Where do I stand at Penn?

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Pate
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Pate » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:21 am

r6_philly wrote:
Pate wrote:Speaking of A+, has anyone here received an A+, or a grade lower than a B? Curious.


They give out A+ and C, yes. Not every class. And when they give out, not necessarily just one or two.

I know they exist (read it somewhere), but in our little "Stand" group. . .anyone here have an A+ or received something lower than a B?

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:22 am

r6_philly wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:We're calculating that OP is no higher than median on a B+ curve -- they have a B- and a B in four credit courses for chrisakes.


The "B+" curve is an approximation, so I don't want someone to come up here and say definitively, "yes XXX is above/below" the median, because that statement may be off like 15 percentage points depending on what the real median.


Of course, it's an approximation -- it might be off by 5 or so percentage points in either direction, but that's not really pushing OP that far above or below. It won't be off by 15%, unless professors widely failed to adhere to the curve. They aren't allowed to do that for 1L classes.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby r6_philly » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:23 am

Pate wrote:I know they exist (read it somewhere), but in our little "Stand" group. . .anyone here have an A+ or received something lower than a B?


I have all A+s. :mrgreen:

Or do I?

Do you really want anonymous people telling you what grades they have?

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:24 am

Pate wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
Pate wrote:Speaking of A+, has anyone here received an A+, or a grade lower than a B? Curious.


They give out A+ and C, yes. Not every class. And when they give out, not necessarily just one or two.

I know they exist (read it somewhere), but in our little "Stand" group. . .anyone here have an A+ or received something lower than a B?


They exist, and A+s count for higher than As. It's not uncommon for a professor to give 1-3 Cs in a class. I've seen as many as 5 Cs given out per class.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:24 am

r6_philly wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
If it works that way for every 1L class (it does), then it works that way for the entire 1L class.


I take it you don't understand distribution.


I'm sorry that your grades are lower than you thought they were, bro.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:30 am

r6_philly wrote:
Pate wrote:I know they exist (read it somewhere), but in our little "Stand" group. . .anyone here have an A+ or received something lower than a B?


I have all A+s. :mrgreen:

Or do I?

Do you really want anonymous people telling you what grades they have?


I got an A+ in one of my 1L classes. Not spectacular GPA overall, slightly over 3.6, assuming A+ = 4.0 not 4.33.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:31 am

Anonymous User wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
Pate wrote:I know they exist (read it somewhere), but in our little "Stand" group. . .anyone here have an A+ or received something lower than a B?


I have all A+s. :mrgreen:

Or do I?

Do you really want anonymous people telling you what grades they have?


I got an A+ in one of my 1L classes. Not spectacular GPA overall, slightly over 3.6, assuming A+ = 4.0 not 4.33.


It's a 4.3-ish. Count it proudly.

The actual true cumulative only really matters for Latin Honors, though. Chances are, employers, and even judges, will eyeball the grades such that an A+ won't make a big difference from that of an A.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

r6_philly
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby r6_philly » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:31 am

Anonymous User wrote:Of course, it's an approximation -- it might be off by 5 or so percentage points in either direction, but that's not really pushing OP that far above or below. It won't be off by 15%, unless professors widely failed to adhere to the curve. They aren't allowed to do that for 1L classes.


Thats not what I mean. What I mean is the middle 30% could have the same GPA if the distribution of everyone's individual 8 grades are widely dispersed. so someone with a 3.3 might be either top 40 or bottom 40, depending on the year. Plus, if all classes have Cs but no A+, then it will skew the curve a bit.

my point is you never know, so there is no need for definitive answers.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby r6_philly » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:32 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'm sorry that your grades are lower than you thought they were, bro.


Don't be. I don't need good grades.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Veyron » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:36 am

A+ matters since its basically the equivalent of a CALI.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:36 am

r6_philly wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Of course, it's an approximation -- it might be off by 5 or so percentage points in either direction, but that's not really pushing OP that far above or below. It won't be off by 15%, unless professors widely failed to adhere to the curve. They aren't allowed to do that for 1L classes.


Thats not what I mean. What I mean is the middle 30% could have the same GPA if the distribution of everyone's individual 8 grades are widely dispersed. so someone with a 3.3 might be either top 40 or bottom 40, depending on the year. Plus, if all classes have Cs but no A+, then it will skew the curve a bit.

my point is you never know, so there is no need for definitive answers.


It doesn't fluctuate that much, and since ranks are calculated only internally, employers will just guess that it's around a 3.3 every year. So for purposes of OCI, OP is solidly around the median.

For latin honors calculation, for those who care, GPAs become wildly inflated during 2L and 3L year, to where magna cum laude would be around a 3.8 (around top 15%), and cum laude is around a 3.6 (around top 30%).

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:37 am

Veyron wrote:A+ matters since its basically the equivalent of a CALI.


Some professors do give more than one A+, however. Though I can't remember if this happens in 1L classes or not.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Veyron » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:39 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Veyron wrote:A+ matters since its basically the equivalent of a CALI.


Some professors do give more than one A+, however. Though I can't remember if this happens in 1L classes or not.


Sure but some don't give any so ....

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby r6_philly » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:39 am

Anonymous User wrote:It doesn't fluctuate that much, and since ranks are calculated only internally, employers will just guess that it's around a 3.3 every year. So for purposes of OCI, OP is solidly around the median.


Yes, that's the kind of statement I was hoping people will make.

For latin honors calculation, for those who care, GPAs become wildly inflated during 2L and 3L year, to where magna cum laude would be around a 3.8 (around top 15%), and cum laude is around a 3.6 (around top 30%).


Because some upper level classes are curved and some not. And people are not required to take the same classes.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:42 am

Anonymous User wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Of course, it's an approximation -- it might be off by 5 or so percentage points in either direction, but that's not really pushing OP that far above or below. It won't be off by 15%, unless professors widely failed to adhere to the curve. They aren't allowed to do that for 1L classes.


Thats not what I mean. What I mean is the middle 30% could have the same GPA if the distribution of everyone's individual 8 grades are widely dispersed. so someone with a 3.3 might be either top 40 or bottom 40, depending on the year. Plus, if all classes have Cs but no A+, then it will skew the curve a bit.

my point is you never know, so there is no need for definitive answers.


It doesn't fluctuate that much, and since ranks are calculated only internally, employers will just guess that it's around a 3.3 every year. So for purposes of OCI, OP is solidly around the median.

For latin honors calculation, for those who care, GPAs become wildly inflated during 2L and 3L year, to where magna cum laude would be around a 3.8 (around top 15%), and cum laude is around a 3.6 (around top 30%).


I'm the poster above with a ~3.6. Would top 30% be an reasonable class rank estimate? Closer to 3.65 if you count the A+ for more than an A I think.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:43 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Of course, it's an approximation -- it might be off by 5 or so percentage points in either direction, but that's not really pushing OP that far above or below. It won't be off by 15%, unless professors widely failed to adhere to the curve. They aren't allowed to do that for 1L classes.


Thats not what I mean. What I mean is the middle 30% could have the same GPA if the distribution of everyone's individual 8 grades are widely dispersed. so someone with a 3.3 might be either top 40 or bottom 40, depending on the year. Plus, if all classes have Cs but no A+, then it will skew the curve a bit.

my point is you never know, so there is no need for definitive answers.


It doesn't fluctuate that much, and since ranks are calculated only internally, employers will just guess that it's around a 3.3 every year. So for purposes of OCI, OP is solidly around the median.

For latin honors calculation, for those who care, GPAs become wildly inflated during 2L and 3L year, to where magna cum laude would be around a 3.8 (around top 15%), and cum laude is around a 3.6 (around top 30%).


I'm the poster above with a ~3.6. Would top 30% be an reasonable class rank estimate? Closer to 3.65 if you count the A+ for more than an A I think.


You're higher than that if you're a 1L. Top 20% at least I would guess.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:46 am

Yeah I'm a 1L.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:46 am

r6_philly wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:It doesn't fluctuate that much, and since ranks are calculated only internally, employers will just guess that it's around a 3.3 every year. So for purposes of OCI, OP is solidly around the median.


Yes, that's the kind of statement I was hoping people will make.

For latin honors calculation, for those who care, GPAs become wildly inflated during 2L and 3L year, to where magna cum laude would be around a 3.8 (around top 15%), and cum laude is around a 3.6 (around top 30%).


Because some upper level classes are curved and some not. And people are not required to take the same classes.


Yes, I know.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby r6_philly » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:46 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
I'm the poster above with a ~3.6. Would top 30% be an reasonable class rank estimate? Closer to 3.65 if you count the A+ for more than an A I think.


You're higher than that if you're a 1L. Top 20% at least.


I looked at some other schools data (not that it's really applicable to here) but standard deviation of 1L grades is around 0.3 or so. If that's true and the mean is around 3.3, maybe 3.6 is around 17-20% depends on the distribution of class grades.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:50 am

ITE how would your median or slightly under media play in the world of OCI?

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby r6_philly » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:52 am

Anonymous User wrote:ITE how would your median or slightly under media play in the world of OCI?


If you interview well and is above median in employability you should be able to get market offers.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby r6_philly » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:56 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Of course, it's an approximation -- it might be off by 5 or so percentage points in either direction, but that's not really pushing OP that far above or below. It won't be off by 15%, unless professors widely failed to adhere to the curve. They aren't allowed to do that for 1L classes.


That determines the mean, not the median. You could have a bimodal distribution where the mean is 3.3 but there is no GPA reported between 3.2 and 3.4.

Think of it this way:

If all the A and A- went to everyone who only got A and A- (that means 30% of the class get nothing but A/A-, but no one else did). And the rest 70 % split between B and B+. That means for 70% of the people, their GPA would have a mode of 3.17, while the 30% of the people they would have a mode of 3.88. The median will be around 3.2.

Not that such a thing would happen, but just saying, grade distribution between people's 8 grades would determine the median, and it doesn't have to mimic the mean.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:57 am

r6_philly wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
I'm the poster above with a ~3.6. Would top 30% be an reasonable class rank estimate? Closer to 3.65 if you count the A+ for more than an A I think.


You're higher than that if you're a 1L. Top 20% at least.


I looked at some other schools data (not that it's really applicable to here) but standard deviation of 1L grades is around 0.3 or so. If that's true and the mean is around 3.3, maybe 3.6 is around 17-20% depends on the distribution of class grades.


Oh wow, that's way better than I would have assumed. Among my 3-4 friends that I feel comfortable talking about grades with, we all have grades in the 3.6-3.7 range, and that's just among people in my section.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby r6_philly » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Oh wow, that's way better than I would have assumed. Among my 3-4 friends that I feel comfortable talking about grades with, we all have grades in the 3.6-3.7 range, and that's just among people in my section.


Well you guys studied together well then! :)

Your grades are better than fine. Now bid well and interview well. Grades helps, but other qualities drive the offers. Fortunately you don't really need to be a superstar, you just have to be average on all other fronts to do well at OCI.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:04 am

Anonymous User wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
I'm the poster above with a ~3.6. Would top 30% be an reasonable class rank estimate? Closer to 3.65 if you count the A+ for more than an A I think.


You're higher than that if you're a 1L. Top 20% at least.


I looked at some other schools data (not that it's really applicable to here) but standard deviation of 1L grades is around 0.3 or so. If that's true and the mean is around 3.3, maybe 3.6 is around 17-20% depends on the distribution of class grades.


Oh wow, that's way better than I would have assumed. Among my 3-4 friends that I feel comfortable talking about grades with, we all have grades in the 3.6-3.7 range, and that's just among people in my section.


Yeah, top 20% or so is a good estimate of your rank at a 3.6.




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