or had a background in policy or politics seemed to do well with DC firms.

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Dignan
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Re: Boalt's EIW: How do firms ACTUALLY evaluate grades?

Postby Dignan » Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thank you. You've been very helpful. Does an AmJur in a doctrinal class help you think?

It certainly doesn't hurt. One nice thing about awards is that you can put them on your resume.

Your EIW interviewers do not see your transcript in advance of your scheduled interview. (You hand the interviewer your transcript at the interview.) The interviewers do, however, get your resume ahead of time. If they see AmJurs (or Prossers or WOA awards) at the top of your resume, they might form a positive impression of you before the interview. That probably helps a bit.
Last edited by Dignan on Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dignan
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Re: Boalt's EIW: How do firms ACTUALLY evaluate grades?

Postby Dignan » Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Tangerine, do you know of somewhere Boalties can go to get a good estimate of their class rankings? Some of the b-line employers "require" a certain ranking (though the CDO, I think, generally tells us to ignore them).

CDO is right. If you're curious about whether a particular firm is especially grade-conscious, ask some 3Ls or ask CDO. Last year, some super-selective firms didn't mention grades or class rank, while some relatively non-selective firms claimed that they only chose students from the top of the class. Paul Hastings, for example, advertised that it required mostly HHs. That was absurd. Although Paul Hastings is a good firm, they regularly hire students who are just a little above median.


This site has some estimated rankings (mostly due to some help from posters like you and Dignan), but I haven't found an estimate similar to my grades (1 HH, 3 H, 3 P).

As TG and I keep suggesting, it's hard to estimate your rank if you don't provide the unit/credit distribution for your classes. In any case, I wouldn't get hung up on class rank right now. Although it matters down the line for clerkships, it doesn't play much of a role in big law hiring. As we discussed at the beginning of this thread, law firms don't estimate class rank in the same way that the law school does. To illustrate the point, consider two hypothetical students:

Student 1
----------
Contracts (5): HH
Torts (5): HH
Civ Pro (5): P
Con Law (4): P
Crim (4): P
Property (4): P
WOA (1): P

Student 2
----------
Contracts (5): H
Torts (5): H
Civ Pro (5): H
Con Law (4): H
Crim (4): H
Property (4): H
WOA (1): HH


When Boalt calculates class rank for clerkships and Order of the Coif, HH is worth 5 points per unit, H is 3 points per unit, and P is 2 points per unit. If you add up all the points for each student, you'll see that both have the same total: 86 points, for a "GPA" of 3.07.

Although both students have the identical Boalt-calculated rank, I am certain that Student 2 will do much better at EIW.

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Re: Boalt's EIW: How do firms ACTUALLY evaluate grades?

Postby EvelynS » Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:12 pm

OL. I have a question. I am interested in doing white-collar defense. I guess this interest limits my summer internship hunting to NYC, LA, SF, Chicago, and DC. Does anyone know if it is remotely possible to get into WCC divisions after your 1L or 2L? I assume these divisions are very selective. Does it mean that I will have to get all Hs and HHs even to be considered? I understand that mu question is very broad, but I would really appreciate any advice.

Thanks!




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