3.1 GPA at Duke-- What do I do now?

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: 3.1 GPA at Duke-- What do I do now?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:27 am

Without demonstrable ties, you should stick with NYC, where you have ties to, and NC. You shouldn't bother applying to other places until you have applied to everyone in those locations.

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Re: 3.1 GPA at Duke-- What do I do now?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:13 am

Anonymous User wrote:Rising 3L at Duke, similar grade situation to yours. What I can tell you is that at least at this past OCI, it seemed firmed had some pretty hard cutoffs, and that most were unwilling to dip below a 3.2-3.3 for callbacks, with a few exceptions. If I were you, I would bid less selective firms with bigger classes, really work on your interviewing skills, I mean, really, be exceptional, practice practice practice, network this summer not just to of course build your network and make connections to help in your job search this fall and beyond but also because the more you get used to talking to attorneys, especially alum and attorneys that you don't know, have to reach out to, and setup informational interviews with, the more you'll be used to it by the time OCI goes around. Start mass-mailing in mid-late July, hit your home market or markets and any other markets you are tied to hard, and hit them early, before they start recruiting from the local talent or at least, at the same time as they hit the local talent, but DEFINITELY not after I repeat DEFINITELY not after.

Try to get career services to give you a list of firms you should be bidding on, talk to current 3Ls and students who have just graduated about their experience, their tips, what they know about certain firms they worked at. Try to find students with similar ish grades to yours who managed to snag something at a firm (or government, so that you have that base covered in case firms don't work out for you). It is for sure doable, and hopefully firms won't scale things back a bit in anticipation of a default in Europe/other global economic woes and will hopefully continue the trend of slowly but steadily increasing class sizes, the number of callbacks, etc.

Do NOT delay, I promise you it will only hurt you in the end. Don't wait until after OCI to start sending targeted mails and reaching out to alum. Make that your priority this summer in addition to doing well and making good impressions at your summer internship. Go into OCI more prepared than anybody else, be aggressive, sign up for interview slots that open up, hit the hospitality suites, get your name out there.

You can definitely snag something with a 3.1, even biglaw for sure, but it won't be easy and you'll have to do a lot of legwork yourself, however I know people with grades in your range or lower who got something, and those with grades that ranged from higher than yours to much higher who struck out. So while grades are important, remember that they don't define you and that you aren't at some place like a 2.7 where getting past grades is a near impossibility. That's about the best advice I can give you but if you have some more questions, feel free to post again in this thread


How willing are firms to dip to somewhere in the 3.2-3.3 region? Especially the 3.4 preferred ones?

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Pate
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Re: 3.1 GPA at Duke-- What do I do now?

Postby Pate » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:56 am

Interviewing skills aside, if everyone in the T-14 with a +3.1 all landed jobs (accounting for 4,000 jobs), that would leave 10,000 jobs available.

From there, figure that your competition consists of 8,500 students from schools ranked 15-100 (those in the top 33% of their class). Being from Duke T-14, I would think you have a shot at something in the mid-upper five figure range.

Using those estimates. 1,500 jobs would still be available for Tier 3-4 students.

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Re: 3.1 GPA at Duke-- What do I do now?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So the consensus is that 1L GPA = Life Destiny...i.e. if I don't get an offer for next summer I should look for other career paths? No chance of breaking in later?


Someone else can weigh in but it seems like that is fairly correct regarding big law. I bet you would be able to find some legal employment though.


that is absolutely ridiculous and sickening if that's how it works. besides, if your school does winter OCI then 2L first semester grades also count, no?


OCI is before 2L even starts. And see explanation above. While arguably not perfect it is much better than counting all three years equally.

You also should have known this before attending law school.


Sorry I should have specified I go to Mich. We have winter OCI as well which counts 1st semester 2l grades.

palmtrees11111
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Re: 3.1 GPA at Duke-- What do I do now?

Postby palmtrees11111 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:09 pm

what exactly are "mass mailings?" as in like, cover letter + resume to a ton of firms? do we send these via email to recruiting coordinators? hiring partners? alums?

if these firms are coming to OCI, should we still try and do stuff like this over the summer, regardless of how good or bad our grades are?

also, some firms only allow you to apply to one branch. lets say i have ties to DC, but my first choice market is to work in NYC. should i save the NYC office interviews for OCI, and "mass mail" the DC offices over the summer? is this a sound strategy?

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Re: 3.1 GPA at Duke-- What do I do now?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:33 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Rising 3L at Duke, similar grade situation to yours. What I can tell you is that at least at this past OCI, it seemed firmed had some pretty hard cutoffs, and that most were unwilling to dip below a 3.2-3.3 for callbacks, with a few exceptions. If I were you, I would bid less selective firms with bigger classes, really work on your interviewing skills, I mean, really, be exceptional, practice practice practice, network this summer not just to of course build your network and make connections to help in your job search this fall and beyond but also because the more you get used to talking to attorneys, especially alum and attorneys that you don't know, have to reach out to, and setup informational interviews with, the more you'll be used to it by the time OCI goes around. Start mass-mailing in mid-late July, hit your home market or markets and any other markets you are tied to hard, and hit them early, before they start recruiting from the local talent or at least, at the same time as they hit the local talent, but DEFINITELY not after I repeat DEFINITELY not after.

Try to get career services to give you a list of firms you should be bidding on, talk to current 3Ls and students who have just graduated about their experience, their tips, what they know about certain firms they worked at. Try to find students with similar ish grades to yours who managed to snag something at a firm (or government, so that you have that base covered in case firms don't work out for you). It is for sure doable, and hopefully firms won't scale things back a bit in anticipation of a default in Europe/other global economic woes and will hopefully continue the trend of slowly but steadily increasing class sizes, the number of callbacks, etc.

Do NOT delay, I promise you it will only hurt you in the end. Don't wait until after OCI to start sending targeted mails and reaching out to alum. Make that your priority this summer in addition to doing well and making good impressions at your summer internship. Go into OCI more prepared than anybody else, be aggressive, sign up for interview slots that open up, hit the hospitality suites, get your name out there.

You can definitely snag something with a 3.1, even biglaw for sure, but it won't be easy and you'll have to do a lot of legwork yourself, however I know people with grades in your range or lower who got something, and those with grades that ranged from higher than yours to much higher who struck out. So while grades are important, remember that they don't define you and that you aren't at some place like a 2.7 where getting past grades is a near impossibility. That's about the best advice I can give you but if you have some more questions, feel free to post again in this thread


How willing are firms to dip to somewhere in the 3.2-3.3 region? Especially the 3.4 preferred ones?


Bumping this, because I'm wondering the same thing. Anyone have a general idea?

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Re: 3.1 GPA at Duke-- What do I do now?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Rising 3L at Duke, similar grade situation to yours. What I can tell you is that at least at this past OCI, it seemed firmed had some pretty hard cutoffs, and that most were unwilling to dip below a 3.2-3.3 for callbacks, with a few exceptions. If I were you, I would bid less selective firms with bigger classes, really work on your interviewing skills, I mean, really, be exceptional, practice practice practice, network this summer not just to of course build your network and make connections to help in your job search this fall and beyond but also because the more you get used to talking to attorneys, especially alum and attorneys that you don't know, have to reach out to, and setup informational interviews with, the more you'll be used to it by the time OCI goes around. Start mass-mailing in mid-late July, hit your home market or markets and any other markets you are tied to hard, and hit them early, before they start recruiting from the local talent or at least, at the same time as they hit the local talent, but DEFINITELY not after I repeat DEFINITELY not after.

Try to get career services to give you a list of firms you should be bidding on, talk to current 3Ls and students who have just graduated about their experience, their tips, what they know about certain firms they worked at. Try to find students with similar ish grades to yours who managed to snag something at a firm (or government, so that you have that base covered in case firms don't work out for you). It is for sure doable, and hopefully firms won't scale things back a bit in anticipation of a default in Europe/other global economic woes and will hopefully continue the trend of slowly but steadily increasing class sizes, the number of callbacks, etc.

Do NOT delay, I promise you it will only hurt you in the end. Don't wait until after OCI to start sending targeted mails and reaching out to alum. Make that your priority this summer in addition to doing well and making good impressions at your summer internship. Go into OCI more prepared than anybody else, be aggressive, sign up for interview slots that open up, hit the hospitality suites, get your name out there.

You can definitely snag something with a 3.1, even biglaw for sure, but it won't be easy and you'll have to do a lot of legwork yourself, however I know people with grades in your range or lower who got something, and those with grades that ranged from higher than yours to much higher who struck out. So while grades are important, remember that they don't define you and that you aren't at some place like a 2.7 where getting past grades is a near impossibility. That's about the best advice I can give you but if you have some more questions, feel free to post again in this thread


How willing are firms to dip to somewhere in the 3.2-3.3 region? Especially the 3.4 preferred ones?


Bumping this, because I'm wondering the same thing. Anyone have a general idea?


Under 3.3 GPA, 10 preselected interviews at PLIP. BSEE, not from Duke either.

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Re: 3.1 GPA at Duke-- What do I do now?

Postby rayiner » Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the advice. Is it possible to switch firms (or go from gov to firm if I don't get a firm next summer) if I can get the grades up for 2L and 3L? I am spending the summer figuring out where I went wrong, but I am hoping that 1L grades truly don't define the rest of my career...


Government is not a fallback to not getting big law. Perpetual unemployment is the fallback. Gun job searching accordingly.

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Re: 3.1 GPA at Duke-- What do I do now?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:38 pm

accidental anonymous.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Breezin
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Re: 3.1 GPA at Duke-- What do I do now?

Postby Breezin » Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Rising 3L at Duke, similar grade situation to yours. What I can tell you is that at least at this past OCI, it seemed firmed had some pretty hard cutoffs, and that most were unwilling to dip below a 3.2-3.3 for callbacks, with a few exceptions. If I were you, I would bid less selective firms with bigger classes, really work on your interviewing skills, I mean, really, be exceptional, practice practice practice, network this summer not just to of course build your network and make connections to help in your job search this fall and beyond but also because the more you get used to talking to attorneys, especially alum and attorneys that you don't know, have to reach out to, and setup informational interviews with, the more you'll be used to it by the time OCI goes around. Start mass-mailing in mid-late July, hit your home market or markets and any other markets you are tied to hard, and hit them early, before they start recruiting from the local talent or at least, at the same time as they hit the local talent, but DEFINITELY not after I repeat DEFINITELY not after.

Try to get career services to give you a list of firms you should be bidding on, talk to current 3Ls and students who have just graduated about their experience, their tips, what they know about certain firms they worked at. Try to find students with similar ish grades to yours who managed to snag something at a firm (or government, so that you have that base covered in case firms don't work out for you). It is for sure doable, and hopefully firms won't scale things back a bit in anticipation of a default in Europe/other global economic woes and will hopefully continue the trend of slowly but steadily increasing class sizes, the number of callbacks, etc.

Do NOT delay, I promise you it will only hurt you in the end. Don't wait until after OCI to start sending targeted mails and reaching out to alum. Make that your priority this summer in addition to doing well and making good impressions at your summer internship. Go into OCI more prepared than anybody else, be aggressive, sign up for interview slots that open up, hit the hospitality suites, get your name out there.

You can definitely snag something with a 3.1, even biglaw for sure, but it won't be easy and you'll have to do a lot of legwork yourself, however I know people with grades in your range or lower who got something, and those with grades that ranged from higher than yours to much higher who struck out. So while grades are important, remember that they don't define you and that you aren't at some place like a 2.7 where getting past grades is a near impossibility. That's about the best advice I can give you but if you have some more questions, feel free to post again in this thread


How willing are firms to dip to somewhere in the 3.2-3.3 region? Especially the 3.4 preferred ones?


Bumping this, because I'm wondering the same thing. Anyone have a general idea?


Under 3.3 GPA, 10 preselected interviews at PLIP. BSEE, not from Duke either.


10 preselects means 10 screeners, right?

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Re: 3.1 GPA at Duke-- What do I do now?

Postby prezidentv8 » Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How willing are firms to dip to somewhere in the 3.2-3.3 region? Especially the 3.4 preferred ones?


The eff?! Economy's improving...?

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Re: 3.1 GPA at Duke-- What do I do now?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:47 am

Do we know more specifically where 3.1 falls compared to the rest of the Duke class?

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Re: 3.1 GPA at Duke-- What do I do now?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote: So you might start out working in-house at the lowest level and work your way up, maybe that'll be better and you'll end up happier than a lot of your classmates and making similar money a few years down the line, just not right away.


Isn't in-house "at the lowest level" nearly impossible to get without 5-10 years of firm experience? If someone has information to the contrary, PLEASE LET ME KNOW HOW TO GET SOMETHING LIKE THIS - THANK YOU!


Also, I'd like to bump the "where does 3.1 stand relative to the rest of the class at duke?"

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Re: 3.1 GPA at Duke-- What do I do now?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: So you might start out working in-house at the lowest level and work your way up, maybe that'll be better and you'll end up happier than a lot of your classmates and making similar money a few years down the line, just not right away.


Isn't in-house "at the lowest level" nearly impossible to get without 5-10 years of firm experience? If someone has information to the contrary, PLEASE LET ME KNOW HOW TO GET SOMETHING LIKE THIS - THANK YOU!


Also, I'd like to bump the "where does 3.1 stand relative to the rest of the class at duke?"

Sadly, you are right. That ANON is most likely a 0L.

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Re: 3.1 GPA at Duke-- What do I do now?

Postby BruceWayne » Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:51 pm

I honestly hope that the OP finds something; I honestly do, but people NEED to understand what I'm about to say.

YOU SHOULD DO EVERYTHING TO GO TO A SCHOOL THAT IS STRONG IN YOUR HOME REGION! In the case of people from NYC or DC this basically means that you HAVE to go to CCN Penn or maybe Cornell because you have NO REGION to fall back on that will be impressed by a top 14 law degree or that fees into another region. If you end up with low grades and you are not from a non NYC/DC market you basically HAVE to rely on NYC firms. But those firms WILL NOT dip below certain GPAs--PERIOD. If OP was from the South he could bombard NC, Birmingham, Florida, and other small Southern markets with an impressive degree and home town ties. To the person recommending NC for him that's really not going to be an option for someone with bad grades who isn't from the South. They would likely pass up on someone FROM NC with that GPA for UNC/Wake with high grades, but someone not even from NC?? That is NOT a good position to be in. People have got to start understanding that legal placement is more nuanced than Top 6, Top 10, Top 14 for people who don't beat the median.

Good luck to OP. I suggest targeting smaller NYC firms like Carter Ledyard and tailoring your resume for state level PI. You can try Connecticut firms as well. One of the might consider being from NY close enough to Conn for them to give you a look.

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Re: 3.1 GPA at Duke-- What do I do now?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:52 pm

So are people who grew up in NY just fucked? No secondary market to rely on?

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Re: 3.1 GPA at Duke-- What do I do now?

Postby BruceWayne » Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So are people who grew up in NY just fucked? No secondary market to rely on?



I mean honestly yes. That's why if you are from NY you should really do what you can to go to HYS CCN Penn or maybe Cornell if you're going to go to a top 14 and pay sticker or close. Obviously this is all predicated on grades. If you get good grades from Duke or UVA or Michigan etc. it won't matter. But if you don't you are in serious trouble. I would heavily discourage someone from NY from attending UVA, Michigan, Duke, Boalt etc. at sticker.

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Re: 3.1 GPA at Duke-- What do I do now?

Postby keg411 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So are people who grew up in NY just fucked? No secondary market to rely on?


You can give NJ/Philly/CT a try depending on where in NY you are from. NJ firms are pretty receptive to people from OOS T14's and T20's, but you have to at least have some reason to sell them on NJ over NYC.

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Re: 3.1 GPA at Duke-- What do I do now?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:48 am

I am now in the same boat as you with just under a 3.2 at duke after 1L. I'm wondering if you had any luck at OCI or if I should start gun shopping as suggested above

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Re: 3.1 GPA at Duke-- What do I do now?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:08 am

I went to a T-10 school and had a 3.0 my 1L year and am also from NY. You are going to have a lot of hard work ahead of you for the next two years if you decide to stick it out. What you should do starting today is make a list of alumni that work at firms that you could work at and start hitting them up, try to make them partners if possible (that is how I received callbacks). Ultimately, even with networking and getting partners at certain firms to vouch for me, I ended up with nothing at OCI and nothing through mass - mailing. While you are doing this, you need to think about what else you could possibly do. Its not too late to get on the DA bandwagon, or extern at the CFTC/SEC for 3 semesters and try to get in that way to Fed Gov. For law firms, target Philly, Connecticut, Boston, Delaware, etc (anywhere in the NE,MA is considered having ties to it), as well as NYC, itll get you way more hits and sometimes these smaller markets have alumni that are partners at some random firms that don't get hit up by Duke alumni all that often. Also, get your grades up, have a goal of graduating with at least a 3.3 (seems to be the number people look for to say you did "fine").

3L2014
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Re: 3.1 GPA at Duke-- What do I do now?

Postby 3L2014 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:49 am

OP, you are certainly in a tough situation, but far from screwed. People get firms during 3L year, its not easy, but its doable. Yes, you need mail (smaller, below market firms as well). But, you should also make sure to talk to all 1L professors. Make sure they know you care. Need to foster relationships. This can help you get recommendation letters, and perhaps state supreme court/magistrate clerkships that may act as good stepping stones. Then, when you kill it 2L/3L, you will have better opportunities.

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Re: 3.1 GPA at Duke-- What do I do now?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:18 pm

OP you won't get NC without serious ties. Paradoxically, NC firms don't really like Dukies without ties bc Duke isn't really a NC school, it's a national school located in NC. Your best bet is to do what everyone else has said: mass mail hard for big, less-selective NYC firms. Absolutely don't rely on OCI, I had friends with better grades than yours who struck out hard. Biglaw isn't impossible, but it will be difficult, and you only get one bite at the apple so give it everything you've got.

Edit: And don't rely on 3LOLCI. It's pretty much a flame. Can't find the link ATM but there were something like 150 3L jobs nationwide last year.

Edit2: Just realized this thread was two years old. Nice necro.

middlemarch
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Re: 3.1 GPA at Duke-- What do I do now?

Postby middlemarch » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Edit2: Just realized this thread was two years old. Nice necro.


lol. It would be great, however, if OP found this thread (or could be contacted) and let us know what actually happened. "Where are they now?"




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