Where do I stand at Penn?

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r6_philly
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby r6_philly » Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:48 am

Anonymous User wrote:Are you saying LR is mostly (or 100%) writing?


I am not answering you anymore.
Last edited by r6_philly on Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

rad lulz
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby rad lulz » Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:50 am

Anonymous User wrote:Explain please.

Since law review is said to be in some way connected to the top 10%, how do they know who is in the top 10% (it might be top 15/20% but the same “how do they know” question remains).

I also like to poast anon when express my ignorance.

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Veyron
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Veyron » Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:51 am

ajaxconstructions wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
ajaxconstructions wrote:Can't you just use a GPA calculator? Or they don't even tell you which classes are worth certain credits etc?


Yes, but different calculators gives different numerical values. Remember LSAT gives 4.33 to a A+ but your school doesn't?


What's the point of this system?!


No lie, Penn hired consultants to help it construct the optimal grading system for biglaw placement. Think of it as opposite Berkeley.

HeavenWood
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby HeavenWood » Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:14 am

r6_philly wrote:
dabomb75 wrote:There were a couple of posts in the last 2 years' OCI threads that estimated the following rankings based on GPA:

3.3 = median

3.5 = top 33%

3.7 = top 10%

Not sure exactly how accurate that is, but just eye-balling it it doesn't really seem wrong and gives a good starting place to work from.


I think the median is a bit lower, but that's what I think. I also think the middle 20-25% is probably within 0.1, so finding a median is probably not all that helpful. The individual grades may actually be more important for people with the usual spread of A- to B grades.

I think median hovers closer to a 3.25 (or about 3 B+'s and a B).

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dpk711
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby dpk711 » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:10 am

HeavenWood wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
I think the median is a bit lower, but that's what I think. I also think the middle 20-25% is probably within 0.1, so finding a median is probably not all that helpful. The individual grades may actually be more important for people with the usual spread of A- to B grades.

I think median hovers closer to a 3.25 (or about 3 B+'s and a B).


If all that is true I think the grade distributions would be more like:

3.3 = slightly above median, top 45%-ish?

3.5 = top 25%

3.7 = top 10%

Anonymous User
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:54 pm

guys, the question is how do law firms calculate GPAs of penn students, specifically those law firms with grade cutoffs. I think its safe to say that pretty much every firm turns your grades into a number somehow, wouldn't you agree? My guess is they don't consider things like #of credits, especially because this information is very hard for them to get.

Do they just use an LSAC type scale and plug everything in?
A = 4.0
A- = 3.7
B+ = 3.3
B = 3.0
and so on?

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rayiner
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby rayiner » Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:04 pm

Veyron wrote:No lie, Penn hired consultants to help it construct the optimal grading system for biglaw placement. Think of it as opposite Berkeley.


+1.

Having a good grading system actually helps a lot. When it's unclear what the median is, the "below median" thing loses its sting. As it should--there is little actual difference between someone 5% below the median and someone 5% above the median.

Although I think the "don't compute a GPA" thing is silly. Not as silly as how Harvard computes a GPA out of a H/P system though. That's just ridiculous.

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OutCold
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby OutCold » Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:09 pm

I really don't think firms are splitting hairs (well, maybe W&C, etc.). You can pretty much glance at a set of grades and make a relatively accurate estimation of where someone stands in the class, especially knowing that the average is in the vicinity of a B+. I doubt they are calculating out a GPA. From that point on, its how well you present yourself in the interview. I personally like GPA better, but the system does force firms to place less emphasis on cutoffs.

HeavenWood
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby HeavenWood » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:50 am

rayiner wrote:Although I think the "don't compute a GPA" thing is silly. Not as silly as how Harvard computes a GPA out of a H/P system though. That's just ridiculous.

It's not only silly, but incredibly unhelpful when examining grade distributions for firms.

Anonymous User
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:32 pm

Considering all of this, how high up Vault can I go? Where should my bidding be targeted? And what are my reaches and what should my safeties be?

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Veyron
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Veyron » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Considering all of this, how high up Vault can I go? Where should my bidding be targeted? And what are my reaches and what should my safeties be?


Your realistic top end is somewhere in the V20. Target all the firms with big classes that come to OCI and pay market.

P.S. you're obsessing way too much about V. Firm quality only has a loose association with rank, these aren't law schools we're talking about.

Anonymous User
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:49 pm

Veyron wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Considering all of this, how high up Vault can I go? Where should my bidding be targeted? And what are my reaches and what should my safeties be?


Your realistic top end is somewhere in the V20. Target all the firms with big classes that come to OCI and pay market.

P.S. you're obsessing way too much about V. Firm quality only has a loose association with rank, these aren't law schools we're talking about.


Wow! Top 20? This is surprising but good to hear! I thought medianish at Penn would have a little lower ceiling, though I’ve only just begun researching so that was mostly based on me gut feeling.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:55 pm

Any shot at Cravath and firms of their ilk? Worth a bid as my ultimate reach?

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Veyron
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Veyron » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Any shot at Cravath and firms of their ilk? Worth a bid as my ultimate reach?


Very little shot at V10 except for Skadden which isn't actually super selective (see what I mean about rank being silly). Weil too maybe.

And I didn't say that V20 was likely, just possible.

Edit: Poor bastard doesn't even realize that most truly elite firms like Boise or W&C DC aren't even in the V10 or, like Susman, aren't ranked at all.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:51 pm

Veyron wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Any shot at Cravath and firms of their ilk? Worth a bid as my ultimate reach?


Very little shot at V10 except for Skadden which isn't actually super selective (see what I mean about rank being silly). Weil too maybe.

And I didn't say that V20 was likely, just possible.

Edit: Poor bastard doesn't even realize that most truly elite firms like Boise or W&C DC aren't even in the V10 or, like Susman, aren't ranked at all.


Boise ≠ elite, and is certainly less selective than Cov DC, Wilmer DC, etc. And, I'm not sure if I would toss in a plaintiff's lit boutique (Susman) - they're a very different sort of firm.

Anonymous User
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:55 pm

The OP's grades are no higher than median. Not sure why people are saying otherwise. Should be fine for OCI though. - Penn 3L.

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Veyron
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Veyron » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Veyron wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Any shot at Cravath and firms of their ilk? Worth a bid as my ultimate reach?


Very little shot at V10 except for Skadden which isn't actually super selective (see what I mean about rank being silly). Weil too maybe.

And I didn't say that V20 was likely, just possible.

Edit: Poor bastard doesn't even realize that most truly elite firms like Boise or W&C DC aren't even in the V10 or, like Susman, aren't ranked at all.


Boise ≠ elite, and is certainly less selective than Cov DC, Wilmer DC, etc. And, I'm not sure if I would toss in a plaintiff's lit boutique (Susman) - they're a very different sort of firm.


Cov DC and Wilmer DC are also top-notch but to say that Boies is not elite is just insane. Take a quick peek at the grade distribution of the kids they take. If you need further proof, I submit to you:

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/12/associat ... s-cravath/

A selected quote "To sharpen the point even more, we hear that bonuses just for the class of 2010 are averaging around $65,000. That’s $65K at Boies versus $7,500 at Cravath."
Last edited by Veyron on Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:01 am, edited 3 times in total.

r6_philly
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby r6_philly » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:The OP's grades are no higher than median. Not sure why people are saying otherwise. Should be fine for OCI though. - Penn 3L.


How do you know the median, so authoritatively. Not sure you why you are saying otherwise. Not sure why you would wonder out aloud about other people and not offer proof of your own.

Anonymous User
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:59 pm

r6_philly wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The OP's grades are no higher than median. Not sure why people are saying otherwise. Should be fine for OCI though. - Penn 3L.


OP is above median.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:59 pm

r6_philly wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The OP's grades are no higher than median. Not sure why people are saying otherwise. Should be fine for OCI though. - Penn 3L.


How do you know the median, so authoritatively. Not sure you why you are saying otherwise. Not sure why you would wonder out aloud about other people and not offer proof of your own.


Because I know that they curve to a B+ median, and I've seen the grade distributions myself. It isn't rocket science.

Anonymous User
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The OP's grades are no higher than median. Not sure why people are saying otherwise. Should be fine for OCI though. - Penn 3L.


OP is above median.


No they aren't.

Anonymous User
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:02 am

-
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

r6_philly
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby r6_philly » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:04 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Median is between B+B+B+B+ B+B+B+B+ and B+B+B+B+ B+B+B+B OP has the equivalent of A-B+B+B+ B+B+B+B+


I didn't know 3Ls served as Dean of Registrar.

Anonymous User
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:05 am

Anonymous User wrote:Do they just use an LSAC type scale and plug everything in?
A = 4.0
A- = 3.7
B+ = 3.3
B = 3.0
and so on?

Is this grading scale somewhat accurate for Penn? Is 3.3 median?

r6_philly
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby r6_philly » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:05 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Because I know that they curve to a B+ median, and I've seen the grade distributions myself. It isn't rocket science.


Grade distribution per class != class distribution. Sorry you can't understand science that's not quite complicated as rocket science.




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