Where do I stand at Penn?

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Anonymous User
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:45 pm

Aw damn, I went from being all happy and thinking that I was actually above median, to now thinking that I might be below :| Hopefully employers have as tough a time figuring out Penn's secret grade formulas as we all do.

HeavenWood
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby HeavenWood » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Aw damn, I went from being all happy and thinking that I was actually above median, to now thinking that I might be below :| Hopefully employers have as tough a time figuring out Penn's secret grade formulas as we all do.

Given how broad the curve is, there isn't a distinguishable difference between slightly above and slightly below median. If you're hovering around a B+ average, you'll be in very good shape.

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Veyron
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Veyron » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:02 am

Anonymous User wrote:Aw damn, I went from being all happy and thinking that I was actually above median, to now thinking that I might be below :| Hopefully employers have as tough a time figuring out Penn's secret grade formulas as we all do.


Well, all I can say is that whatever your rank is, people with that slate of grades from our year got jobs at some bomb-ass firms.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:56 pm

New Anonymous Poster also curious about solving the Penn Law distribution mystery. Could someone better at distributions/more knowledgeable about Penn figure this one out for me?

6 core classes: B, B+, A-, A-, A-, A
2 electives: B, A

So, ~3.55. From reading the thread, this sounds like it's around 33%-25%? Or is the range lower/higher?

Just trying to figure it out for curiosity's sake. Also, congrats to that other poster's group above with all 3.7s.

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OutCold
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby OutCold » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:02 pm

3.55 is around 25%.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:39 pm

OutCold wrote:3.55 is around 25%.


That's about right.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:43 am

OutCold wrote:3.55 is around 25%.


Same Poster with the 3.55. Is 25% the middle of the possible range? So, e.g., 30%-20%?

I know it doesn't matter too much, but again, it's for curiosity's sake.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:11 am

Those who did OCI last year: I have a little over a 3.6, but one of those grades is a B-. My next lowest grade is a single B+. How will firms treat that outlier?

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby PennBull » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:13 am

Anonymous User wrote:Those who did OCI last year: I have a little over a 3.6, but one of those grades is a B-. My next lowest grade is a single B+. How will firms treat that outlier?


viewtopic.php?f=23&t=186243

Your B-minus doesn't matter. Enjoy BigLaw.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby OutCold » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:32 am

Anonymous User wrote:
OutCold wrote:3.55 is around 25%.


Same Poster with the 3.55. Is 25% the middle of the possible range? So, e.g., 30%-20%?

I know it doesn't matter too much, but again, it's for curiosity's sake.


It's about spot on with the assumed GPA values and a consistent curve (24ish%). It's irrelevant though. Either employers will compute it this way or they will simply eyeball your grades with an idea of the grades they've traditionally looked for.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:42 am

OutCold wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
OutCold wrote:3.55 is around 25%.


Same Poster with the 3.55. Is 25% the middle of the possible range? So, e.g., 30%-20%?

I know it doesn't matter too much, but again, it's for curiosity's sake.


It's about spot on with the assumed GPA values and a consistent curve (24ish%). It's irrelevant though. Either employers will compute it this way or they will simply eyeball your grades with an idea of the grades they've traditionally looked for.


Okay thanks a bunch. I know the exact number is not imperative for employment strategy or anything, it's all just curiosity on my end. I wonder if this method actually does give Penn kids an advantage.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:
OutCold wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
OutCold wrote:3.55 is around 25%.


Same Poster with the 3.55. Is 25% the middle of the possible range? So, e.g., 30%-20%?

I know it doesn't matter too much, but again, it's for curiosity's sake.


It's about spot on with the assumed GPA values and a consistent curve (24ish%). It's irrelevant though. Either employers will compute it this way or they will simply eyeball your grades with an idea of the grades they've traditionally looked for.


Okay thanks a bunch. I know the exact number is not imperative for employment strategy or anything, it's all just curiosity on my end. I wonder if this method actually does give Penn kids an advantage.

It essentially forces employers to evaluate students in bands. Top 40% grades look very similar to top 60% grades. Beyond those points, the slope of the curve starts to steepen a bit.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby PennBull » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:18 am

HeavenWood wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Okay thanks a bunch. I know the exact number is not imperative for employment strategy or anything, it's all just curiosity on my end. I wonder if this method actually does give Penn kids an advantage.

It essentially forces employers to evaluate students in bands. Top 40% grades look very similar to top 60% grades. Beyond those points, the slope of the curve starts to steepen a bit.


The thing I do love about Penn is that OCI is bid-lottery only, no grade prescreening. If you get the interview from the lottery, they're basically forced to give you 30 minutes to speak your piece. I know for a vast majority of "reach" situations it won't matter, but I like to think that in more than a few situations somebody got a callback/offer when they wouldn't have even been given a shot otherwise.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:27 am

PennBull wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Okay thanks a bunch. I know the exact number is not imperative for employment strategy or anything, it's all just curiosity on my end. I wonder if this method actually does give Penn kids an advantage.

It essentially forces employers to evaluate students in bands. Top 40% grades look very similar to top 60% grades. Beyond those points, the slope of the curve starts to steepen a bit.


The thing I do love about Penn is that OCI is bid-lottery only, no grade prescreening. If you get the interview from the lottery, they're basically forced to give you 30 minutes to speak your piece. I know for a vast majority of "reach" situations it won't matter, but I like to think that in more than a few situations somebody got a callback/offer when they wouldn't have even been given a shot otherwise.

This is true. I can't imagine many "miracles" barring extenuating circumstances (eg, URM status, strong work experience, unique life story, etc) but I'd think it would help if you're at/modestly below the traditional "margins."

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Veyron
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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Veyron » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:16 pm

I think you guys pretty dramatically undervalue the Penn degree. People who can interview extremely well hit way above their league at OCI. Nothing will help you though if you have ho-hum grades and interview skills.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:43 pm

I ran the numbers and I'm looking at a 3.43. Am I basically just above median or is that high enough that I can say I'm in the top third?

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I ran the numbers and I'm looking at a 3.43. Am I basically just above median or is that high enough that I can say I'm in the top third?

What scale are you using to run the numbers?

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I ran the numbers and I'm looking at a 3.43. Am I basically just above median or is that high enough that I can say I'm in the top third?

What scale are you using to run the numbers?


A=4.0, A- = 3.7, B+ = 3.3, B = 3.0, etc. Is that not right?

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby WhirledWorld » Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:58 pm

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Last edited by WhirledWorld on Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:54 pm

What about a 1L SA associate with a significant grade drop but still above median overall?

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I ran the numbers and I'm looking at a 3.43. Am I basically just above median or is that high enough that I can say I'm in the top third?

What scale are you using to run the numbers?


A=4.0, A- = 3.7, B+ = 3.3, B = 3.0, etc. Is that not right?


Well I guess different employers are probably going to have slightly different methods of calculation. For example, at my UG, the scale was:

A+=4.33, A=4.0, A-=3.66, B+=3.33, B=3.0, B-=2.66, etc.

I suppose one relevant bit of information would be what scale/weighting system is used when ranking people for law review purposes. Like, would an A+ count more than an A? Assuming something like a regular grading scale, I would imagine that a B+ would be weighted at a 3.33, and an A- at a 3.66, since a 3.3/3.7 split magnifies the difference between the two grades quite significantly than 3.33/3.66.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:17 am

I realize that this may be difficult to pinpoint. Your best class distribution guess on how many A+, A, A-, B+, B, B-, C.

Let ‘er rip. Thx.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby r6_philly » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:50 am

Anonymous User wrote:I realize that this may be difficult to pinpoint. Your best class distribution guess on how many A+, A, A-, B+, B, B-, C.

Let ‘er rip. Thx.


If you go to Penn, go to registrar and look for yourself.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby r6_philly » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:51 am

Anonymous User wrote:What about a 1L SA associate with a significant grade drop but still above median overall?


What's significant? I think it also depends on how much they liked you. The offer is probably yours to lose. The drop is a negative, and presumably you have shown some positives, so they have to balance it and make a call.

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Re: Where do I stand at Penn?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:57 am

FWIW, I just graduated from Penn last month with a 3.57 and did NOT get latin honors (so not in top 25%). That said, I think the cutoffs get higher after 2L and 3L, so a 3.57 might be w/in top 25% for 1Ls.




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